OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Update: Any new money you see tied to the COVID relief bill is simply advancing funds that have already been committed for the project. It would not reduce the local commitment, just speed up the federal funding available to the project.

Any chance on that accelerating the timeline? Or is that more so due to engineering and construction restraints than when funds are dispersed?

[normalthings]

Update: Any new money you see tied to the COVID relief bill is simply advancing funds that have already been committed for the project. It would not reduce the local commitment, just speed up the federal funding available to the project.

Disappointing news. Hopefully, we see that 20% contingency removed shortly and expanded grant programs for future projects. The re-introduction of earmarks may also benefit us.

[DaveKCMO]

The things that keep me up at night on this project have nothing to do with engineering or construction. They are, in order:

1) Lawsuits (one delayed the starter line for a year)
2) Council approvals (required and always subject to whatever hijinx is happening at a given moment)

The current contingency is 30%. Normal for pre-Trump FTA is 20%.

[flyingember]

To mention lawsuits, the Trolley Track encroachment lawsuit was on the scale of three years from end to end.

So if someone filed one today let's look at what 5% annual construction inflation over three years does.

$351 million becomes $406 million. That's a > 15% cost increase.

The contingency is completely necessary. With how many projects go dramatically over budget a 30% contingency should become the norm for big projects.

[smh]

ok

[normalthings]

To mention lawsuits, the Trolley Track encroachment lawsuit was on the scale of three years from end to end.

So if someone filed one today let's look at what 5% annual construction inflation over three years does.

$351 million becomes $406 million. That's a > 15% cost increase.

The contingency is completely necessary. With how many projects go dramatically over budget a 30% contingency should become the norm for big projects.

30% is pretty wild. I maintain the belief that transit projects should not have to do an environmental study and any transit line next to existing or a previous one should get automatic planning/regulatory approval (still needs safety checks)

[DaveKCMO]

Especially projects that are being built in existing public right-of-way like a street that already exists.

[flyingember]

I maintain the belief that transit projects should not have to do an environmental study and any transit line next to existing or a previous one should get automatic planning/regulatory approval (still needs safety checks)

That's stupid. None of this is important to do? That for some reason a property miles from any prior studies who cares what's special about it, ignore any and all concerns and just approve building.


Environmental justice, like making sure low income populations are well served by transit is part of the assessment.

Historic structure assessments, so the project doesn't destroy buildings it shouldn't.

Matching the visual character, like not building a substation that clashes with historic building.

Noise reviews so transit doesn't come in and cause problems with people living in the area

Hazardous material plans so the project can account for if there's storage tanks or dirty soil buried when the street was widened. Think about how many rails were unearthed downtown 60 years after they were buried. Surprises crop up all the time when digging.

Stop placement is even part of the environmental assessment. From the many discussions on the topic this is clearly of huge importance to people.

Imagine if the streetcar came in and destroyed the last historic something along the line or created delays when it dug into someone's basement from 1920.

[normalthings]

I maintain the belief that transit projects should not have to do an environmental study and any transit line next to existing or a previous one should get automatic planning/regulatory approval (still needs safety checks)

That's stupid. None of this is important to do? That for some reason a property miles from any prior studies who cares what's special about it, ignore any and all concerns and just approve building.


Environmental justice, like making sure low income populations are well served by transit is part of the assessment.

Historic structure assessments, so the project doesn't destroy buildings it shouldn't.
If you are building in an existing street or transit row, its not really a problem.

Matching the visual character, like not building a substation that clashes with historic building.
Dont think that substation design is a piece of the environmental review nor does it take an environmental review to make them look in place

Noise reviews so transit doesn't come in and cause problems with people living in the area

Transit is not very noisy. In fact, the CCROW study showed that the streetcar going behind people's houses would be quieter than the cars in front. Again, not an issue imho if built in existing street or transit row.

Hazardous material plans so the project can account for if there's storage tanks or dirty soil buried when the street was widened. Think about how many rails were unearthed downtown 60 years after they were buried. Surprises crop up all the time when digging.
I agree that a hazardous material plan is important.

Stop placement is even part of the environmental assessment. From the many discussions on the topic this is clearly of huge importance to people.
Is it, I scrolled through and don't see anything. If it is, I am not really sure why that needs to be a piece of an environmental study.

[flyingember]

Environmental justice, like making sure low income populations are well served by transit is part of the assessment.

Historic structure assessments, so the project doesn't destroy buildings it shouldn't.
If you are building in an existing street or transit row, its not really a problem.

The streetcar is expanding and rebuilding the row. It's stops are encroaching on the sidewalk. What if it will take away sidewalk seating from businesses, who is this impacting?

If this impacts a park in a minority area how is the project making up for the loss of park space? This was literally connected to topic of this expansion, how will the streetcar not take away a popular walking trail?

What if the street picked hosts a cultural festival which shuts down the street? A bus can reroute during an event, a streetcar can't. We already have this happen downtown on Grand with the starter line route, problems around closing Grand came up.

It's not just about transit, it's about looking at complete streets and what the streetcar means to it

Matching the visual character, like not building a substation that clashes with historic building.
Dont think that substation design is a piece of the environmental review nor does it take an environmental review to make them look in place

No, but matching the design to an area absolutely can be important. The blue McDonald's logo in Sedona would be a good example of this. There's a tram somewhere in Europe (Spain?) that has a wire free section because they refused to have the aesthetics of them through a historic area.

this change impacts the project cost which is important when validating the design for funding

Noise reviews so transit doesn't come in and cause problems with people living in the area

Transit is not very noisy. In fact, the CCROW study showed that the streetcar going behind people's houses would be quieter than the cars in front. Again, not an issue imho if built in existing street or transit row.

A rail transit horn is 90 decibles. That's like shouting every time you exit a stop. Imagine someone just assuming everyone living nearby knows this.
page 6
https://kcstreetcar.org/wp-content/uplo ... .16.19.pdf

It's also vibration and there's rules for how much vibration you can have near homes.

You really should read the documents so you understand the reasoning, it's all well documented why noise studies are done.

Hazardous material plans so the project can account for if there's storage tanks or dirty soil buried when the street was widened. Think about how many rails were unearthed downtown 60 years after they were buried. Surprises crop up all the time when digging.
I agree that a hazardous material plan is important.

Stop placement is even part of the environmental assessment. From the many discussions on the topic this is clearly of huge importance to people.
Is it, I scrolled through and don't see anything. If it is, I am not really sure why that needs to be a piece of an environmental study.

Think about flooding. If you place a stop downhill of a park you could get water runoff to it. Assessing the topography is important for stops.

Do you think a stop should be right outside a fire exit? What about next to a situation like the docks entrance for Bartle Hall?
If it's a more industrial area, locating next to a piece of loud industrial machinery would be a bad idea.

You're studying the environment to find out what impacts the plan and why you did what you did.

If this leads to adding stops this change impacts the project cost which is important when validating the design for funding. If something blocks adding a stop outside a minority neighborhood you have to be able to explain why

[DaveKCMO]

Council approved the bond sale. Loar and Hall voted no.

[normalthings]

Council approved the bond sale. Loar and Hall voted no.

What is the status of vehicle procurement?

[DaveKCMO]

Council approved the bond sale. Loar and Hall voted no.

What is the status of vehicle procurement?

Sole source. Easy peasy.

[normalthings]

Council approved the bond sale. Loar and Hall voted no.

What is the status of vehicle procurement?

Sole source. Easy peasy.

This may have been asked before but will the new vehicles be identical to the existing ones?

Would love to see the route map sticker replaced with an animated LED Screen.





Even a very basic LED station screen like the one on the NYC subway would be helpful.

[KCPowercat]

Council approved the bond sale. Loar and Hall voted no.

I hate myself for asking this but why?

[beautyfromashes]

Council approved the bond sale. Loar and Hall voted no.

I hate myself for asking this but why?

People always want to hate what someone else is excited about and they don’t understand.

[DaveKCMO]

It's more nuanced than that in both cases, but it's our reality.

[KCPowercat]

Those two drive me insane. They don't seem to add anything of value to any topic.

[flyingember]

Those two drive me insane. They don't seem to add anything of value to any topic.

They both ran unopposed. There wasn't any chance for people to pick the best candidate.

A political action committee that does nothing but finds candidates for city council so people at least have a choice would do a lot of good. It's far harder to win the vote without being a decent person if your primary is highly competitive. Not everyone can be the most conservative or most liberal.

We should have 3-5 people running for every seat.

[normalthings]

Oversized load permit issued for the delivery of the streetcar concrete electrical boxes. Each box will weight 50,000 lbs.

Start: March 2021
End: September 2021

https://compasskc.kcmo.org/EnerGov_Prod ... b=moreinfo