New Broadway Bridge

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GRID
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by GRID »

Funny thing is it's going to be over capacity the second it opens as it's designed right now. Especially northbound during evenings. This plan will induce a lot of traffic from interstate routes and you will have basically one lane for Broadway and one lane for through freeway traffic merging on the bridge.

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GRID
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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bahua wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:06 pm
GRID wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:03 pm
I get what you are saying but moving 169 to the west side of the airport is not an option. Talk about getting in the way of the airport. They just needed to make 169 transition into a city street and stop trying to make it an interstate, but everybody's main goal is to have it be an interstate. Because downtown KC needs eight instead of just seven high speed interstate type routes plowing through it. You know cause so many people work there.
I can get behind that. Even better, make it a city street to the airport, and then stop it. No sarcasm. There is a large, modern, designated highway going north already, and it's less than a mile away.
exactly. You could just make it a local parkway to the airport or even briarcliff. You can keep the connection to 29, but slow it way down and keep high speed interstate traffic on I-29. 169 should be for downtown bound traffic only. Make it not a great option for through traffic. This plan does the exact opposite.

You want to fix something, fix I-29 between 169 and 35. What a ridiculous stretch of intestate that has not been upgraded since it was built.You have to merge several times and it drops to one lane each way. Fix that and keep all that through traffic on 29 and then on 35. Widen the east loop. Remove the entire north and west loops except their access to downtown streets.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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Can we not expand this into what KC metro highways need fixed? Honestly most of us don't care.


Here is where I'm at, these are all great pie in the sky ideas. We need to be realistic and again, getting rid of the north loop and moving Highway 9 to grade are realistic goals that immensely help the downtown neighborhoods tenfold more than the negatives of these flyovers. Based on data presented that requires this bridge/69 to handle some traffic. So be it. The net gain is huge.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by bahua »

KC needs fewer highways, not more. This bridge redesign works to further the cause of adding highways everywhere, regardless of need. The bridge's replacement needs to have a modest design to provide access to the downtown airport, and should be pursuant to redirecting through-traffic to the Bond Bridge.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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People don't pay attention until it's a bridge they can see. Every bridge across the Missouri River is getting the same design

The US 69 bridge was replaced a few years ago. It was a pair of girder bridges and it no longer is. Modot added a pedestrian lane on the east side when it was built.

The Chouteau bridge was a girder bridge until the 2001 replacement
Heart of America in 1987

MO 13 at Lexington, same replacement in 2005
US 65 bridge, Waverly same
Miami MO 41, same
Glasgow, same
Hermann, same
Washington, same
The new span for I-64, same

The closest new bridge that isn't just flat concrete on top goes to Kansas at Atchison so two states were involved
The last Missouri only bridge not built that way, other than the Bond Bridge, is the Liberty Bend Bridge in 1996

The I-70 Rocheport is being replaced, there's no design provided yet
Last edited by flyingember on Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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bahua wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:43 pm
KC needs fewer highways, not more. This bridge redesign works to further the cause of adding highways everywhere, regardless of need. The bridge's replacement needs to have a modest design to provide access to the downtown airport, and should be pursuant to redirecting through-traffic to the Bond Bridge.
The traffic load will lead modot to widen the Bond Bridge and I-35 into downtown. The given design capacity for that bridge is very close to the current load on two bridges combied

how many homes do you want destroyed in Columbus Park?

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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flyingember wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:11 pm
bahua wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:43 pm
KC needs fewer highways, not more. This bridge redesign works to further the cause of adding highways everywhere, regardless of need. The bridge's replacement needs to have a modest design to provide access to the downtown airport, and should be pursuant to redirecting through-traffic to the Bond Bridge.
The traffic load will lead modot to widen the Bond Bridge and I-35 into downtown. The given design capacity for that bridge is very close to the current load on two bridges combied

how many homes do you want destroyed in Columbus Park?
The Bond Bridge can easily absorb the "through" traffic that uses 169. Again, the bridge is not the problem, it's the east side of the loop and I-29 between 35 and 169 that can't handle it and need improvements. And those need to be rebuilt regardless.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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I would recommend people review the original environmental impact assessment and public comment session material.

https://www.modot.org/buck-oneil-bridge-project

My priorities for a new bridge were
1. Replace not rehab bridge w/direct 35 connection. We have a once in a hundred year opportunity, no point in applying a band-aid not fixing the overreaching problem of backups stretching to Wheeler occasionally, plus dangerous high speed turns at the N. end of bridge, terrible/dangerous pedestrian and vehicular access to Harlem. This final plan meets these needs.
2. Ensure replacement bridge is able to facilitate removal of North Loop. One alternative was a half-cloverleaf interchange with additional demo connecting I-70. As far as I can tell, this proposal meets that need.
3. Functional bike/ped line along new bridge

Moving 9hwy to at grade will require $20m plus add more in if you want to run rail along the HOA to N. KC. Removing N.Loop will cost many millions too. These are transformational projects for downtown KCMO. I do not necessarily want more highways when we cannot fund our existing network, but also acknowledge that these are existing roads that pay a key larger regional role and MODOT was going to plow $40m to rehabbing the bridge anyways no matter how mad twitter got.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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I am so sick of the downtown airport dictating everything happening downtown.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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it doesn't and it's a huge downtown amenity.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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It could be moved to the Randolph Bottoms and still be an amenity. Still close, but doesn't interfere with downtown structures.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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FangKC wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:35 pm
It could be moved to the Randolph Bottoms and still be an amenity. Still close, but doesn't interfere with downtown structures.
That airport has little effect on the bridge structure. I mean you can't build a 200' tall bridge structure, but you can easily build a lower profile bridge super structure or just add aesthetic enhancements and be just fine with the FAA.

Something like the main st bridge in Columbus: (but that bridge is not trying to be a freeway too).
Image

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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Do we not all understand how generational of an impact the north loop changes will be? Seriously it's gigantic and this bridge is the only way. If we didn't build this bridge to accomplish that we would all be bitching we were shortsighted and didn't plan for it.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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KCPowercat wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:19 pm
Do we not all understand how generational of an impact the north loop changes will be? Seriously it's gigantic and this bridge is the only way. If we didn't build this bridge to accomplish that we would all be bitching we were shortsighted and didn't plan for it.
Asked earlier but never got a response: If the North Loop removal "makes money" for MoDot like you stated, why didn't they make this part of the bridge project proposal? Doesn't that give some indication that they don't really plan to do the north loop at all? If they came out and said that north loop redo was Phase II with a dedicated start date and proposed funding, I wouldn't really care what they bridge looked like.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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You want me to try and explain MoDot thinking? I have no idea.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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KCPowercat wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:47 am
You want me to try and explain MoDot thinking? I have no idea.
Then what makes you so sure the new bridge is the only way to get north loop removal?

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by KCPowercat »

Data and studies that have been presented to the public.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by horizons82 »

It’s often easier to move things forward one card at a time instead of just laying your whole deck out at once.

It’s already known the uninformed public and people in KCK are leery of “losing” the north loop cut through. It follows then that you’d roll out items one at a time. Give people some time to absorb the changes and keep the outrage pot from overflowing and killing the whole effort.

People are losing it over just the utilitarian look of the new bridge, why would you knowingly tack on to that right now that you’re eliminating their cut-thru? Good policy, but terrible politics.

Fix the Broadway connection, then lower 9 & reconnect independence, maybe after that strip away the remaining exits off of 70, and finally eliminate the north loop entirely.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by flyingember »

horizons82 wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:58 am
It’s already known the uninformed public and people in KCK are leery of “losing” the north loop cut through. It follows then that you’d roll out items one at a time. Give people some time to absorb the changes and keep the outrage pot from overflowing and killing the whole effort.
People complained about losing the north loop months after KDOT had removed part of I-70 requiring them to find an alternate route.

Reality doesn't always play into complaints.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by alejandro46 »

beautyfromashes wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:45 am
KCPowercat wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:19 pm
Do we not all understand how generational of an impact the north loop changes will be? Seriously it's gigantic and this bridge is the only way. If we didn't build this bridge to accomplish that we would all be bitching we were shortsighted and didn't plan for it.
Asked earlier but never got a response: If the North Loop removal "makes money" for MoDot like you stated, why didn't they make this part of the bridge project proposal? Doesn't that give some indication that they don't really plan to do the north loop at all? If they came out and said that north loop redo was Phase II with a dedicated start date and proposed funding, I wouldn't really care what they bridge looked like.
Agreed with above, no way MODOT is going to stray from their lane plus they are woefully underfunded. For removing I-70, there are time constraints; MODOT needs to decide whether to rehab or replace bridge soon due to condition of bridge. As stated, funding is a huge issue, KCMO and MARC have creatively come up with additional funds to cover additional MODOT cost for bridge replacement when MODOT was willing to cover only the repair cost.

There are also federal issues with removal of I-70; it impacts KS so they need to sign off, USDOT would have to approve, etc.

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