Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Transportation topics in KC

What route should the third phase of streetcar expansion follow?

Linwood: Main to Michigan(71 Highway)
8
9%
Country Club ROW: UMKC to Brookside/Waldo
21
24%
Country Club ROW: UMKC through Brookside/Waldo to Prospect
13
15%
Linwood: Main to Emanuel Cleaver 2
8
9%
City/County Wide Rail Project
32
36%
Other
7
8%
 
Total votes: 89

flyingember
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9639
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by flyingember »

dukuboy1 wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:55 am
As we are dreaming pie in the sky ideas so to speak. I think it may be interesting to think of the TSC as rail commuter hub that could serve the Metro. Let's say the Royals move downtown, and the Chiefs stay put. You could create a new use for TSC where you could have rail that would service downtown and be a park and ride facility for the Eastern side of KC, especially suburbs out that way. Where rail would head off to downtown and even into JOCO where a lot of people work. Have a stop for Cerner, maybe something to get Burns & Mac over at 95th & Wornall, and into corporate Woods area. The route into downtown could then use street car to connect with Plaza/UMKC and even look to have connections to Northland routes, airport etc.

But Chiefs could also build a "Chiefs Kingdom" entertainment area where people could go for games. Maybe look to have like parking for tailgating and such for about 50K and have the other 30k or so using this transit. Kind of the best of both worlds. People can still tailgate, and others who do not want to hassle with it can ride the train.

Just a wild idea to see how we could maybe repurpose the TCS if/when the Royals end up downtown.
Why not put that at the VA?

The streetcar can end at a notable stop, the bus system has four lines end there today and it's not horribly difficult for track on the Rock Island Row to reach the spot. It's a great ending point for track.

Then the redevelopment/Chiefs site is served by a stop one down. If it's just the Chiefs, that's very few games so it can be a request stop.
This also puts the cost of going through Leeds on the county pitching in.

For games the small number who would ride could be served by a shuttle.

dukuboy1
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 346
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:02 pm

Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by dukuboy1 »

I was thinking more you would have a huge area of land to use that could be retrofitted to meet your needs. You have the footprint of The K, which would be gone, Plus the entire area around it. Chiefs may move their facilities closer to the stadium, Say right across where they K was, and you have more land out there for parking or whatever. Plus the vacant grassland that only gets parked on during Chiefs games. Just thought that the City & the Chiefs could get really creative with utilizing the entire parcel and using it and designing it in different ways. The VA is a fine location for a stop, but the land the TSC has could allow for big picture development that not only benefits the Chiefs but the city overall. And it may spur some additional development in the surrounding neighborhoods to the East and South. To the West & Northwest it mostly industrial and that is bigger issue to tackle for sure, but overall I think it could help the immediate area and help connect the Eastern suburbs more

User avatar
AlkaliAxel
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 545
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
Location: Brookside

Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by AlkaliAxel »

I just see going all the way out to TSC to develop is just creating more baseless sprawl.

User avatar
normalthings
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5614
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by normalthings »

AlkaliAxel wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:20 pm
I just see going all the way out to TSC to develop is just creating more baseless sprawl.
You must realize that sprawl is going to continue basically no matter what. What we can control if it is extremely car centric as it has been in the past or if it is semi-transit oriented. Building quality rail and BRT to the suburbs is how we make sure the sprawl that does occur is beter than what we have been seeing.

User avatar
AlkaliAxel
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 545
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:58 pm
Location: Brookside

Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by AlkaliAxel »

normalthings wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:30 pm
AlkaliAxel wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:20 pm
I just see going all the way out to TSC to develop is just creating more baseless sprawl.
You must realize that sprawl is going to continue basically no matter what. What we can control if it is extremely car centric as it has been in the past or if it is semi-transit oriented. Building quality rail and BRT to the suburbs is how we make sure the sprawl that does occur is beter than what we have been seeing.
I agree and I have no issue going to the suburbs with rail, but I also think we should densify where we can get it done and not actively feed the worst sprawl we have. Overland Park probably has plenty of better options for rail than feeding the useless TSC.

User avatar
FangKC
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 15819
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by FangKC »

Leeds wouldn't be such a dead gap if we could lure some big manufacturer back into the former Leeds GM plant that employed thousands. That building has rail lines going right into the building, so if some company that made streetcars might work there. The other idea is some company that builds manufactured housing components that can be trucked in sections to building sites, or shipped by rail to other cities.

User avatar
Anthony_Hugo98
New York Life
New York Life
Posts: 448
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:50 pm
Location: Vicenza, IT

Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

FangKC wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:15 pm
Leeds wouldn't be such a dead gap if we could lure some big manufacturer back into the former Leeds GM plant that employed thousands. That building has rail lines going right into the building, so if some company that made streetcars might work there. The other idea is some company that builds manufactured housing components that can be trucked in sections to building sites, or shipped by rail to other cities.
Elon Musk needs more Tesla factories, someone should tweet him :lol:
For all my military brothers and sisters out there, thanks for paving the way, ill do my best! AIRBORNE!

User avatar
FangKC
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 15819
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by FangKC »

Or maybe a factory that manufacturers those 3-D printer units they are using to innovate housing construction.

User avatar
alejandro46
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 661
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:24 pm
Location: King in the North(Land)

Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by alejandro46 »

Leeds has potential, with a lot of housing and giant industrial space that is very grimy and in need of revitalization. New underpasses or overpass would be needed for both rail tracks there which would be expensive. There is plenty of room to develop the land around TSC as an entertainment venue, park and ride, affordable housing, whatever, without taking up parking. Between the Linwood corridor, Leeds, the 31st/Emmanuel Clever and Troost/Linwood intersections, there are huge opportunities to catalyze development with rail tied to regional attractions like the Costco, the hospital and stadium, more than any of the other proposed routes.

This board is so pro-rehabing older buildings for the environment, etc. A new football stadium could only be built in Kansas out by the Legends, and even that may be difficult for the state to get behind and then KCMO is left with yet another giant, disused parking lot or empty stadium waiting for another strip mall or low rise to come along. And based on how terrible the surrounding area is, they probably would be waiting a long time.
Last edited by alejandro46 on Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

moderne
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 4619
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:50 pm
Location: Mount Hope

Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by moderne »

A roof over Arrowhead would enable this facility to be used year round for concerts, exhibitions, etc. This would help support the streetcar and any new development around TSC.

flyingember
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9639
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by flyingember »

moderne wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:25 pm
A roof over Arrowhead would enable this facility to be used year round for concerts, exhibitions, etc. This would help support the streetcar and any new development around TSC.
Wow, the roof is back.

User avatar
normalthings
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5614
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by normalthings »

moderne wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:25 pm
A roof over Arrowhead would enable this facility to be used year round for concerts, exhibitions, etc. This would help support the streetcar and any new development around TSC.
I'm not buying it. STL has a closed roof NFL stadium and its used a handful of times per year at most. Many of the events are things we seem to host without a closed NFL stadium

flyingember
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9639
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by flyingember »

normalthings wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:21 pm
moderne wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:25 pm
A roof over Arrowhead would enable this facility to be used year round for concerts, exhibitions, etc. This would help support the streetcar and any new development around TSC.
I'm not buying it. STL has a closed roof NFL stadium and its used a handful of times per year at most. Many of the events are things we seem to host without a closed NFL stadium
It's attached to the convention center at that, making it extremely easy to use.

User avatar
normalthings
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5614
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by normalthings »

flyingember wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:30 pm
normalthings wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:21 pm
moderne wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:25 pm
A roof over Arrowhead would enable this facility to be used year round for concerts, exhibitions, etc. This would help support the streetcar and any new development around TSC.
I'm not buying it. STL has a closed roof NFL stadium and its used a handful of times per year at most. Many of the events are things we seem to host without a closed NFL stadium
It's attached to the convention center at that, making it extremely easy to use.
With a tube connection to their 4 Seasons 5 Star hotel and another hotel. NFL Stadium with roof has very very few uses and I expect STL to bulldoze or abandon theirs once their "free maintenance" contract expires.

kboish
Broadway Square
Broadway Square
Posts: 2948
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:25 am
Location: West Plaza

Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by kboish »

Im pretty sure there was a proposal just the other day to bulldoze the dome.

https://www.stltoday.com/business/loca ... f796b.html

flyingember
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9639
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by flyingember »

normalthings wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:35 pm
flyingember wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:30 pm
normalthings wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:21 pm


I'm not buying it. STL has a closed roof NFL stadium and its used a handful of times per year at most. Many of the events are things we seem to host without a closed NFL stadium
It's attached to the convention center at that, making it extremely easy to use.
With a tube connection to their 4 Seasons 5 Star hotel and another hotel. NFL Stadium with roof has very very few uses and I expect STL to bulldoze or abandon theirs once their "free maintenance" contract expires.
Oh, and a train stop within a couple blocks that’s a few minute ride to multimodal for greyhound and Amtrak, connects to the airport and another state. It has everything going for it.

The baseball train stop is across the street from two large parking garages

If they’re not getting use it shows how unimportant a ballpark is around increasing transit use.

User avatar
FangKC
City Hall
City Hall
Posts: 15819
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 10:02 pm
Location: Old Northeast -- Indian Mound

Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by FangKC »

It's completely ridiculous any large city is discussing demolishing a domed stadium that opened 25-years-ago, and an entire convention center complex that is 44-years-old -- only to rebuild a completely new convention center.

What then? Oh, someone will insist they build another new football stadium to lure yet another team there. Then in 20 years, that team will leave.

User avatar
normalthings
Oak Tower
Oak Tower
Posts: 5614
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by normalthings »

Justice Horn tweeting support for E/W streetcar to TSC. He is a candidate for Jackson County legislature and is involved in the OneRideKC study.

Both @Royals and @Chiefs stadiums sit in Jackson County’s first district.

It’d be an amazing day for Kansas City if we saw the Royals stadium make its way downtown and the Chiefs stay out there and expand. Let’s also talk about an east to west KC streetcar to the stadiums!
https://twitter.com/JusticeHorn_?ref_sr ... r%5Eauthor

User avatar
alejandro46
Western Auto Lofts
Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 661
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:24 pm
Location: King in the North(Land)

Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by alejandro46 »

normalthings wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:20 pm
Justice Horn tweeting support for E/W streetcar to TSC. He is a candidate for Jackson County legislature and is involved in the OneRideKC study.

Both @Royals and @Chiefs stadiums sit in Jackson County’s first district.

It’d be an amazing day for Kansas City if we saw the Royals stadium make its way downtown and the Chiefs stay out there and expand. Let’s also talk about an east to west KC streetcar to the stadiums!
https://twitter.com/JusticeHorn_?ref_sr ... r%5Eauthor
That's interesting, glad at least somebody shares my thoughts for that. After all, it was studied in the NextRail plan and scored high. Too many people are freaking out on Redit and Twitter about a new DT stadium. Blah parking, blah blah parking parking, also eww let those billionares pay for it I won't pay a cent of my tax money- shout out to JoCo residents who also literally don't pay a cent too. Although I can't speak now living in Clay. Apparently, Jackson County residents are very pro-transit as Dave mentioned on here.

Anyways, let's do this:
1. Renew the existing Stadium Sales Tax, ideally increase to bi-state/regional
2. Renew and increase the Transit Tax, ideally bi-state/regional
3. TIF & CID for new Royals Stadium & Chiefs Stadium to capture increased sales.

Buy What:
1. New Kauffman Downtown in East Village, with a bunch of apartments/condos whatever. Make it more a neighborhood vs. Ballpark Village, we already have that in PnL.
2. Infrastructure improvements: Bike lanes/easy access to Streetcar line from new EV Stadium. Re-configure onramps on East Loop in alignment with Beyond the Loop goals to expedite getting cars out of DT quickly and efficently. New structured parking in EV, leverage underutilized parking through UC through creation of Parking Authority. Cap south loop. Remove N Loop.
3. Build the damn streetcar to Arrowhead, center running priority lights. Use it as a park and ride for downtown. Huge development catalyst for East Side redevelopment. Streetcar to NKC (more park & ride opportunities). Streetcar to CasionKC (more park and ride opportunities). It's a .4 mile walk from 12th & Main to 12th & Cherry. It's longer to go from the edge of Lot L in TSC to the nearest gate of Arrowhead.
4. Create Chiefs Entertainment village where K used to be and then build out residential and infrastructure improvements in the vacant and dilapidated area arround Arrowhead that are now connected by Streetcar to Downtown.
5. Implement OneKC Ride or whatever regional transit plan the RideKC is working on.

flyingember
Mark Twain Tower
Mark Twain Tower
Posts: 9639
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 am

Re: Phase Three Streetcar Expansion

Post by flyingember »

alejandro46 wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:21 pm
Streetcar to NKC (more park & ride opportunities).
You haven’t been in NKC in a while if you think there’s PnR opportunities along Burlington.

Especially not on the scale of hundreds of people an hour.

It’s best opportunity is to replace bus service so busses going downtown can have more coverage in the north instead.

Post Reply