New Broadway Bridge

Transportation topics in KC
flyingember
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by flyingember »

It's worse than that

If it starts on 670 instead it's arppox 0.75 miles shorter.

So the state has to figure out if they need to change all ~2500 mile marker signs and all the exit signs that change what MM they fall between or if they can keep the status quo and they're just off

and the same for I-35 at about 0.5 miles shorter at another ~1150 signs + exit signs

It's not removing a road, it's the impact on the entire network that goes outwards. It's not a simple project to figure out

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/edit ... tage_card2

Good idea, yes, spend $50m + maintenance on it, that is a hard sell in my humble opinion. Prioritize capping South Loop and removing north loop and bringing 9 to grade.
Kansas City has an opportunity to preserve its history while creating something lasting and new. But it would take a collaborative effort from resourceful stakeholders to pull it off.

Last week, the Missouri Department of Transportation unveiled its renderings of the final design of the new $220 million Buck O’Neil Bridge. Reception to the proposed roadway that connects Kansas City to communities north of the river was lukewarm.

Amenities include biking and pedestrian lanes, features the current bridge sorely lacks. But the bare-bones appearance of the replacement was widely ridiculed, and with good reason.

It’s nothing more than a slab of concrete with guardrails and lighting fixtures, critics argue. At least five non-historic buildings will be demolished, and small business owners will be forced to relocate.

O’Neil personified style and grace. The new bridge lacks flair and character, and does little to honor a man who was the first Black coach in Major League Baseball.

“We will do irreparable damage to the area with this bridge,” said Matt Staub, vice president for the River Market Community Association.

Unfortunately, the basic design — known during the planning stages as the “central alternative” — is final. Construction is scheduled to begin this fall and be completed by late 2024.

But there is still a chance the existing Buck O’Neil Bridge, now scheduled for demolition, might be saved and repurposed, to the benefit of the entire community.

The bridge once known as the Broadway Bridge links U.S. Route 169 to Interstate 35. It is no longer a viable option for daily use by cars and trucks, MoDOT officials say.

The agency is contractually obligated to tear down the structure — but it is willing to work with city officials to preserve it, said Mary Miller, project director for MoDOT. And it should.

Saving the bridge could create an iconic historical asset for the entire region, proponents say. And the possibilities are limitless.

Consider these examples. Downtown Louisville, Kentucky’s Waterfront Park is independently operated and supported by donations. Overlooking the Ohio River near the Indiana-Kentucky border, the sprawling development covers 85 acres of public land.

It features walking and bike paths, as well as restaurants, playgrounds, picnic areas, boat docks, an amphitheater and a connector bridge between the city and southern Indiana.

A combination of public and private money covered the initial $58 million it took to develop the project.

Washington, D.C., officials remain committed to the city’s first elevated public park. The 11th Street Bridge Park will span the Anacostia River and include green space, plazas and a cafe.

The High Line, a raised public park that spans 22 blocks along the west side of Manhattan, is a popular New York City attraction. The park is operated and maintained by a nonprofit group in partnership with the city’s parks and recreation department.

PRIVATE MONEY NEEDED AFTER COVID-19
Shared public spaces benefit everyone’s health. What better way to improve the quality of life in Kansas City than to develop an iconic structure deserving of O’Neil’s name?

Civic leaders must be creative in building a pedestrian- and bike-friendly park that overlooks the Missouri River, urban designers say. A prosaic solution that doesn’t celebrate O’Neil’s passion for life would be a grave misstep.

“Bringing communities together is what Buck O’Neil was about,” said Kevin Cunningham, co-founder of Hoet Landscape Architecture, a Kansas City-based design firm. “Buck was a trailblazer and this is an opportunity for something unique.”

The new bridge will be paid for with a mix of federal, state and local dollars. Taxpayers in Kansas City will cover nearly half of the costs associated with the project.

Saving the current bridge won’t be cheap. Estimates range from $30 to $50 million to repurpose it, and there would likely be ongoing maintenance costs. Kansas City is already facing major budget problems because of the impact of the coronavirus pandemic.

Corporate, civic and philanthropic entities would likely have to step up and donate capital.

Although city officials such as Mayor Quinton Lucas remain committed to keeping the existing bridge for public use, funds are scarce. A communitywide financial effort is needed to complete the makeover.

O’Neil was a Hall of Fame-worthy ballplayer who once led the Negro Leagues in hitting as a player and managed two title-winning Kansas City Monarchs teams.

He would later serve as a scout for the Royals and was one of the game’s greatest ambassadors. An award at the Baseball Hall of Fame is named after him. His wit, charm and storytelling prowess are remembered fondly around the nation.

Preserving and repurposing the existing Buck O’Neil Bridge would create an amenity that benefits all Kansas Citians. We hope civic leaders and their corporate partners are willing to cover the expense of saving the existing bridge named for the Negro Leagues great.

flyingember
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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The city approved $125 million on the new bridge.

If it could come up with $50 million the design wouldn't be so mundane

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by beautyfromashes »

flyingember wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:13 am
The city approved $125 million on the new bridge.

If it could come up with $50 million the design wouldn't be so mundane
Shouldn't have had to pay anything. This is a state responsibility.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by flyingember »

beautyfromashes wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:26 am
flyingember wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:13 am
The city approved $125 million on the new bridge.

If it could come up with $50 million the design wouldn't be so mundane
Shouldn't have had to pay anything. This is a state responsibility.
Then the streetcar shouldn't require a federal match, it's a city responsibility.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by alejandro46 »

beautyfromashes wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:26 am
flyingember wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:13 am
The city approved $125 million on the new bridge.

If it could come up with $50 million the design wouldn't be so mundane
Shouldn't have had to pay anything. This is a state responsibility.
Right, but the state was only willing to pay $40m to rehab the existing bridge. Not defending the crappy MODOT decision making, as I wish they were more of an ally versus an enemy/roadblock, but the argument they weren't willing to do anything is somewhat disingenuous. Last thing we want is a repeat of that Minneapolis bridge collapse, but KCMO rightly decided it was worth finding the money to make a lasting improvement to replace vs rehab, in hopes we can also remove N. Loop too.

I also think removing DT airport is a silly argument (sorry Staubio). This project improves connection to Harlem and that would be a better priority to make flood resistant affordable housing development or a park of some kind there.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by KCPowercat »

Might be able to get 50M in private money for it. Worth exploring

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by normalthings »

NorthLoop (without infill ) could be cheap enough to be paid for by donations and/or a federal grant. Just decommission the thing, hook up the surface level streets to Independence Ave, and fill it in later with development instead of pricey dirt infill.
Last edited by normalthings on Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

moderne
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by moderne »

As is, there is a flooding problem at the west end.

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FangKC
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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alejandro46 wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:27 am
I also think removing DT airport is a silly argument (sorry Staubio). This project improves connection to Harlem and that would be a better priority to make flood resistant affordable housing development or a park of some kind there.
I don't get this fascination with Harlem. Building affordable housing there? Harlem will always be a high-flood risk area. It will only get worse with the extreme weather we've started to experience. I cannot imagine insurance companies underwriting residential housing there. Why anyone would want to deliberately put low-income people in such a risk-prone area is beyond me.

People don't realize how unstable levees can be, and overall, how old a lot of infrastructure is, and how often it fails. For example, the pumps that keep water out of behind the levee. Or when the river is at flood-stage for weeks, and storm drain outlets have to be closed to keep water out from behind the levee. Then a bomb cyclone rain event dumps inches over Kansas City, and those same streams and storm drains can't drain into the Missouri because it's at flood stage. There is flooding in the East Bottoms now when storm drains can't empty into the Missouri.

Remember that a lot of the Katrina flooding in New Orleans occurred because water pumps failed.

The dams on the upper Missouri were at risk of failure just a few years ago. Those dams haven't been rebuilt, or fortified. It doesn't even have to be those. Failure of Milford, Tuttle Creek, Perry, and Clinton Lake dams on the Kansas River would create a huge risk to any downstream levee in Kansas City. Imagine one of those dams failing while the Missouri and Kansas rivers are just inches from over-topping. In 1993, the Missouri was just 18 inches from overtopping the airport levee. Combine that with saturated levees from weeks at flood-stage like we saw in 2011 and 2019.

Any Corps of Engineers person in the KC office would likely tell you that is what keeps them up at night.

1993 Flood.

Image

Image

Image

Image

So tell me, looking at these photos, how many of you would really want to live in Harlem? Sure your apartment might not flood if you were on the third floor, but you might not be able to access your apartment for weeks and months.

In 2019.
The Kansas City District of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers reported this week that the Missouri River has fallen below flood stage for the first time in 279 days, marking an end to the longest declared flooding event in district history.
https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/af ... lood-stage

I wouldn't waste a dollar even creating a park in Harlem. Kansas City can't even maintain neighborhood parks now.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by flyingember »

I would move the levy and put a park in Harlem. We need more land outside the levy system to reduce the impact of flooding.

It could be semi-wild like the existing land outside the levy.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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FangKC wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:17 am

I wouldn't waste a dollar even creating a park in Harlem. Kansas City can't even maintain neighborhood parks now.
First, there is already the roach motel in Harlem that always has people crossing the existing Broadway bridge along the tiny median. "Informal" affordable housing, if you will.

There are ways to build buildings elevated on stilts or to raise the grade overall that would decrease the risk. I'm more saying that why argue that we should shut down the Downtown airport, a productive asset to the city that may be susceptible to the same flood risks as Harlem. The reason KCRAG has this fascination with Harlem is that it's a relatively unknown area, it is located close to downtown but its connectivity is cut off by the railroad and bad pathways along the Oneil bridge. It also used to be a small neighborhood that was of course flooded a century ago.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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Paris has a left bank and a right bank, why shouldn't Kansas City? Hell, Little Rock has development on both it's left and right banks. Do the Seine and the Arkansas not have flood plains?

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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alejandro46 wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:11 pm
FangKC wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:17 am

I wouldn't waste a dollar even creating a park in Harlem. Kansas City can't even maintain neighborhood parks now.
First, there is already the roach motel in Harlem that always has people crossing the existing Broadway bridge along the tiny median. "Informal" affordable housing, if you will.

There are ways to build buildings elevated on stilts or to raise the grade overall that would decrease the risk. I'm more saying that why argue that we should shut down the Downtown airport, a productive asset to the city that may be susceptible to the same flood risks as Harlem. The reason KCRAG has this fascination with Harlem is that it's a relatively unknown area, it is located close to downtown but its connectivity is cut off by the railroad and bad pathways along the Oneil bridge. It also used to be a small neighborhood that was of course flooded a century ago.
I argue against it is because we haven't yet built out Berkley Riverfront Park, the East Village, East Crossroads, Jazz District, and Paseo West neighborhoods. All are near the downtown loop too, and not as at risk of flooding. Only Berkley Riverfront Park is near the river. It's at least risk of flooding than Harlem since it sits higher. If the river ever gets high enough to flood Berkley, it will likely over-top the levee near Harlem.

By the time you build the structures on stilts, or raise the grade enough to be safe, you have raised the cost that it's probably not affordable housing.

My argument about moving the downtown airport had nothing to do with flooding. It had to do with the FAA always having say over building heights within proximity to the airport -- what can be built. And I didn't say remove it completely. I said move it to the Randolph/Birmingham bottom. It would still be minutes from downtown.
Last edited by FangKC on Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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FangKC wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:20 am
alejandro46 wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:11 pm
FangKC wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:17 am

I wouldn't waste a dollar even creating a park in Harlem. Kansas City can't even maintain neighborhood parks now.
First, there is already the roach motel in Harlem that always has people crossing the existing Broadway bridge along the tiny median. "Informal" affordable housing, if you will.

There are ways to build buildings elevated on stilts or to raise the grade overall that would decrease the risk. I'm more saying that why argue that we should shut down the Downtown airport, a productive asset to the city that may be susceptible to the same flood risks as Harlem. The reason KCRAG has this fascination with Harlem is that it's a relatively unknown area, it is located close to downtown but its connectivity is cut off by the railroad and bad pathways along the Oneil bridge. It also used to be a small neighborhood that was of course flooded a century ago.
I argue against it is because we haven't yet built out Berkley Riverfront Park, the East Village, East Crossroads, Jazz District, and Paseo West neighborhoods. All are near the downtown loop too, and not as at risk of flooding.
Agreed. We have a lot of open and underutilized spaces that need to be developed first. Berkley and RM have a lot of empty space still.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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FangKC wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:57 pm



The bottom image is the one MDOT released.

Image
No direct connections to i70? interesting!

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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Rabble wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:19 pm
Paris has a left bank and a right bank, why shouldn't Kansas City? Hell, Little Rock has development on both it's left and right banks. Do the Seine and the Arkansas not have flood plains?
Most of North Little Rock sits behind a flood wall.

Arkansas River bursts through levee north of Little Rock, triggering evacuations

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 297285001/

North Little Rock residents evacuate homes as water surrounds neighborhood

https://www.thv11.com/article/news/loca ... 9651ae4452

Little Rock, North Little Rock soaked; river's crest shifts

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/201 ... ts-2019-1/

Paris, 2021

The SWAMPS-Élysées! Paris is flooded by the Seine and German shipping is stalled by high water levels under bridges as rivers across Europe burst their banks after torrential downpours

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... banks.html

Paris, 2020

Louvre officials 'highly vigilant' as Paris floods again

https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/s ... -1.5490907

Paris, 2018.

The heart of Paris is underwater — and the images are a shocking reminder that the city is unprepared

https://www.businessinsider.com/see-par ... ood-2018-1

Paris, 2016

The Seine floods Paris

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/paris- ... ce-floods/

Paris residents, artwork flee deadly floods

https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/03/europe/f ... index.html

Great Flood of Paris, 1910

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1910_Great_Flood_of_Paris

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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Thanks Fang for the info. But I'm trying to imagine what Paris would look like today if the French had been following your advice for the last thousand years.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by flyingember »

Rabble wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:38 am
Thanks Fang for the info. But I'm trying to imagine what Paris would look like today if the French had been following your advice for the last thousand years.
I like it how all the articles are purposefully meant to make it look like there aren't documents that mentions they've been working on this very topic for the last 100 years
https://www.oecd.org/gov/risk/Flood-ris ... ummary.pdf

I'm sure a French language document search would turn up dramatically better results with far more history


A great example would be New Orleans. The entire history of the west is built around this city as a port.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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For thousands of years up until modern times all of Egypt went under water once a year. Even as recently as the 1960's residents of Cairo had to wade through water all across the city every summer.

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