Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

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beautyfromashes
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Re: Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

Post by beautyfromashes »

DaveKCMO wrote:
beautyfromashes wrote:
pash wrote:So you'd be paying substantially less for about the same utility.
I'd like to hear from Dave that the cost will likely be less for a resident in the newly proposed district.
substantially less as in the total cost, not the assessments or sales tax. a smaller district along main would probably cover the entire cost of that extension and score better for federal funding than the august plan.
Well, of course it's a 'substantially less total cost', you've cut off a huge amount of line! But, if it's not a smaller cost per resident in the district, then I might be out. I would be paying the same and getting a much smaller amount of line/places that I can go while you're also charging nothing for other residents who will be using the line. A line on Main is NOT just for residents on Main.
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Re: Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

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Re: Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

Post by DaveKCMO »

beautyfromashes wrote:Well, of course it's a 'substantially less total cost', you've cut off a huge amount of line! But, if it's not a smaller cost per resident in the district, then I might be out. I would be paying the same and getting a much smaller amount of line/places that I can go while you're also charging nothing for other residents who will be using the line. A line on Main is NOT just for residents on Main.
wow. that's petty.
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Re: Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

Post by mykn »

Dave,

Wouldn't assessments be less for a Main St TDD if there was no Eastbound lines (since if they were built, they would be subsidized by Main St) than if the Aug 5th plan had passed? If not, what is the reason?
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Re: Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

Post by DaveKCMO »

mykn wrote:Dave,

Wouldn't assessments be less for a Main St TDD if there was no Eastbound lines (since if they were built, they would be subsidized by Main St) than if the Aug 5th plan had passed? If not, what is the reason?
probably not.

shit's expensive.
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Re: Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

Post by mykn »

DaveKCMO wrote:
mykn wrote:Dave,

Wouldn't assessments be less for a Main St TDD if there was no Eastbound lines (since if they were built, they would be subsidized by Main St) than if the Aug 5th plan had passed? If not, what is the reason?
probably not.

shit's expensive.
True.dat

So is it a case of overcollecting like pash says? If not, how were the two eastbound lines able to be paid for? I think I'm a little confused :)
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Re: Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

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Last edited by pash on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

Post by mykn »

pash wrote: I think Dave means that Main Streeters would likely pay the same tax rates, but fewer dollars in the end. Really, it seems like it should be possible to set things up so that Main Street pays lower rates than the rates that were propsed under the failed plan, so long as the TDD isn't set up to over-collect.
Good call
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Re: Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

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There just comes a point where you start to feel like you're being taken advantage of. Brookside made a stink, so they got let out of having to pitch in. East Side voted against it, so they don't have to either. Main St. voted for it, so let's pile all the cost on their back. To not realize that fact seems rather shortsighted. To call it 'petty'.... no words.
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Re: Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

Post by DaveKCMO »

beautyfromashes wrote:There just comes a point where you start to feel like you're being taken advantage of. Brookside made a stink, so they got let out of having to pitch in. East Side voted against it, so they don't have to either. Main St. voted for it, so let's pile all the cost on their back. To not realize that fact seems rather shortsighted. To call it 'petty'.... no words.
if not having a larger pool contribute is your issue, you should never vote for a TDD (or any special district -- including CIDs -- for that matter). generally speaking, you vote yes because it's a good idea and you want to see the system expand.
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Re: Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

Post by beautyfromashes »

DaveKCMO wrote: if not having a larger pool contribute is your issue, you should never vote for a TDD (or any special district -- including CIDs -- for that matter). generally speaking, you vote yes because it's a good idea and you want to see the system expand.
You're going to have problems with this election. Good luck!
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Re: Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

Post by DaveKCMO »

beautyfromashes wrote:
DaveKCMO wrote: if not having a larger pool contribute is your issue, you should never vote for a TDD (or any special district -- including CIDs -- for that matter). generally speaking, you vote yes because it's a good idea and you want to see the system expand.
You're going to have problems with this election. Good luck!
sounds like you were a no, based on this revised scenario. not sure i could have swayed you anyway. conversely, there are likely plenty of voters who will say "wow, i don't have to subsidize two other extensions? yes, please."
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Re: Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

beautyfromashes wrote:There just comes a point where you start to feel like you're being taken advantage of. Brookside made a stink, so they got let out of having to pitch in. East Side voted against it, so they don't have to either. Main St. voted for it, so let's pile all the cost on their back. To not realize that fact seems rather shortsighted. To call it 'petty'.... no words.
If you want Brookside involved in the election you would need to extend the line past the Plaza down to at least 63rd St or even 75th. That just drives up the cost of construction. It does give you move taxpayers but also more voters who vote No, and enough of them, and the election fails.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

Post by beautyfromashes »

DaveKCMO wrote:
beautyfromashes wrote:
DaveKCMO wrote: if not having a larger pool contribute is your issue, you should never vote for a TDD (or any special district -- including CIDs -- for that matter). generally speaking, you vote yes because it's a good idea and you want to see the system expand.
You're going to have problems with this election. Good luck!
sounds like you were a no, based on this revised scenario. not sure i could have swayed you anyway. conversely, there are likely plenty of voters who will say "wow, i don't have to subsidize two other extensions? yes, please."
I'm a no because I AM subsidizing these other extensions, they just aren't going to be there. The price is the same but I'm getting less. And you're wrong, I was one of the biggest promoters of the last campaign. I went door to door to sell it, but this needs to be a community plan, not just on the backs of a few neighborhoods.
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Re: Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

Post by beautyfromashes »

aknowledgeableperson wrote:
beautyfromashes wrote:There just comes a point where you start to feel like you're being taken advantage of. Brookside made a stink, so they got let out of having to pitch in. East Side voted against it, so they don't have to either. Main St. voted for it, so let's pile all the cost on their back. To not realize that fact seems rather shortsighted. To call it 'petty'.... no words.
If you want Brookside involved in the election you would need to extend the line past the Plaza down to at least 63rd St or even 75th. That just drives up the cost of construction. It does give you move taxpayers but also more voters who vote No, and enough of them, and the election fails.

Extending it to 63rd from the original 52nd would be 1 mile.
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Re: Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

Post by DaveKCMO »

i'm not sure the neighborhoods far away from the line agree with you. in fact, they've said so in previous elections.

the neighborhoods directly adjacent to the linwood and independence lines completely rejected the expansion plan that included them. other than simply quit, i'm not sure how else you would suggest getting something actually built.

all that said, there is no comment section on the ballot. :)
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Re: Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

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Re: Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

Post by beautyfromashes »

Why is it hard to understand? Dave said the sales and property tax along Main would be the same as the old plan but the track miles would be more than cut in half. How is that fair? We're going from a good sized system to a glorified starter plan, for the same cost.
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Re: Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

Post by grovester »

If you ever want the system you're referring to you will need to vote yes for the main street extension. Otherwise you will get nothing ever.
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Re: Learning from Phase 2 OR Rising from the Ashes

Post by pash »

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