"RideKC Next" transit system redesign

[normalthings]

Ordinance 210406

Why is the city looking to contract out employee bus service at the airport.

This seems like the kind of thing that would be part of a bus system redesign.

Its the shuttle bus from the employee parking lot on north Mexico City Ave. to the terminals.........

Why would/should kcata operate parking lot shuttles?

[flyingember]

Ordinance 210406

Why is the city looking to contract out employee bus service at the airport.

This seems like the kind of thing that would be part of a bus system redesign.

Its the shuttle bus from the employee parking lot on north Mexico City Ave. to the terminals.........

Why would/should kcata operate parking lot shuttles?

Economy of scale.
The more the city utilizes a single service the lower the cost per rider is for the taxpayers across the entire system.

This is a $820k per year contract. The needed amount for free bus service system wide was $4.8 million.. It’s aviation money so the usage is controlled, and I can’t say if the ATA didn’t try for the contract, I would sure hope so.

[normalthings]

Ordinance 210406

Why is the city looking to contract out employee bus service at the airport.

This seems like the kind of thing that would be part of a bus system redesign.

Its the shuttle bus from the employee parking lot on north Mexico City Ave. to the terminals.........

Why would/should kcata operate parking lot shuttles?

Economy of scale.
The more the city utilizes a single service the lower the cost per rider is for the taxpayers across the entire system.

The contract is for $69646 per month
That’s equal to 1392 monthly bus passes.

I am not really sure what you are advocating for? This system has existed for years (and under the same contractor as far as I remember)

KCATA operating a shuttle between employee parking lots and terminal makes little sense to me. KCATA replacing every employee's car with a bus ticket makes 0.

One benefit of the new terminal is that employees will no longer need to be shuttled into work. Terminal B garage will be dedicated to employee parking.
This issue will soon be resolved.

[flyingember]

One benefit of the new terminal is that employees will no longer need to be shuttled into work. Terminal B garage will be dedicated to employee parking.
This issue will soon be resolved.

It’s a four year contract. The new terminal opens in two years.

I don’t think they’re canceling the employee shuttle when the new terminal opens.

Reading the ordinance really matters, it looks silly to make statements that contradict it.

[normalthings]

One benefit of the new terminal is that employees will no longer need to be shuttled into work. Terminal B garage will be dedicated to employee parking.
This issue will soon be resolved.

It’s a four year contract. The new terminal opens in two years.

I don’t think they’re canceling the employee shuttle when the new terminal opens.

Reading the ordinance really matters, it looks silly to make statements that contradict it.

Terminal B garage will not immediately be available for employee parking. Once new terminal opens, Terminals B becomes a construction site (funding permitted). The plan is absolutely to convert B garage to employee parking and have employees walk as soon as possible.

[DaveKCMO]

Another round of public outreach begins Monday with detailed maps and schedules. Customers will be able to schedule a "concierge" appointment so staff can walk them through customized trip planning (rather than a big public meeting where you look at general route info). In-person appointments will occur at East Village Transit Center (which will open generally to the public this summer). Transit app will have both new and old schedules built into to the app so you can compare before and after using the same trip plan.

http://ridekcnext.org/

[shaffe]

I know nobody gives a shit about transit in the suburbs but to hell with anybody living in the northland, amirite?

[DaveKCMO]

I know nobody gives a shit about transit in the suburbs but to hell with anybody living in the northland, amirite?

There will be a major project announced soon that will modernize and expand the existing RideKC Flex services in the Northland. It doesn't make a lot of sense to continue running traditional bus service where the population and job density is low and there's very little infrastructure to support walking or biking to bus stops.

The bus stops that do remain will be improved.

But as I've stated elsewhere many times, the biggest root cause for lack of service in the Northland is enclave communities that don't contribute to the cost of service. The highest potential route -- North Oak -- is fully paid for by KCMO even though most of the ridership is in Gladstone and NKC.

[flyingember]

I know nobody gives a shit about transit in the suburbs but to hell with anybody living in the northland, amirite?

It doesn't make a lot of sense to continue running traditional bus service where the population and job density is low and there's very little infrastructure to support walking or biking to bus stops.

The density of the northland is as high, if not higher, than parts of south KC with MAX service today and some areas are as dense as the east side.

http://worldmap.harvard.edu/data/geonod ... y_2010_Xnc

It's a population that's just never been induced to ride the bus with equal service.

I can go months without seeing a bus on N. Oak on the weekend.

If density was the reason then NKC would have four bus lines running every 20 minutes, 7 days a week with bus routes stopping at their northern/eastern city limits. Having lines continue into this community would easily be a 20% increase in jobs access over downtown.

[shaffe]

There will be a major project announced soon that will modernize and expand the existing RideKC Flex services in the Northland. It doesn't make a lot of sense to continue running traditional bus service where the population and job density is low and there's very little infrastructure to support walking or biking to bus stops.

The bus stops that do remain will be improved.

But as I've stated elsewhere many times, the biggest root cause for lack of service in the Northland is enclave communities that don't contribute to the cost of service. The highest potential route -- North Oak -- is fully paid for by KCMO even though most of the ridership is in Gladstone and NKC.

I'm glad that there's at least a plan to expand flex service, but I still find it a gross underservice that the northland has one maybe east-west route and that one maybe route is clear up at 152. I think 152 is a great east-west connector but a second major east-west route along 64th-68th-72nd from 9 highway to Brighton would be good too. Combine that with a north-south line on Brighton itself and that map looks a heck of a lot better with just two routes added.

I take your point about infrastructure not being there to access the routes and that, too, should be improved. That seems like a bit of a chicken and egg excuse to me though. Also, if KCMO is in that big of a bind that they can't cover 1-2 bus lines that run though Gladstone and NKC (or Parkville or Riverside) then maybe they should either reevaluate their transit budgeting or reach out to those municipalities for a small subsidy. I don't know how much it costs to administer a bus route but it can't be that much.

Edit: Also the zero routes more frequent than 60 minutes kind of sucks ass too. Hard to blame people in the northland for not utilizing the bus with a crappy plan like this.

[DaveKCMO]

NKC and Gladstone have been asked to contribute more to bus service that runs through their communities on KCMO's dime. NKC's total contribution to the system is just under $400K annually, but is directed towards flex and fixed routes other than North Oak (which is helpful to other parts of KCMO, just not a lot of it).

And it's not like the city has significantly increased the annual KCATA contract even after directing the elimination of fares so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

2021 - 60,548,109.00
2020 - 57,580,000.00
2019 - 57,618,700.00
2018 - 58,392,317.00

A daily bus route running every hour is about $1 million a year in direct cost (not including overhead). A MAX route is about $4-5 million. As you can see this doesn't get you far, especially if you have to use some of that money to match federal grants. Add to that the annual labor increases and health care costs and then tell me what you'd cut elsewhere to add less-productive suburban services. That's the actual dilemma and not some built-in Northland bias (which can be confirmed by comparing comparable suburban levels of service to the east and south).

That's why regional funding is my answer to everything. If the entirety of Platte and Clay counties were contributing -- even just an 1/8-cent! -- adding more suburban service at the direction of those governing bodies to the existing system is a lot easier. It's the same for East Jack, Johnson, and Wyandotte -- all of which have massive coverage gaps.

[shaffe]

I think we have much common ground, Dave. I just hate to see such significant swaths of the city largely ignored, and that goes as you said for East Jack, Johnson, and Wyandotte too. I will admit I don't have an immediate answer to what should be cut to add to the northland, but I think a (relatively) cheap investment would be to add one more E-W connector a little further south, add one more N-S arterial, and make the N-S routes 30 minute headways. Granted, that's probably $5 million more which is 8% of the entire budget so the answer, as it almost always is, is more money. If and when a regional transit tax see a ballot this is one northlander who is a reliable 'yes' vote.

[alejandro46]

This may be a bad take, but I don't think Northland bus will ever work until taxes are county wide, the focus on highest density direct routes supplemented with limited, additional cost flex services. I agree we need a bus system, but I would rather have funding go to streetcar expansion that would incentivze people to move to denser areas (NKC, North Oak) than a non functional bus system trying to do too much in too many places.

[DaveKCMO]

This may be a bad take... but I would rather have funding go to streetcar expansion that would incentivze people to move to denser areas (NKC, North Oak) than a non functional bus system trying to do too much in too many places.

That is indeed a bad take and probably a violation under Title VI of the Civil Rights Act to take money away from buses that may serve people of color to build and operate new rail lines that will attract "choice" (white) riders.

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj ... 07_marjon/
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html

Every time we make significant changes to bus service we have to undergo a Title VI analysis. RideKC Next passed the bar set by the feds and that's about all there is to this part of the conversation.

[alejandro46]

This may be a bad take... but I would rather have funding go to streetcar expansion that would incentivze people to move to denser areas (NKC, North Oak) than a non functional bus system trying to do too much in too many places.

That is indeed a bad take and probably a violation under Title VI of the Civil Rights Act to take money away from buses that may serve people of color to build and operate new rail lines that will attract "choice" (white) riders.

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj ... 07_marjon/
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html

Every time we make significant changes to bus service we have to undergo a Title VI analysis. RideKC Next passed the bar set by the feds and that's about all there is to this part of the conversation.

Nobody is discriminated because everybody gets equally slow service. What racial groups in the northland are being discriminated against if we have fewer and more frequent routes? Again,talking about Northland only. Not the rest of the city.

[beautyfromashes]

I guess if that’s a bad take, count me on the wrong side too. Why should we all be paying to expand Northland bus transit when they haven’t paid one penny for the streetcar?

[DaveKCMO]

I thought you were talking in general, not specific to the Northland. But there are pockets of low income households and low or no access to cars in the Northland.

[KCPowercat]

I like the main max changes especially the long trip as I ha e some friends in SKC I could use.

[DaveKCMO]

Starting today, you can use Transit app to compare the old and new schedules for any route. Enable the "Network Preview", plan a trip, then see the same route schedules for today and starting October 3.

https://ridekc.org/bulletins/transit-pr ... idekc-next

Also, you can request a concierge-style session with KCATA staff and get personal trip planning assistance comparing the new and old schedules.

https://ridekc.org/bulletins/ridekc-next-info

[flyingember]

I guess if that’s a bad take, count me on the wrong side too. Why should we all be paying to expand Northland bus transit when they haven’t paid one penny for the streetcar?

Other than NKC voting yes for rail way back in 2009, you mean.