New Broadway Bridge

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normalthings
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by normalthings »

Shortlist:

American Bridge/Parsons Team
Lunda Construction Co.
Massman-Clarkson, a joint venture
Traylor Ames Joint Venture
The Walsh Design-Build Team

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GRID
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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So this is going to be a boring girder bridge like the heart of america? That is extremely disappointing.

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TheLastGentleman
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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GRID wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:39 pm
So this is going to be a boring girder bridge like the heart of america? That is extremely disappointing.
Where did you hear this?

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Anthony_Hugo98
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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GRID wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:39 pm
So this is going to be a boring girder bridge like the heart of america? That is extremely disappointing.
Can’t do too much vertically due to new proximity to approach to MKC, I imagine under-lighting could do a lot to make it stand out at night at least
For all my military brothers and sisters out there, thanks for paving the way, ill do my best! AIRBORNE!

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GRID
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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Anthony_Hugo98 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:43 pm
GRID wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:39 pm
So this is going to be a boring girder bridge like the heart of america? That is extremely disappointing.
Can’t do too much vertically due to new proximity to approach to MKC, I imagine under-lighting could do a lot to make it stand out at night at least
Oh come on. That's a terrible excuse. You don't have to build something 100' tall. But do more than a plane girder. The current bridge has some height to it.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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TheLastGentleman wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:41 pm
GRID wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:39 pm
So this is going to be a boring girder bridge like the heart of america? That is extremely disappointing.
Where did you hear this?
From the Matt Staub podcast. Yeah, I was bored working, so I listened to it. He mentioned it would be a girder type. The only reason to go that route is to be cheap. This is a major entry point into the city from the north. Do better than another heart of america. Downtown is already totally surrounded by boring freeway bridges and the only interesting bridge is the bond which is not really tied to the downtown fabric.

Something like this:
Image

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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the new bridge is further west so even more FAA scrutiny (I'm guessing the current Buck bridge would have been a concern with today's FAA rules?)

Also it is very much a cost thing. We're barely scraping by to get this replaced and the state has dumped their responsibility onto the city to even get this far.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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Then ditch all the ramps for the commuting crowd to have yet another way to fly through downtown without touching a downtown street, force them to use the bond bridge or other routes and spend the money to make this a true pedestrian and architectural improvement to downtown.

Downtown is nothing but freeways and boring bridges, so lets make more. 169 honestly should not even be tied to the freeway grid, it should transition into Broadway. Don't want to use Broadway or downtown is not your destination? use one of the other six freeway options.

That entire broadway bridge area should be a pedestrian and recreational destination where it's more important to tie it to the river market and the river front trails system rather than make sure people can fly from northland to joco.

I just don't get it. Why in the world would you want more high speed flyover ramps and jersey barriers in downtown KC. Especially in the only area of downtown that has the population density to support a more recreational and pedestrian friendly environment.

Sorry, I pretty much hate everything about the new broadway bridge. I really hope the designs evolve and change my mind.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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I have no problem giving people a direct route around downtown without touching a downtown street. That is the worst idea which we see now at Broadway and 6th happening daily.

This bridge will have a ped/bike component, not sure what you mean by a destination.

Sorry you hate it, it's seen as a huge improvement that can get us to the point of removing the north loop which a lot of us want to see happen. It won't happen without this.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by TheLastGentleman »

It doesn't take a lot to add some interest to a bridge. How much could the texture on the piers of the new 670 viaduct have added to the construction cost?

Image

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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169 is not an interstate. There are plenty of alternate routes. I agree, the 6th Street connection to I-70 is stupid. So remove it lol. It's seriously not even needed. I know this is going to happen as basically a highway interchange, but just speaking my opinion.

And there is a reason people don't flock to the Heart of America Bridge even though it has a bike lane. I just think a new bridge that ties downtown airport and KCI to downtown could be pretty neat. I just think this is a big missed opportunity. And sorry, but removing the north loop is a pipe dream. That's decades out. MoDot has been trying for decade to remove the curves on I-70 and can't even get that done. Modot has been putting band-aids on I-70 in the KC area since the 1960's while most of the rest of I-70 across the country has been replaced and rebuilt at least once by now. Modot is broke, especially in KC (not so much in StL).

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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I just don't see a bik/ped path to downtown airport (and KCI?) as that big of a draw to make it the focus of a new bridge. For sure we demanded (and got) a bike/ped path as part of the bridge so not sure what else you are thinking is missing there?

I don't see the concern of making a direct connection from 169 to 35?

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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KCPowercat wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:53 pm
I just don't see a bik/ped path to downtown airport (and KCI?) as that big of a draw to make it the focus of a new bridge. For sure we demanded (and got) a bike/ped path as part of the bridge so not sure what else you are thinking is missing there?

I don't see the concern of making a direct connection from 169 to 35?
I mean the only traffic that really needs to use 169 is downtown airport, KCI traffic (with destination downtown) and actual downtown commuters. Everybody else should be using the actual interstate system. I just don't see how adding all those ramps is going to help anything. Like I said, the 6th interchange should just go away. Make it walkable, ped friendly, bike friendly, make the bridge interesting so people want to go there on foot and walk on it. Make sure it's well tied to trails that go in every direction. I'll try to explain more later. I have just seen so many great downtown bridges that are more recreational destinations than they are freeway connections.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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GRID wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:48 pm
169 is not an interstate. There are plenty of alternate routes. I agree, the 6th Street connection to I-70 is stupid. So remove it lol. It's seriously not even needed. I know this is going to happen as basically a highway interchange, but just speaking my opinion.

And there is a reason people don't flock to the Heart of America Bridge even though it has a bike lane. I just think a new bridge that ties downtown airport and KCI to downtown could be pretty neat. I just think this is a big missed opportunity. And sorry, but removing the north loop is a pipe dream. That's decades out. MoDot has been trying for decade to remove the curves on I-70 and can't even get that done. Modot has been putting band-aids on I-70 in the KC area since the 1960's while most of the rest of I-70 across the country has been replaced and rebuilt at least once by now. Modot is broke, especially in KC (not so much in StL).
I don't think North Loop is much of a pipe dream. Your timeline is not off, though. Is that KCMO should be doing now is to stop building shit that further extends that timeframe. The current interchange setup is too close, too short, and straight up dangerous. Kansas should have not built the new I-70 flyover and now they are unhappy that we are even talking about this. But, with adequate updates to the other corners of the loop it has been modeled to have minimum impact on traffic flow.

The bridge is fine. The state has no money; I'd rather have a boring new bridge ($100m) versus a re-decked Broadway ($40m) that both (a) doesn't solve the current terrible traffic issue and (b) is not conducive to N. Loop removal.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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Always interested in your thoughts on projects like this.

I mean sure we could completely stop any transition from 169 to 35. I don't know if that was brought up as an option but I assume it was considered?

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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KCPowercat wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:08 pm
Always interested in your thoughts on projects like this.

I mean sure we could completely stop any transition from 169 to 35. I don't know if that was brought up as an option but I assume it was considered?
I know I get really passionate about KC+urban planning. It's just in my blood :). I really think KC is dropping the ball big time with this one. The city and modot once again are putting way too much emphasis on moving through traffic in an urban area. 169 is not even that busy and if you take out the people who are just trying to get to 35 south, it's very low volume. The only reason it's congested is because it's trying to connect with I-70. Broadway should just cross over 70 there with no connections. Traffic congestion would basically go away even during peak periods and Broadway would become a much nicer neighborhood street. I can't believe anybody thinks it's a a good idea to add more flyover directional ramps in downtown KC, especially ramps that will take out buildings. That's all downtown is is highways. All the surface streets downtown are deserted most of the time. Even Grand is empty most of the time. There is so much capacity downtown, it's just not being used. If Modot wants to improve the movement of through traffic, they need to widen the east loop so that it can better handle the connection between 35 in JoCo to 35 in the northland. And fix the bottleneck where 670 goes down to one lane in the southwest corner of the loop.

My dream has always been to remove the north and west loops all together. Make 169 just turn into broadway and turn the north loop and lewis and clark viaduct back into a parkway or something.

Whatever, I guess. But at the very least do more than a boring 435 looking bridge for the spot and do a really good job of tying it to trails and sidewalks in the downtown area. Do more than just having a bike lane.

Maybe something like the south st bridge in philly, but they have a really nice river trail system to connect to. It's a boring girder bridge otherwise. Image
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Post by GRID »

I still think if it's a new structure it should have some sort of interesting superstructure. It doesn't have to be tall, like this new bridge in DC.
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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This bridge in Columbus makes you want to park your car and walk up to and over the bridge. A bridge like the HOA doesn't do that. It's not tall at all, yet it's probably one of the most photographed places in Columbus with the skyline behind it.

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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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When it comes to highway bridges I vote for makeing it as cheap as possible. Hopefully so cheap that no one even notices it. So many better things to spend money on. Even if they try to make it intresting it will be like the Bond bridge, another ho hum, me too, "iconic" (LOL) waste.
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Re: New Broadway Bridge

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shinatoo wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:14 pm
When it comes to highway bridges I vote for makeing it as cheap as possible. Hopefully so cheap that no one even notices it. So many better things to spend money on. Even if they try to make it intresting it will be like the Bond bridge, another ho hum, me too, "iconic" (LOL) waste.
Agree completely. Once the sidewalks in the core aren’t trip hazards and the bike plan gets fully funded, then I’m willing to drop money on a vanity highway bridge.

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