Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

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KCPowercat
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by KCPowercat »

Just a lot going on on Main after we get streetcar running. If bike lanes get rid of parking, then okay I can get down with that bus squeezing it onto main at this point seems dangerous.

Let's make one street off main bike friendly for the usage you just mentioned.

I saw normal cars driving over bollards a couple weeks ago. Beater car owners dgaf about bollards.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by GRID »

I think you need dedicated bike lanes on Main St between Pershing and Linwood and there is room to do it there and you have few alternatives for cyclists. South of Linwood you can transition to parallel roads if there is no way to make room on Main. But you won't have a nice straight route all the way through midtown.

I really don't see why something like this can't be implemented along most of main.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8798056 ... 384!8i8192

You could possibly even still allow parking on one side of Main Street. Main is so wide. If you put some effort into it, I think you can do wonders with it.
Last edited by GRID on Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by smh »

All good points. Perhaps that Main -> Linwood stretch is a good spot before the network heads in other directions. It is super wide.

That said, agree we're at 60% design so things seem unlikely to change.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by beautyfromashes »

smh wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:56 am
All good points. Perhaps that Main -> Linwood stretch is a good spot before the network heads in other directions. It is super wide.

That said, agree we're at 60% design so things seem unlikely to change.
Is there any hope that the streetscape will be changed with CID funds? I know the Federal Reserve dedicated funds for the original redesign when the MaxBus was implemented. Perhaps, there is money there to add some of the wants people seem to have.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by KCPowercat »

GRID wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:54 am
I think you need dedicated bike lanes on Main St between Pershing and Linwood and there is room to do it there and you have few alternatives for cyclists. South of Linwood you can transition to parallel roads if there is no way to make room on Main. But you won't have a nice straight route all the way through midtown.

I really don't see why something like this can't be implemented along most of main.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8798056 ... 384!8i8192

You could possibly even still allow parking on one side of Main Street. Main is so wide. If you put some effort into it, I think you can do wonders with it.
Yeah that would be doable. Good bikers can use it I guess, I won't be. Holy hill. Just throw my bike on the streetcar

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by smh »

KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:58 am
GRID wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:54 am
I think you need dedicated bike lanes on Main St between Pershing and Linwood and there is room to do it there and you have few alternatives for cyclists. South of Linwood you can transition to parallel roads if there is no way to make room on Main. But you won't have a nice straight route all the way through midtown.

I really don't see why something like this can't be implemented along most of main.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8798056 ... 384!8i8192

You could possibly even still allow parking on one side of Main Street. Main is so wide. If you put some effort into it, I think you can do wonders with it.
Yeah that would be doable. Good bikers can use it I guess, I won't be. Holy hill. Just throw my bike on the streetcar
#synergy

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by KCPowercat »

Something needs done with that space for sure. I made a comment it should be wider sidewalks.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by normalthings »

GRID wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:54 am
I think you need dedicated bike lanes on Main St between Pershing and Linwood and there is room to do it there and you have few alternatives for cyclists. South of Linwood you can transition to parallel roads if there is no way to make room on Main. But you won't have a nice straight route all the way through midtown.

I really don't see why something like this can't be implemented along most of main.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8798056 ... 384!8i8192

You could possibly even still allow parking on one side of Main Street. Main is so wide. If you put some effort into it, I think you can do wonders with it.
Will we be seeing you at the 7pm public update and feedback meeting?

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://us ... CiaPnL5w1a

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by normalthings »

Notes from the Q&A tonight:

1. The maintenance facility could hold 15-16 units. Expandable further in future phases. Sounds like they are looking to purchase 8 vehicles if possible, 6 is the official plan.

2. 60% design is not public yet but the interactive map is "pretty much it"

3. Sounds like a lot of pedestrian improvements are being worked on but not yet in the drawings? Also sounds like trying to keep things flexible with expected redevelopment of the area in the future.

4. When asked if there would be full streetcar priority, team said yes.

5. Trolley Track trail connection designed for cyclists to easily pass by the UMKC station.

6. Cycles can travel in the main street corridor. Ghillam seen as a parrellel dedicated bike corridor from Brush Creek to Grand through downtown.

7. KCMO may renovate Brush Creek Bridge during the project.

8. East side of Main between Pershing and S. Crown Center will finally gain a sidewalk. Sounds like there will be a dedicated bike lane uphill on the west side.

9. Design is keeping e/w expansions in mind. No active efforts for E/W but conversations have happened along with active conversations with KCK and NKC.

10. NKC to Riverfront is planned as a 1 singular route. Project is designed so that a downtown circulator can be run during large events, etc.

11. Waits in the street such as the car wash (i would think also school) are technically not allowed.

12. Someone asked if there could be a donation box installed to reduce tax payer "burden." :lol:
Last edited by normalthings on Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by GRID »

normalthings wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:41 pm
GRID wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:54 am
I think you need dedicated bike lanes on Main St between Pershing and Linwood and there is room to do it there and you have few alternatives for cyclists. South of Linwood you can transition to parallel roads if there is no way to make room on Main. But you won't have a nice straight route all the way through midtown.

I really don't see why something like this can't be implemented along most of main.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8798056 ... 384!8i8192

You could possibly even still allow parking on one side of Main Street. Main is so wide. If you put some effort into it, I think you can do wonders with it.
Will we be seeing you at the 7pm public update and feedback meeting?

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://us ... CiaPnL5w1a
You think they care about what some dude in Maryland thinks? If people here like any of my ideas, hopefully they pass them along and they come from a local.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO »

normalthings wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:55 pm
12. Someone asked if there could be a donation box installed to reduce tax payer "burden." :lol:
I really wanted to respond in the chat, but...

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by GRID »

normalthings wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:55 pm
Notes from the Q&A tonight:

1. The maintenance facility could hold 15-16 units. Expandable further in future phases. Sounds like they are looking to purchase 8 vehicles if possible, 6 is the official plan.

2. 60% design is not public yet but the interactive map is "pretty much it"

3. Sounds like a lot of pedestrian improvements are being worked on but not yet in the drawings? Also sounds like trying to keep things flexible with expected as the area redevelops in the future.

4. When asked if there would be full streetcar priority, team said yes.

5. Trolley Track trail connection designed for cyclists to easily pass by the UMKC station.

6. Cycles can travel in the main street corridor. Ghillam seen as a parrellel dedicated bike corridor from Brush Creek to Grand through downtown.

7. KCMO may renovate Brush Creek Bridge during the project.

8. East side of Main between Pershing and S. Crown Center will finally gain a sidewalk. Sounds like there will be a dedicated bike lane uphill on the west side.

9. Design is keeping e/w expansions in mind. No active efforts for E/W but conversations have happened along with active conversations with KCK and NKC.

10. NKC to Riverfront is planned as a 1 singular route. Project is designed so that a downtown circulator can be run during large events, etc.

11. Waits in the street such as the car wash (i would think also school) are technically not allowed.

12. Someone asked if there could be a donation box installed to reduce tax payer "burden." :lol:
Sounds like they might be doing more than it might look like. At least they are getting the streetcar installed, but hopefully they do as as much as work on the pedestrian infrastructure as possible while everything is tore up.

Or at least come up with some guidelines that can be implemented as part of some of the large projects that will likely be going up soon.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by smh »

normalthings wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:55 pm
Notes from the Q&A tonight:

4. When asked if there would be full streetcar priority, team said yes.

11. Waits in the street such as the car wash (i would think also school) are technically not allowed.
Thanks for sharing these notes, really helpful for those of us who couldn't be there.

The two quoted items I'm curious to hear more about as we move forward.

4. Assume priority will be similar to downtown? Can detect streetcar coming and hold the light. This is great, but as we've seen downtown, priority in mixed-traffic is kind of a mixed bag. You'd rather have it than not, but without dedicated lanes priority can only do so much.

11. Technically and practically are two different things! :lol: Going to be a lot of upset BKS MOMS(TM) if they can't queue for St. Paul's. My guess is Streetcar has a plan or is developing one for these two or three sticky spots--they've been quite good at managing tough spots along the downtown alignment.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by taxi »

The carwash will sell before the streetcar arrives.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by Critical_Mass »

8. East side of Main between Pershing and S. Crown Center will finally gain a sidewalk. Sounds like there will be a dedicated bike lane uphill on the west side.
This is excellent news. Is this in addition to a dedicated streetcar-only segment thru this stretch? Or is that no longer part of the plan?
The current construction 'road diet' is proving that even a two-lane road thru this stretch of Main is more than sufficient for cars. The drag-racers and motorcycle groups might not like it but as a resident idgaf about their noise pollution hobbies.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by beautyfromashes »

taxi wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:29 am
The carwash will sell before the streetcar arrives.
I believe they own the parcel between them and the laundromat and a strip of land connecting to 34th St. My guess is they expand to make room so cars don't block Main. They'll make the exiting cars empty onto 34th. I hope I'm wrong.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by langosta »

Critical_Mass wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:47 am
8. East side of Main between Pershing and S. Crown Center will finally gain a sidewalk. Sounds like there will be a dedicated bike lane uphill on the west side.
This is excellent news. Is this in addition to a dedicated streetcar-only segment thru this stretch? Or is that no longer part of the plan?
The current construction 'road diet' is proving that even a two-lane road thru this stretch of Main is more than sufficient for cars. The drag-racers and motorcycle groups might not like it but as a resident idgaf about their noise pollution hobbies.
I also attended. all 3 are happening.

Wish streetcar could get full priority and that more or the route could be marked as dedicated lanes.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by GRID »

langosta wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:21 am
Critical_Mass wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:47 am
8. East side of Main between Pershing and S. Crown Center will finally gain a sidewalk. Sounds like there will be a dedicated bike lane uphill on the west side.
This is excellent news. Is this in addition to a dedicated streetcar-only segment thru this stretch? Or is that no longer part of the plan?
The current construction 'road diet' is proving that even a two-lane road thru this stretch of Main is more than sufficient for cars. The drag-racers and motorcycle groups might not like it but as a resident idgaf about their noise pollution hobbies.
I also attended. all 3 are happening.

Wish streetcar could get full priority and that more or the route could be marked as dedicated lanes.
Yeah, the signal priority where they just "hold" green lights etc never seems to work at all in any city. Why not have dedicated transit signals and as the trams approach a signalized intersection, everything else gives way for the trams to clear the intersections without delay.

Also, just a question. I see they are removing the max line on Grand. Does this mean Crown Center will no longer have direct high quality bus service? People will have to use whatever random buses that come through there? I worked in CC for some time and the Max stop was super nice. I'm really surprised they are not keeping the max line and spacing the stops to serve the gaps in the streetcar line. Grand should have its own higher end bus line even with the streetcar to serve the east side of downtown and crown center.

That's what they do along the DC streetcar with the very busy X2 bus route which runs the same route as the streetcar with articulated buses. They are must faster too so I think most people prefer the buses.
Last edited by GRID on Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by langosta »

GRID wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:51 am
langosta wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:21 am
Critical_Mass wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:47 am


This is excellent news. Is this in addition to a dedicated streetcar-only segment thru this stretch? Or is that no longer part of the plan?
The current construction 'road diet' is proving that even a two-lane road thru this stretch of Main is more than sufficient for cars. The drag-racers and motorcycle groups might not like it but as a resident idgaf about their noise pollution hobbies.
I also attended. all 3 are happening.

Wish streetcar could get full priority and that more or the route could be marked as dedicated lanes.
Yeah, the signal priority where they just "hold" green lights etc never seems to work at all in any city. Why not have dedicated transit signals and as the trams approach a signalized intersection, everything else gives way for the trams to clear the intersections without delay.

Also, just a question. I see they are removing the max line on Grand. Does this mean Crown Center will no longer have direct high quality bus service? People will have to use whatever random buses that come through there? I worked in CC for some time and the Max stop was super nice. I'm really surprised they are not keeping the max line and spacing the stops to serve the gaps in the streetcar line. Grand should have its own higher end bus line even with the streetcar to serve the east side of downtown and crown center.

That's what they do along the DC streetcar with the very busy X9 bus route which runs the same route with articulated buses.
Main MAX is being removed and a new Waldo express bus added. New one will be Plaza>UMKC>Brookside>Waldo. Not sure if there are other stops.

I do not know if Crown Center is getting a new standard bus service. I do know that MAX is costly to run and the $$ isn’t there right now to keep both services.

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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by GRID »

So Main St will not have any local bus route service to serve the gaps between streetcar stops? Yikes.

I hope people realize that more than just healthy millennials and people with a car in their luxury apartment garage use transit especially in an area like Midtown.

Really should keep the MAX in tact and have it compliment the streetcar. It could serve the east side of downtown and the gaps in the streetcar segment. Doesn't have to be max, but max is really just a regular city bus route. You don't have to have fancy stops, the buses are nice though. Since KC max buses are just regular buses, it shouldn't be any more costly than any other city bus route if you don't spend a bunch of money on the stops.
Last edited by GRID on Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:12 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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