OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

[GRID]

Is there a reason more of the stops are not like the Plaza stop? Larger stops like 39th/Westport seems like a good place for a larger platform/shelter type stop.

Higher ridership and lots of regional bus connections.

That's why I thought 39th might be a good spot for an ungraded station. The new river market station will be larger won't it? I also think union station should get upgraded station platforms. That's a busy stop.

[smh]

Is there a reason more of the stops are not like the Plaza stop? Larger stops like 39th/Westport seems like a good place for a larger platform/shelter type stop.

Higher ridership and lots of regional bus connections.

That's why I thought 39th might be a good spot for an ungraded station. The new river market station will be larger won't it? I also think union station should get upgraded station platforms. That's a busy stop.

I think it'd be great to see the original center platform concept return for Union Station. Slows cars, halves the crossing distance for pedestrians, established more of a "gateway" to downtown.

[DaveKCMO]

Union Station platforms will benefit by splitting the crowd in half -- separate stations for northbound and southbound travel. Right now, everyone crowds into one place.

[normalthings]

Union Station platforms will benefit by splitting the crowd in half -- separate stations for northbound and southbound travel. Right now, everyone crowds into one place.

Great news. Any chance the LINK has a usable entrance on that side in the future?

[flyingember]

Is there a reason more of the stops are not like the Plaza stop? Larger stops like 39th/Westport seems like a good place for a larger platform/shelter type stop.

Higher ridership and lots of regional bus connections.

401, 40, Main Max and 47 and it's marked as a transit center
https://ridekc.org/assets/uploads/docum ... p_1120.pdf

Every other crossing is two bus lines meeting

[flyingember]

Union Station platforms will benefit by splitting the crowd in half -- separate stations for northbound and southbound travel. Right now, everyone crowds into one place.

I would expect the crowds will 75-85% of today's numbers, per platform. That would be heading towards a doubling of ridership at the pair of platforms over the current single.

It's the network effect in play. When you expand a network total ridership at all existing nodes goes up.

That station is 100% NB traffic waiting, people getting off exit the platform quickly. A large percentage of people waiting there today should all shift to the new NB stop and there will be brand new people waiting for SB trains to take their place.

[normalthings]

Union Station platforms will benefit by splitting the crowd in half -- separate stations for northbound and southbound travel. Right now, everyone crowds into one place.

I would expect the crowds will 75-85% of today's numbers, per platform. That would be heading towards a doubling of ridership at the pair of platforms over the current single.

It's the network effect in play. When you expand a network total ridership at all existing nodes goes up.

That station is 100% NB traffic waiting, people getting off exit the platform quickly. A large percentage of people waiting there today should all shift to the new NB stop and there will be brand new people waiting for SB trains to take their place.

As we saw with phase 1, actual traffic was multiples higher than the official estimates. I think we will see the same with Phase 2. Probably too late to change the design to a central platform. Maybe not too late to add longer platforms on each side?

[flyingember]

This was opening year 2015 ridership forecasts

3rd/Grand 51
5th/Walnut 43
4th/Delaware 25
8th/Main 208
10th/Main 499
12th/Main 811
14th/Main 248
16th/Main 84
18th/Main 141
20th/Main 243
Union Station 333
Total 2,686 daily

Some point in 2017
City Market 504
River Market North 467
River Market West 379
North Loop NB 50
Library 166
Metro 246
Power & Light 301
Kauffman 141
Crossroads 208
Union Station
Total: 4923

2019 numbers
https://kcstreetcar.org/wp-content/uplo ... 190215.pdf

To find weekly averages, I added five weekday and two weekend numbers together and divided by 7
River Market trio: 1518
7th/Main: 136
9th/Main: 440
12th/Main: 561
14th/Main: 697
North Crossroads: 279
South Crossroads: 453
Union Station: 1490
Total daily: 5573

The 2019 ridership estimates for the new stops

Union Station: 1275
27th: 875
31st: 635
Armour: 870
39th: 705
43rd: 370
45th: 520
Plaza: 870
UMKC: 460
without Union Station, total daily: 5305. About half the ridership per mile

Of note, I find it hard to believe that 43rd and 45th together will be more popular than The Plaza.

[GRID]

Union Station platforms will benefit by splitting the crowd in half -- separate stations for northbound and southbound travel. Right now, everyone crowds into one place.

I would expect the crowds will 75-85% of today's numbers, per platform. That would be heading towards a doubling of ridership at the pair of platforms over the current single.

It's the network effect in play. When you expand a network total ridership at all existing nodes goes up.

That station is 100% NB traffic waiting, people getting off exit the platform quickly. A large percentage of people waiting there today should all shift to the new NB stop and there will be brand new people waiting for SB trains to take their place.

As we saw with phase 1, actual traffic was multiples higher than the official estimates. I think we will see the same with Phase 2. Probably too late to change the design to a central platform. Maybe not too late to add longer platforms on each side?

Union Station really should be very similar to the plaza stop with a central platform. Main on both sides of pershing is wide enough through there to push the rail to one side into dedicated transit right of way through the pershing intersection.

That would make the stop iconic and easier and safer to use. That's a major stop for tourists and bus connections. The cross walk is too far away, people will be running across main at the last second to catch trains or if they figure out they are on the wrong side.

I really don't understand why this is not being redone while they tear that area up and redo it. Would cost way more to improve it later.

[KCPowercat]

because the rail runs on the curb now I'd guess is part of it and moving those to the center and back out to the curb costs more. It's fine either way, the central station wouldn't be "iconic". People could even more easily get on the wrong direction with it being a central station versus each side.

[smh]

because the rail runs on the curb now I'd guess is part of it and moving those to the center and back out to the curb costs more. It's fine either way, the central station wouldn't be "iconic". People could even more easily get on the wrong direction with it being a central station versus each side.

Missing an opportunity to calm the street though.

[KCPowercat]

I can definitely see that as a benefit.

[GRID]

because the rail runs on the curb now I'd guess is part of it and moving those to the center and back out to the curb costs more. It's fine either way, the central station wouldn't be "iconic". People could even more easily get on the wrong direction with it being a central station versus each side.

Come on man. Think about the benefits, not just that it's iconic. I feel like you always run with words like that when that's only part of the big picture. Same with the new broadway bridge. We don't need a "pretty bridge".

You are taking the word iconic out of context.

The plaza stop is iconic to me because it's a properly designed transit stop on a busy road. It ties to the bike trail, has wide sidewalks, it's easy to see where both directions go and where to go for both directions. Buses are right there, it slows traffic, trains have the right of way in the area making the entire streetcar system stand out more as independent infrastructure and keep cars more separate. It's simply a better urban environment from a pedestrian standpoint than having two bus stop type tram stops on opposite sides of a six lane street several hundred feet from the intersection.

It cost more can't always be the excuse. With the amount of work that will go into adding track to Main through Pershing, the extra cost to bring the rail to one side at a center platform at union station out of a 250 million dollar project seems well worth it. You have plenty of room on Main and traffic is light (but currently too fast) to make that transition from curb running to center or one side and and back to curb running.

You could even keep it center or on one side all the way up the hill on main to Union Hill and then give that stretch of Main a much needed road diet to calm it and allow for easy ped crossings.

[GRID]

I actually forgot about the Link being right there. If that is properly designed into and a being part of the tram stop, that might work nearly as well. At least you have a way to cross the street without going to Pershing. But if I recall, access to the link is not always open. At the very least signs to direct people to the link for the other streetcar direction should be installed.

[DaveKCMO]

The new northbound Union Station stop measures 8' x 77.5'. That's just the raised segment. Plenty of space to wait beyond that, including areas that have overhead cover from the Link.

[KCPowercat]

I'm thinking a center station wouldn't have enough capacity to handle the crowds honestly. That was one of the concerns early on with many center running stations if I recall but at Union Station I could see that being a real concern.

I'd be fine either way. The road diet to slow people down is probably the best argument for a center station.

[GRID]

I'm thinking a center station wouldn't have enough capacity to handle the crowds honestly. That was one of the concerns early on with many center running stations if I recall but at Union Station I could see that being a real concern.

I'd be fine either way. The road diet to slow people down is probably the best argument for a center station.

Yeah, when I say center, I mean just a center platform, so a larger platform on one side of the street like what is proposed for the plaza.

I guess I'm just trying to get as much of the track into a right of way like near the plaza as possible. You get the track in its own right of way and calm the street down at the same time.

[flyingember]

People could even more easily get on the wrong direction with it being a central station versus each side.

I really find this hard to believe.

Nearly all center stops have signs with directions, route maps showing what stops are left, traffic is going the direction the train travels and such.

At the point you miss all these things you're just going to be confused no matter what is done and likely have some kind of one on one training via your social worker.

[benjaminkelley]

My personal experience both living in NYC and in KC. Wrong direction boarding on a island vs side platforms is probably about same. As in happens either way. I pretty frequently see people on KC buses or the streetcar having to get off and switch directions and we have no island platforms currently.

[earthling]

Am indifferent on center vs sidewalk platforms but KC's streetcar is more like a local service, not commuter, actually more like a horizontal elevator/escalator between districts. Probably better when morphed and integrated into the sidewalk and for those running to catch train, a little safer than running across traffic to island. I don't see any advantages having center islands in this case other than maybe slowing down traffic but road diets can do the same.