Phase 2 streetcar on Independence Avenue

[DaveKCMO]

The development potential for each option seems roughly the same.
Hooking into the River Market via Columbus Park would keep the system simple...

+1

[Eon Blue]

Where would a route out of downtown along Admiral Blvd connect to Indy Ave? At Woodland, or somewhere farther west? I didn't make it to the workshop, but it seems like there are several viable options, including one that would stop in Columbus Park before jogging south to Admiral via Charlotte.

Woodland's an option, or perhaps Highland.

The development potential for each option seems roughly the same.
Hooking into the River Market via Columbus Park would keep the system simple, with all connections at the route ends; but connecting directly into downtown via Admiral would reduce travel time to the likeliest destinations, which are in the loop and points south, not in the River Market.

I'll be looking forward to the analysis of development potential by the pros.

Let's do both.

Couplet! (KIDDING)

In hindsight, having both directions travel down Third Street from Delaware to 3rd & Grand in lieu of the loop would have made for a natural extension into Columbus Park. Would a Columbus Park alignment travel the RM loop and head back east, or continue as a single-seat ride to somewhere in the CBD?

[Pork Chop]

The development potential for each option seems roughly the same.
Hooking into the River Market via Columbus Park would keep the system simple...

+1

After looking at map that Eon Blue mentioned I will have to say +2 as well. I didn't like the first idea (if it was an actual idea) where the Independence line looked like it would swing over the HoA bridge and into NKC. The new version of the line going directly into the River Market makes a lot more sense; where I believe the Grand stop for the Main Street line is what a half block away?

Sure the case can be made for the 7th Street line, but by looking at the map it does make the Independence line bit more complex. In the end, the main reason for building the streetcar lines is to rebuild the urban core and from my understanding it best to do that through an uncomplicated system with high frequency.

I am all for rebuilding the East Village, but when it makes sense to do so. I am of the belief that making downtown and Urban KC in general more livable will benefit where I live in the long run anyways and as KC grows there maybe more streetcar line opportunities that will benefit the East Village i.e. the 12th street line as Eon Blue mentioned.

[DaveKCMO]

Would a Columbus Park alignment travel the RM loop and head back east, or continue as a single-seat ride to somewhere in the CBD?

that depends on what is operating at the time a northeast line goes live. if it's just south to union station or UMKC, then yes, it makes sense to continue as single-seat. if NKC line is operating then i believe alternating runs from the northeast should go south and north (which means NKC departures would alternate between UMKC and northeast).

i don't ever see an operating scenario where a northeast line loops around the RM and goes back. it doesn't make any sense. same for runs coming from NKC. the loop exists as a turnaround for phase 1 and to avoid the grade on 5th.

[DaveKCMO]

and re: east village, a 12th street line should be used to juice that effort. there's been discussion about doing east and west 12th as one project that spans segments of each corridor (say, gennesse to troost).

[Pork Chop]

Would a Columbus Park alignment travel the RM loop and head back east, or continue as a single-seat ride to somewhere in the CBD?

that depends on what is operating at the time a northeast line goes live. if it's just south to union station or UMKC, then yes, it makes sense to continue as single-seat. if NKC line is operating then i believe alternating runs from the northeast should go south and north (which means NKC departures would alternate between UMKC and northeast).

i don't ever see an operating scenario where a northeast line loops around the RM and goes back. it doesn't make any sense. same for runs coming from NKC. the loop exists as a turnaround for phase 1 and to avoid the grade on 5th.

This makes a lot of sense now, since I was very limited in my thinking on how the lines would run. The planning for both Phase 1 and the extensions have been impressive.

[flyingember]

Wichita looking to expand transit with a lesson for the streetcar east side expansion lines.

http://www.kansas.com/2013/10/29/308588 ... needs.html

“Right away after I was laid off, I got some temporary work, and they were ready to put me into a third-shift job, but I lost the compression in a valve in my engine,” Cunningham said. “The buses don’t run late enough for third shift, so I had to say no. So, yeah, the bus system is pretty important to me.”

New transit head Steve Spade wants to tie the city’s bus routes closer to important destinations – jobs, doctors, social services, shopping, apartments. So Cunningham’s story hit home for him.

“That’s just sad,” Spade said. “It’s all about jobs and the other things to help people have a better life in Wichita.”

two categories their transit head sees as important: jobs and other.

[DaveKCMO]

Independence Avenue ranked fairly well because of strong community support, population density, transit dependent population and development potential.

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/11/04/45 ... s-get.html

[DaveKCMO]

where would you put stops in columbus park? please support your selections.

[flyingember]

where would you put stops in columbus park? please support your selections.

two stops

I would not follow Cherry. you can't get any development benefit from a retaining wall

follow 3rd to Charlotte
put the first stop between Holmes and Charlotte. the stop will be outside the new redevelopment plan in NW Columbus Park

put a stop at Indep Ave and Charlotte, could move a block north
this gets a stop near to the condos and hotel on Admiral

this gives good coverage to both sides of Columbus Park as well as areas south of I-35

[taxi]

Independence Ave. and Charlotte seems an obvious spot, as it is kind of a crossroads. The route should follow Cherry, it has the room and is efficient. The retaining wall just needs a little love, like a mural.

I don't think CP really needs more than 2 stops, so I would opt for the opposite corners of the hood (3rd and Cherry and Independence Ave. and Troost) If there were to be only one stop, which is all it really needs, I would say Independence Ave. and Charlotte should be it. From the farthest depths of Guinotte Manor, the NE corner of the hood, it would be a 15 minute walk to that stop. And from most of the rest of the hood, it is less than 10 minutes walk.

[flyingember]

The route should follow Cherry, it has the room and is efficient. The retaining wall just needs a little love, like a mural.

while true, if short and efficient was the major goal the best route would follow 5th St into Columbus Park. would take less track to get from A to B and it would be just as easy to connect to the loop there.

remember, this area has no bus service today. Putting the streetcar on Cherry would be like putting Prospect MAX on US 71 for part of the route and calling it efficient. this is going to be the major service into the area and needs to connect as close to the riders as possible.

While I'm always for connecting to major attractions and simplicity where the alternatives are equal, this is one place where a little complexity and "burrowing" into an area is the best decision.

[pash]

.

[flyingember]

The obvious problems with that are that (a) Campbell doesn't even exist between Third and Fourth, and (b) it might not be wide enough. But ignoring those slight technicalities, I think Campbell would be pretty awesome with a streetcar running down it.

Campbell was my second choice. I liked how it's a more commercial street through Columbus Park so it was less disruptive to residents.

The reason I didn't think Campbell made sense is is because Charlotte has a street light, simplifying the turn controls. There's no point in making any such turn any harder than it needs to be and for me, simplicity won there.

[kboish]

I like the idea of going down Campbell via 3rd to help spur redevelopment of the empty parcels. I even like going all the way down 5th to Troost and then to Independence Avenue. I think the likely hood of either of these being supported by the neighborhood is slim and none- it will almost certainly be taking Cherry around to the Avenue, which seems unfortunate.

[pash]

.

[taxi]

It seems entirely possible and reasonable that when the streetcar might run down a short corridor where there is no developable land, adjacent and nearby land will be developed. Land one or two blocks from the streetcar may even be more desirable for some uses than land on the line.

[pash]

.

[KCMax]

City council passes three routes for Kansas City streetcar

We now know from Main Street, the streetcar will head east on Independence Avenue, the 31st street/Linwood corridor and south on Main, likely along the trolley trail. It is possible it could extend as far at 85th Street.

City officials said the streetcar wouldn't get rid of the trolley trail but be in the green space alongside it. The trolley trail might even see improvements.

[kcjak]

So is there a maximum of 10 miles available for the expansion or is that just a guideline that could stretch to a few more miles after the studies are complete? I'm confused about whether a 5 mile line could go south and then only have an additional 5 miles to split between the other two routes.