Phase 2 Streetcar Funding

[flyingember]

Would you rather build a train line or pick out a highway to widen?

Are you suggesting that a streetcar line could somehow redeem a suburban morass of culs-de-sac and half-acre lots, or that mass transit could substitute for a freeway in that environment?

I'll assume your exaggerating to make a point, half acre lots and cul de sacs are less common than street lights inside some neighborhoods south of the river

Start comparing areas. There's parts of the northland that look exactly like brookside/Waldo except for the home style and age of the trees. In some cases there's no difference. Stereotyping an area is the kind of thing which will lose elections in the future. liberty for example is almost a decade older than Westport. It has a downtown grid that is very close in age to KCs, might even be older.

And yes, mass transit can supplement a freeway. There's actually a jackson county plan to do just that with us 71 south of the river. To use a parallel train line to provide service to the suburbs around red bridge road, bannister and such. It won't cover the urban environment but the suburbs

Sure, prospect has more bus use today, but the -only- dedicated transit light cycle and transit lanes in the city was on a northland traffic light. (Currently not used) Think about that.

[beautyfromashes]

Would you rather build a train line or pick out a highway to widen?

Are you suggesting that a streetcar line could somehow redeem a suburban morass of culs-de-sac and half-acre lots, or that mass transit could substitute for a freeway in that environment?

It's funny, people in this city probably asked the exact opposite question 75 years ago about highways and cars and suburbs. Things change, and sometimes dramatically and quickly.

[flyingember]

Would you rather build a train line or pick out a highway to widen?

Are you suggesting that a streetcar line could somehow redeem a suburban morass of culs-de-sac and half-acre lots, or that mass transit could substitute for a freeway in that environment?

It's funny, people in this city probably asked the exact opposite question 75 years ago about highways and cars and suburbs. Things change, and sometimes dramatically and quickly.

probably? it's a known fact. we built many streets decades ago because of this very idea

• SW Trafficway all the way to the plaza was meant to be a bypass of slow city streets. the viaduct over downtown, the bridge at Penn Valley, the lack of turns, the former tunnel at 40th
• there was talk of a freeway replacing brookside blvd at one time
• the parkway system is meant to be a road backbone that other roads feed into
• beardsley and cliff drive are bypass routes to get from A to B quicker around neighborhoods

[bbqboy]

What former tunnel

[Demosthenes]

Flyingember, I agree that the northland has lots of development potential from a streetcar line. And for Kansas City to fully maximize its potential we must start fully developing and densifying the northland. So much opportunity that is essentially being wasted right now. A streetcar line up North Oak would do really well.

No doubt the cost going over the bridge is the big problem (that and the multiple jurisdictions it would travel through). If we can just figure out a way to make it work, this will be a major step in the right direction for KC. As the urban paradigm of the 21st century begins to strengthen, KC north will become very valuable. As we extend the streetcar north (assuming we can make it work soon enough) there will be a great opportunity to demolish much of the single family tract homes in the area and build a denser urban form in its place. It is pretty cool to think about the areas surrounding Water Works park and whatnot being cool, urban neighborhoods. Imagine using the hilly terrain to create interesting, San Francisco like neighborhoods.

The northland doesn't have to be a sparsely populated wilderness forever. All this being said, this idea really requires the city to increase its growth, which I think it will. We don't want the northland interfering with the repopulating of the historic city. I'm hoping if we completely densify the northland we could pull in people from far flung burbs that are fearful of living in the old city but want to live in an urban environment.

[DaveKCMO]

locate your property on this map to find out your assessment (which won't be collected until KC receives 50% federal match): http://www.nextrailkc.com/assessments.html

the terminii are still in play, so don't assume the entire length of each corridor will be assessed.

[beautyfromashes]

If you're at the intersection of the NS/EW connection will you get double hit?

[DaveKCMO]

If you're at the intersection of the NS/EW connection will you get double hit?

no.

also, downtown TDD goes away as soon as this one becomes active (since the downtown TDD incurred no debt, it can be dissolved with a simple vote of its board).

[flyingember]

If you're at the intersection of the NS/EW connection will you get double hit?

this one is per lot, not per street footage. there is a KC example for one that worked that way though

the former parks/boulevards assessment was based on the number of feet it was on a boulevard/parkway. so there were corner lots where two boulevards met that didn't technically get double hit because that just increased the footage but you could say they did in a way

[DaveKCMO]

consultant recommendations for a terminus in each corridor will be presented to a joint council committee meeting (T&I and PZED) on march 27. as a reminder, the recommendation from the CCROW advisory committee was to keep "south of 51st" in phase 2.

[kboish]

If I remember correctly. Going South of 51st all in one phase will limit Phase 2 (assuming main wins) to main south and one other corridor (instead of both Linwood and Independence Ave). Correct?

[DaveKCMO]

If I remember correctly. Going South of 51st all in one phase will limit Phase 2 (assuming main wins) to main south and one other corridor (instead of both Linwood and Independence Ave). Correct?

incorrect.

streetcar will be constructed in all three corridors. the only question is the length of each corridor, within the constraints of the funding proposal.

however, the neighborhoods south of 51st did recommend more expensive options than using the CCROW so you won't be able to go as far for the same amount of funding (assuming the consultants and council agree so continue south of 51st at all in phase 2).

[kboish]

If I remember correctly. Going South of 51st all in one phase will limit Phase 2 (assuming main wins) to main south and one other corridor (instead of both Linwood and Independence Ave). Correct?

incorrect.

streetcar will be constructed in all three corridors. the only question is the length of each corridor, within the constraints of the funding proposal.

however, the neighborhoods south of 51st did recommend more expensive options than using the CCROW so you won't be able to go as far for the same amount of funding (assuming the consultants and council agree so continue south of 51st at all in phase 2).

Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

[DaveKCMO]

joint council committee (T&I/PZED) will take up a new phase 2 ordinance on march 27 that sets the terminii for the three corridors and advances the project to the next step (engineering/environmental).

[DaveKCMO]

http://www.kansascity.com/2014/03/23/49 ... owing.html

On April 1 and 2, Jackson County Circuit Judge Marco Roldan will consider the legality of creating an expanded streetcar taxing district that could extend from State Line Road on the west to Interstate 435 on the east, and from the Missouri River south to 85th Street.

Both supporters and opponents have told the court to expect a large crowd of people who will want to have their say.

If the court approves, voters in those boundaries would be asked to approve the district in August and then decide in November whether to impose a districtwide 1-cent sales tax, plus special assessments for properties within a half-mile of the streetcar routes.

[DaveKCMO]

got some extra time? read this 50-page ramble from the opposition!

http://transitkc.com/wp-content/uploads ... eJanes.pdf

[taxi]

Wow, that is outrageous. One thing is apparent, though. They are organized and active.

[flyingember]

it's best for them to be organized and get their fair time in court at the legality hearing than to go through another stupid lawsuit after the fact.



conveniently what seems to be their best argument is completely legal. everyone is getting a special assessment, it just happens that one class is a $0 rate.

It is unjust, unfair and unreasonable to allow those who live in the TDD but not in the area to be burdened by the special assessment, to vote on imposition of that special assessment.

238.230

5. A district may establish different classes or subclasses of real property within the district for purposes of levying differing rates of special assessments. The levy rate for special assessments may vary for each class or subclass of real property based on the level of benefit derived by each class or subclass from projects funded by the district.

Also, the bus system does not seem to be at capacity and this proposal would rob that system of valuable dollars.

"seems to be" doesn't have much legal basis does it? It's also ironic to be against a vote which would add money to the bus system, have dedicated money for the train and claim it's robbing it of money. easily ignored.

I think they’ll have an uphill climb on is proving the property tax is a burden. It’s a fair claim to make, but how do they prove it? Someone chooses to live along the expensive Brookside Blvd and then complains about taxes? they also say it hurts their ability to market their home. How are they going to prove this? The city can show hundreds of millions in developer interest along the downtown line with hundreds of units underway. thats not a situation where it’s hard to market a property. Isn’t there provable interest along Indep Ave already?

the sales tax argument seems unlikely to make it since it already was fine to make an area have the single highest rate in the city. there's a state-level 1% tax (education) and a city-level 1% tax already (capital improvements). I'd like to see the argument that how one capital improvement tax is fine at that rate but another isn’t.

I could see the judge asking if it would be more fair to impose a property tax on everybody and not have the sales tax. That would kill most of their arguments right there.

[chaglang]

So that's what Mel Solomon's been up to! When he ran for city council, one of his platform issues was making the Trolley Trail a "world class trail".

[grovester]

Yes, I've done the Appalachian, next is the the Trolley Track.