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bbqboy
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by bbqboy »

KCPowercat wrote:Isn't that their lightrail line? Portland makes me sick with jealousy BTW :)
Yes, that's LRV.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by flyingember »

ldai_phs wrote:Will the extension use the same 3 module streetcar, or will it use a longer variant or something like the Urbos LRV?
why would the city change it's vehicle type so quickly?

1. you don't need to redo the planning steps for the order. the city just has to make a new order of what it's already received. this speeds up getting new trains by months

2. no new training of staff to operate a new type of vehicle. no differences for the public to get used to. you can begin to train new staff on the starter line segment using the trains we have today.

3. Consistency in length means any single train can be serviced in any maintenance building. same parts, same procedures, same everything. which means no major integration testing of new vehicles, just make sure each specific train is working properly.

4. It allows for line by line appropriate sizing and expansion without caring where a train is at in the system. Houston does two train coupling on the red line and single train on green and purple. Charlotte started with single train platforms, already went to two and are working their way up to three trains long on the system for 2017.

https://www.charlotteagenda.com/39537/t ... s-crowded/

The smartest thing KC could do is to build the platforms and electrical system south of union station to support double trains then come back and start upgrading stops one at the time.

the possible hard ones to lengthen are 19th St NB, 16th St NB. the rest are very doable.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by dnweava »

haven't they already tested driving 2 streetcars linked together?
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normalthings
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by normalthings »

dnweava wrote:haven't they already tested driving 2 streetcars linked together?
I thought they can only be linked for emergencies, not as a day to day thing. Thats why I wondered if they would buy larger train sets. I am probably mistaken tho.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO »

ldai_phs wrote:
dnweava wrote:haven't they already tested driving 2 streetcars linked together?
I thought they can only be linked for emergencies, not as a day to day thing. Thats why I wondered if they would buy larger train sets. I am probably mistaken tho.
correct, the current vehicles will only be linked in emergencies.

if you wanted more capacity it actually makes sense to just run higher frequency rather than try longer vehicles (or we could do both!). every 10min is good for the US, but not that impressive by international standards.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by Eon Blue »

Doesn't bunching become a problem with higher frequencies? The Main Street Max encounters bunching issues on a daily basis, very nearly.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by flyingember »

Obviously the end goal is to have one big transit system that works together

Assuming 8 trains at 10 minute frequency vs 11 trains at 8 minute frequency, coupled 300-person trains vs more 150 person trains, coupling provides 2400 seats at once and frequency 1650 seats.
750 people is 4% of the Sprint Center in size.

A moderate wait for a better chance of hopping on by itself looks great. What's the point of getting to one's bus quickly if the wait from there goes up?
Less space but people get home quicker with more frequent busses is a different story.
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normalthings
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by normalthings »

flyingember wrote:Obviously the end goal is to have one big transit system that works together

Assuming 8 trains at 10 minute frequency vs 11 trains at 8 minute frequency, coupled 300-person trains vs more 150 person trains, coupling provides 2400 seats at once and frequency 1650 seats.
750 people is 4% of the Sprint Center in size.

A moderate wait for a better chance of hopping on by itself looks great. What's the point of getting to one's bus quickly if the wait from there goes up?
Less space but people get home quicker with more frequent busses is a different story.
Since 8 coupled trains at 10 min is actually 16 streetcars of course there is going to be more capacity then just 11 @ 8 min. Dave is right in that 16 alone would be a better option then 16 coupled.
Not taking cost into effect, I think it would make more sense to go somewhere in the middle, like what Dave also mentioned. More frequency and more capacity. 10 - 4 Car Urbos AXL's would allow 2560(256 per train) seats at once, while increasing frequency.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by flyingember »

ldai_phs wrote:10 - 4 Car Urbos AXL's would allow 2560(256 per train) seats at once,
If we wanted different train lengths why wouldn't we order the same train in a longer variant? It's the urbos 100 on this page. We have the smallest 3 car variant while it goes up to 9 car designs. The parking line and other clearance is based around the current train shape. There's no reason to even discuss redoing that work with this as an option
http://www.cafusa.com/en/productos-serv ... _urbos.php

I see the benefit to longer trains but think the flexibility of buying the same size and coupling makes more sense.

That hybrid system can run the same number of trains multiple ways. Like run double trains with less staff on Sunday and then have more frequent service during peak hours. every 12 becomes every 6 minutes. so you save on labor when use is light and provide great peak frequency.
Last edited by flyingember on Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:15 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO »

you'll have a real life test case as toronto moves from its smaller streetcars to longer (articulated) ones on the same routes.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO »

Image
earthling
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by earthling »

It's a hovertrain? ;)
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO »

earthling wrote:It's a hovertrain? ;)
a minor oversight! i asked for some quick photoshop hacks via twitter and this was the best i got.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by KCPowercat »

I think it should wind over in front of Fred P. Otts *ducks*
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO »

KCPowercat wrote:I think it should wind over in front of Fred P. Otts *ducks*
ha! shut your mouth!
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by chingon »

I think there should be a stop in front of the Plaza Library named the "R. Crosby Kemper III Memorial Station"
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by chingon »

chingon wrote:I think there should be a stop in front of the Plaza Library named the "R. Crosby Kemper III Memorial Station"
Seriously, though, as I've mentioned before, I do wish the route would turn off Main down Westport Road to Broadway then continue into the Plaza on JC Nichols PKWY, which would in fact run it right in front of P Otts.

I realize this isn't going to happen, but in my mind it would do wonders for east Westport, provide drop off and pick up at the heart of Westport's front door, and directly connect to St Luke's which is the largest employment center in the area. Plus I think the grade is less daunting.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by DaveKCMO »

westport can have a new front door: main street.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by mean »

I like the idea, but it will require a lot more work that just running a train down the street. I'm no urban planner, but between Main and about Central, Westport sucks. I can't really quantify it. It's just miserable to walk for reasons someone who studied this stuff as an undergrad can probably explain to me.
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Re: Phase 2 streetcar to UMKC

Post by flyingember »

I would rather take it down to UMKC, turn onto Volker and end this segment at Troost. Having a direct bus transfer at the MAX line would be so much more valuable. It will do help with confidence in that corridor and could help get federal funding since it's more transit centric.

And if you look at the distances a detour down Westport Rd is equal to about half that distance and a small segment on Brookside Blvd from Volker to 51st is about another third.

I never fully understood why we would take the train through a low density residential neighborhood over Troost if the goal is redevelopment.

It also drives the idea of providing access to jobs in the urban core from high need areas.

Main to Volker to Troost seems like it's has the greatest chance of improve the city.
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