We are getting a new airport!!!

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FangKC
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by FangKC »

KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:38 pm
I at first had issues with no covered tunnel from garage to terminal but it's pretty common at all airports and seems fine. If it's raining when you are parking for a departure just go down to the bottom level and walk across
I'm not worried about weather. I'm mostly worried about children. I have just used airports with crosswalks like that, and people always seem to always be getting hit in them. I know it was an issue at LaGuardia and Newark in the NYC metro. Not a problem at JFK. I don't know how many times I saw people almost hit in crosswalks there. Especially when you have vans or buses in one lane blocking lines of view and another driver doesn't see the pedestrian crossing. You also have kids darting ahead of their parents out into traffic without looking. It's just a stupid thing to do if you are building from new not to design it better, so travelers don't have to walk through traffic lanes. Especially in congested areas where there is noise. People are also stressed and tired from traveling and not often alert. Dumb. Dumb.

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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by horizons82 »

Most of the airports I’ve been at with crosswalks have some sort of signal at at least one intersection, either HAWK; traditional red-green; or a human crossing guard.

I would hope edgemoor would have the foresight to install a signal on at least the lower level, but who knows.

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FangKC
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by FangKC »

One would hope. However even stop lights aren't completely effective because even in a green light, cars might not be able to stop in time if some kid runs in front of them in the crosswalk.

This is LaGuardia.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7679757 ... 6656?hl=en

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.768212 ... 656?hl=en

See that green structure? During a green light, a kid could run from behind it and be hit by a vehicle. If you don't think a kid could do that, you apparently have never had kids that pull way from a parent's hand, or ignore parents' orders. Especially if you have more than one child, and are carrying or pulling baggage at the same time.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.769795 ... 6656?hl=en

See the green barricade? Even with a light, a kid could dart out, or an absent-minded traveler could walk right out in front of a vehicle without thinking due to travel fatigue.

The last link should be remedied soon though. I think they are rebuilding that area to have a better setup.

This is Newark.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.690465 ... 8192?hl=en

This last crossing, about 20 years ago, I came out of the terminal at night to find emergency personnel putting an old lady into the ambulance who had walked against the light at got hit because of a line of shuttle vans blocking the view. They still haven't fixed this crossing.

Even with lights, you can see here where parked vans and buses could obscure someone darting out.

My sister used to work at the airport and she said you'd be surprised how many travelers are drunk when they leave the terminal. So there's that too.
Last edited by FangKC on Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

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normalthings
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by normalthings »

FangKC wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:55 pm
One would hope. However even stop lights are completely effective because even in a green light, cars might not be able to stop in time if some kid runs in front of them in the crosswalk.

This is LaGuardia.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7679757 ... 6656?hl=en

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.768212 ... 656?hl=en

See that green structure? During a green light, a kid could run from behind it and be hit by a vehicle. If you don't think a kid could do that, you apparently have never had kids that pull way from a parent's hand, or ignore parents' orders. Especially if you have more than one child, and are carrying or pulling baggage at the same time.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.769795 ... 6656?hl=en

See the green barricade? Even with a light, a kid could dart out, or an absent-minded traveler could walk right out in front of a vehicle without thinking due to travel fatigue.

The last link should be remedied soon though. I think they are rebuilding that area to have a better setup.

This is Newark.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.690465 ... 8192?hl=en

This last crossing, about 20 years ago, I came out of the terminal at night to find emergency personnel putting an old lady into the ambulance who had walked against the light at got hit because of a line of shuttle vans blocking the view. They still haven't fixed this crossing.

Even with lights, you can see here where parked vans and buses could obsure someone darting out.

My sister used to work at the airport and she said you'd be surprised how many travelers are drunk when they leave the terminal. So there's that too.
Putting the commercial curbs in the garage will go a long way to improve arrivals level pedestrian safety. Arriving at STL T2, one has to navigate speeding buses and shuttles before reaching the Uber/Personal curb.

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Highlander
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by Highlander »

FangKC wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:55 pm
One would hope. However even stop lights are completely effective because even in a green light, cars might not be able to stop in time if some kid runs in front of them in the crosswalk.

This is LaGuardia.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7679757 ... 6656?hl=en

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.768212 ... 656?hl=en

See that green structure? During a green light, a kid could run from behind it and be hit by a vehicle. If you don't think a kid could do that, you apparently have never had kids that pull way from a parent's hand, or ignore parents' orders. Especially if you have more than one child, and are carrying or pulling baggage at the same time.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.769795 ... 6656?hl=en

See the green barricade? Even with a light, a kid could dart out, or an absent-minded traveler could walk right out in front of a vehicle without thinking due to travel fatigue.

The last link should be remedied soon though. I think they are rebuilding that area to have a better setup.

This is Newark.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.690465 ... 8192?hl=en

This last crossing, about 20 years ago, I came out of the terminal at night to find emergency personnel putting an old lady into the ambulance who had walked against the light at got hit because of a line of shuttle vans blocking the view. They still haven't fixed this crossing.

Even with lights, you can see here where parked vans and buses could obsure someone darting out.

My sister used to work at the airport and she said you'd be surprised how many travelers are drunk when they leave the terminal. So there's that too.
Good points. Midwesterners have a difficult time accepting that cars should not have the right away. I hate having to make eye contact with drivers before crossing pedestrian crosswalks. On both coasts, if a pedestrian is at the crosswalk, drivers generally stop. This will take a bit of getting use to for Kansas Citians dropping off and picking up people at the airport. I would much prefer a tunnel or pedestrian overpass. I was always grateful for that in Houston (a terrible place for pedestrians).

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FangKC
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by FangKC »

People in Kansas City also tend to drive too fast on city streets because they don't have to contend with a lot of pedestrians and bikes.

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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by WoodDraw »

It's interesting jedunn won the bid too. It'll be interesting who wins the competitive bids.

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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat »

From city staff report.
The plan is designed to accommodate bus, bus rapid transit, ride-sharing, taxi and even light rail. Persons arriving and departing the airport will be doing so using one of these modes and will not be arriving on foot or bike both due to its relative isolation and due to the functionality of airports themselves. As a result, the plan does not provide for bicycle parking. Pedestrian use is limited to crossing between the garage and terminal. Four crossings are proposed on each level. Staff would like to continue to work with designers to ensure the safety and comfort of these crossings is maximized.
Really we can't plan for ANY bike parking? how about workers arriving by bus that may have a bike even if via bus? Some fliers could arrive by bike.

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normalthings
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by normalthings »

KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:25 pm
From city staff report.
The plan is designed to accommodate bus, bus rapid transit, ride-sharing, taxi and even light rail. Persons arriving and departing the airport will be doing so using one of these modes and will not be arriving on foot or bike both due to its relative isolation and due to the functionality of airports themselves. As a result, the plan does not provide for bicycle parking. Pedestrian use is limited to crossing between the garage and terminal. Four crossings are proposed on each level. Staff would like to continue to work with designers to ensure the safety and comfort of these crossings is maximized.
Really we can't plan for ANY bike parking? how about workers arriving by bus that may have a bike even if via bus? Some fliers could arrive by bike.
They should think about adding it to the arrivals level

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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember »

KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:25 pm
Some fliers could arrive by bike.
Not necessarily even by bike.

They could ride their bike to the bus and use that to get to the airport.

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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by beautyfromashes »

flyingember wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:22 am
KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:25 pm
Some fliers could arrive by bike.
Not necessarily even by bike.

They could ride their bike to the bus and use that to get to the airport.
Really doubtful. I’ve never seen anyone riding a bike with a suitcase on their back. Bike racks would likely never be used.

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smh
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by smh »

beautyfromashes wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:16 am
flyingember wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:22 am
KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:25 pm
Some fliers could arrive by bike.
Not necessarily even by bike.

They could ride their bike to the bus and use that to get to the airport.
Really doubtful. I’ve never seen anyone riding a bike with a suitcase on their back. Bike racks would likely never be used.
I flew last weekend with only a backpack.

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normalthings
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by normalthings »

beautyfromashes wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:16 am
flyingember wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:22 am
KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:25 pm
Some fliers could arrive by bike.
Not necessarily even by bike.

They could ride their bike to the bus and use that to get to the airport.
Really doubtful. I’ve never seen anyone riding a bike with a suitcase on their back. Bike racks would likely never be used.
The number of passengers who would bring a bicycle to the airport is likely close to zero. However, I think it is reasonable to say that some workers would if given the choice. Maybe they could include bike parking under the employee garage or in public but more employee-centered area.

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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by earthling »

smh wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:18 am
beautyfromashes wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:16 am
flyingember wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:22 am


Not necessarily even by bike.

They could ride their bike to the bus and use that to get to the airport.
Really doubtful. I’ve never seen anyone riding a bike with a suitcase on their back. Bike racks would likely never be used.
I flew last weekend with only a backpack.
^I do that quite a bit, more often than not lately. So does my younger brother. New large backpacks are designed for this. If we get free fare bus going and it runs a bit more often to airport, biking may become more integrated.

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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember »

In case anyone was wondering if it's easy to find a suitcase sized backpack somewhere accessible by transit, you can buy them on the Plaza

This bag is 33 liters
https://www.osprey.com/us/en/product/ta ... 3_142.html

This suitcase is 39.8 liters
https://www.awaytravel.com/suitcases/ca ... qXEALw_wcB

There's laptop bags that hang off a bike so add that and you have two bags and can travel entirely by bike.

I did a week with two classic backpacks about this size. I had two laptops otherwise I could have packed lighter.


This one needs to be checked luggage, but it's ~twice the size at 70 liters and the design looks decently professional. You have to be smart with packing because it's harder to lay clothing flat, but you could pack for a week with just this
https://www.osprey.com/us/en/product/ar ... 0_198.html

I wouldn't consider just biking to the airport quite yet but bike + bus is very doable.

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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by KCPowercat »

Just put in some bike racks. It's that simple.

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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember »

KCPowercat wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:50 am
Just put in some bike racks. It's that simple.
City code requires all new development and renovations to put in a certain number of bike racks indoors and outdoors based on the square footage of the building, covered for employees and outdoor for the public.

So where do we draw the line on how many to install? How are the bikes secured from theft? Is there a cost to parking a bike? Does this mean moving transit access and what's that mean for the project design?

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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by mean »

I'd say put in one. Then if it ever gets used, which it won't, consider yourself lucky. Then in the particularly unlikely event that it is in use and some other person shows up with a bike, tell them they win the most improbable flyer award and name the airport after them.

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smh
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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by smh »

Maybe just do what Portland is doing? Surely we can spend $1,000 on some bike racks. I'd pay $1,000 for the symbolic value alone.

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Re: We are getting a new airport!!!

Post by flyingember »

smh wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:03 am
Maybe just do what Portland is doing? Surely we can spend $1,000 on some bike racks. I'd pay $1,000 for the symbolic value alone.
Overland Park recently spend $9270 for 37 racks. So it's a minimum of about $250 per.

$1000 would get you 2-3 racks.

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