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Re: New Broadway Bridge

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:19 pm
by TheLastGentleman
All I care about is whether it facilitates removing the north loop. I don't even care about what it looks like.

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:36 pm
by grovester
What about the comment that the cost was estimated at 200 mil previously?

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:25 pm
by moderne
Hope the design takes into account the shifting conditions of the riverbed. Because of the constricted current of the narrowed river there has been scouring of the riverbed so that the river is actually cutting down to a lower level. This can endanger the piers in the water, their pilings only go down so far. I have a suspicion that the B.O/Broadway is close to being catastrophically affected.

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:54 pm
by normalthings
moderne wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:25 pm
Hope the design takes into account the shifting conditions of the riverbed. Because of the constricted current of the narrowed river there has been scouring of the riverbed so that the river is actually cutting down to a lower level. This can endanger the piers in the water, their pilings only go down so far. I have a suspicion that the B.O/Broadway is close to being catastrophically affected.
I thought that is one of the significant public problems with the bridge

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:03 am
by KCPowercat
All estimates were $180M +

This is concerning if that reporting of the budget is accurate

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:03 am
by KCPowercat
TheLastGentleman wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:19 pm
All I care about is whether it facilitates removing the north loop. I don't even care about what it looks like.
Agreed

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:28 am
by smh
KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:03 am
TheLastGentleman wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:19 pm
All I care about is whether it facilitates removing the north loop. I don't even care about what it looks like.
Agreed
Concur

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:29 am
by alejandro46
KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:03 am
TheLastGentleman wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:19 pm
All I care about is whether it facilitates removing the north loop. I don't even care about what it looks like.
Agreed
Agreed, the LAST thing we need is to spend extra money on a spaghetti interchange with i-70 when we could better use that money to get rid of the N. Loop and bring 9NWY at-grade.

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:33 am
by KCPowercat
From what I'm reading it sounds like the preference is Central alignment and the money is there for that which should open up all the 9 highway and north loop options.

Let's hope.

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:38 am
by GRID
normalthings wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:02 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:47 pm
Fingers crossed
Price Tag: $100 million

MARC: $40 million
KCMO and MO to split the rest.

So really this is cutting down the project so that MO State doesn't have to pay their share. :(


IIRC, all of the proposals involved a sizable interchange around I35. Ideally, this shoots straight into I35 with no oversized interchange.
wow, 100 million will barely put up a decent bridge, let alone an interesting looking bridge and improvements to the north loop. Why is everything in KC done so cheap? So they can come back and do stuff again in 3 years? I can't believe what's going on with I-70 by the stadiums. Every time I'm in KC, they are doing some shitty band-aid project that tears up a part of a project that was just finished. Spend years refurbishing bridges near Manchaster, than proceed to tear them out and build new, then rebuild 435 interchange, now doing it again. And it will still look all dated and in need of a complete rebuild once the current project is done. 70 needed to be totally rebuilt 20 years ago and they are still just messing with it. I fear the same thing will happen if they start messing with the downtown loop. May as well just leave it alone.

I personally hope they just make the bridge nice and stop trying to making everything a 60mph highway. Who cares about the 35 connection? Make downtown walkable again. Stop making more flyovers and high speed ramps. It's the Broadway Bridge, not the Interstate 169 Bridge.

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:58 am
by KCPowercat
100M was reported incorrectly. It's at least 210M

Routing traffic directly to 35 makes this whole situation more walkable.

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:47 pm
by normalthings
KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:58 am
100M was reported incorrectly. It's at least 210M

Routing traffic directly to 35 makes this whole situation more walkable.
The 35 direct options includes a spaghetti interchange. The center option didn’t look any better. I want a direct 35 connection but with no interchange.


Edit: More then 20% of new infrastructure funds will go to STL Metro. I wonder how that stacks up to KC.

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:15 pm
by Eon Blue
normalthings wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:47 pm

The 35 direct options includes a spaghetti interchange. The center option didn’t look any better. I want a direct 35 connection but with no interchange.
You can't have a direct connection without either an interchange or re-aligning I-35 to come across the river on the new bridge. The latter would be beacoup work north of the river, so the likely alternative to an interchange would be signals like we have now.

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:27 pm
by KCPowercat
normalthings wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:47 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:58 am
100M was reported incorrectly. It's at least 210M

Routing traffic directly to 35 makes this whole situation more walkable.
The 35 direct options includes a spaghetti interchange. The center option didn’t look any better. I want a direct 35 connection but with no interchange.


Edit: More then 20% of new infrastructure funds will go to STL Metro. I wonder how that stacks up to KC.
I'm not following. If we want this bridge to connect to i35 and Broadway there has to be an interchange somewhere doesn't there?

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:39 pm
by flyingember
KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:27 pm
normalthings wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:47 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:58 am
100M was reported incorrectly. It's at least 210M

Routing traffic directly to 35 makes this whole situation more walkable.
The 35 direct options includes a spaghetti interchange. The center option didn’t look any better. I want a direct 35 connection but with no interchange.


Edit: More then 20% of new infrastructure funds will go to STL Metro. I wonder how that stacks up to KC.
I'm not following. If we want this bridge to connect to i35 and Broadway there has to be an interchange somewhere doesn't there?
The idea is to keep the flyover ramps and make users exit into downtown other places, like 12th St by not builing the ramps to/from Broadway.

The idea being this project should enable removing the north loop and get people used to other routes.

Since a huge number of people take 169 to 70 EB it's not a bad thought but it also makes it harder to get into downtown

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:00 pm
by shinatoo
GRID wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:38 am
normalthings wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:02 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:47 pm
Fingers crossed
Price Tag: $100 million

MARC: $40 million
KCMO and MO to split the rest.

So really this is cutting down the project so that MO State doesn't have to pay their share. :(


IIRC, all of the proposals involved a sizable interchange around I35. Ideally, this shoots straight into I35 with no oversized interchange.
wow, 100 million will barely put up a decent bridge, let alone an interesting looking bridge and improvements to the north loop. Why is everything in KC done so cheap? So they can come back and do stuff again in 3 years? I can't believe what's going on with I-70 by the stadiums. Every time I'm in KC, they are doing some shitty band-aid project that tears up a part of a project that was just finished. Spend years refurbishing bridges near Manchaster, than proceed to tear them out and build new, then rebuild 435 interchange, now doing it again. And it will still look all dated and in need of a complete rebuild once the current project is done. 70 needed to be totally rebuilt 20 years ago and they are still just messing with it. I fear the same thing will happen if they start messing with the downtown loop. May as well just leave it alone.

I personally hope they just make the bridge nice and stop trying to making everything a 60mph highway. Who cares about the 35 connection? Make downtown walkable again. Stop making more flyovers and high speed ramps. It's the Broadway Bridge, not the Interstate 169 Bridge.
It's a road for cars, why does it have to be iconic looking? Just make it a slab bridge like HOA. Lets spend that money on something useful like removing the north loop. Bond bridge was 25M 10 years ago, it's nothing special to look at and it was supposed to be iconic and unique. It was also supposed to have bike lanes.

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:10 pm
by WSPanic
The Bond Bridge only cost $25M? Really? I thought the bridge itself was closer to $75M and the entire project (all of the interchanges up north to the 35/29 split was something like $250M. Maybe I'm completely misremembering. But $25M sounds awfully affordable.

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:13 pm
by shinatoo
WSPanic wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:10 pm
The Bond Bridge only cost $25M? Really? I thought the bridge itself was closer to $75M and the entire project (all of the interchanges up north to the 35/29 split was something like $250M. Maybe I'm completely misremembering. But $25M sounds awfully affordable.
Originally I had typed 250m but then started to think I was wrong about that. It had to be 250 though, right? 25 wouldn't get you shit.

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:52 pm
by KCPowercat
flyingember wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:39 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:27 pm
normalthings wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:47 pm


The 35 direct options includes a spaghetti interchange. The center option didn’t look any better. I want a direct 35 connection but with no interchange.


Edit: More then 20% of new infrastructure funds will go to STL Metro. I wonder how that stacks up to KC.
I'm not following. If we want this bridge to connect to i35 and Broadway there has to be an interchange somewhere doesn't there?
The idea is to keep the flyover ramps and make users exit into downtown other places, like 12th St by not builing the ramps to/from Broadway.

The idea being this project should enable removing the north loop and get people used to other routes.

Since a huge number of people take 169 to 70 EB it's not a bad thought but it also makes it harder to get into downtown
This project does not need to remove Broadway access to enable removing the north loop.

Re: New Broadway Bridge

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:34 pm
by dakkottadavviss
My top priority, watching this project unfold, is removing the north loop. At the very least they need to make it much more compact and have less exits, like the south loop. But I think I’d be much better to reconnect the street grid with a boulevard. Maybe they could use the trench for buried parking garages or something besides just filling it with dirt. Either way the state will save tons of money in maintenance by removing it.

Leveling highway 9 to at-grade is very important too. I hope they’ll remove that abomination of an interchange with I-70 as well. I’m split between using the excess right of way for a park or new development. It’d be kind of cool to see like an extension of the park strip between locust and oak all the way to the riverfront.

The west alternative is probably best for walk ability and a direct connection to I-35 (which is 100% necessary). It pushes the bridge, and car traffic, west and out of the river market area. My only concern is Broadway traffic using the bridge. They’d have to turn left onto Indep Ave to access the new bridge. With the central alternative it still pushes the bridge away from the river market area and provides a direct connection to Broadway without too much disruption to the street grid.