KCRag Forum

The Great Climate Migration

Climate Change Will Force a New American Migration

https://www.propublica.org/article/cli ... ook#996123

FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:17 pm The Great Climate Migration

Climate Change Will Force a New American Migration

https://www.propublica.org/article/cli ... ook#996123

Good read and interesting perspective. Climate change is seriously causing major issues but noticed no mention of why the forest fires in CA have been so bad. Climate change can be blamed for some of it but the lack of forest management and fuel clearing is key.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:30 pm

FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:17 pm The Great Climate Migration

Climate Change Will Force a New American Migration

https://www.propublica.org/article/cli ... ook#996123

Good read and interesting perspective. Climate change is seriously causing major issues but noticed no mention of why the forest fires in CA have been so bad. Climate change can be blamed for some of it but the lack of forest management and fuel clearing is key.

Anecdotal but, my family used to work in forestry and logging in northern CA back in the 50’s-70’s, Sierra club was formed and pressed state to halt all forestry operations in Northern CA. Not only did this kill all logging industry in CA, this decimated the ability of the state to manage the forests. The logging industry maintained nearly all the fire break roads themselves, and they cleared thick underbrush while clearing through areas. People trying to tie climate change to the reason fires in the west have been so bad have never analyzed the issue at a macro scale IMO.

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:28 am

DColeKC wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:30 pm

FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:17 pm The Great Climate Migration

Climate Change Will Force a New American Migration

https://www.propublica.org/article/cli ... ook#996123

Good read and interesting perspective. Climate change is seriously causing major issues but noticed no mention of why the forest fires in CA have been so bad. Climate change can be blamed for some of it but the lack of forest management and fuel clearing is key.

Anecdotal but, my family used to work in forestry and logging in northern CA back in the 50’s-70’s, Sierra club was formed and pressed state to halt all forestry operations in Northern CA. Not only did this kill all logging industry in CA, this decimated the ability of the state to manage the forests. The logging industry maintained nearly all the fire break roads themselves, and they cleared thick underbrush while clearing through areas. People trying to tie climate change to the reason fires in the west have been so bad have never analyzed the issue at a macro scale IMO.

Climate change has its impact though. One of those impacts has been helping to expand the range of pine bark beetles which has put a lot of trees under stress making them more susceptible to fire. The other issue in the western US is the number people who have moved to rural setting in the mountains which forces authorities to fight fires they would otherwise let burn out. That said, forest fires were crazy in Alaska last summer and Anchorage reached 90 degrees for the first time in recorded history. BTW, I think the Sierra Club has actually been around since the late 1800's.

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:28 am
Anecdotal but, my family used to work in forestry and logging in northern CA back in the 50’s-70’s, Sierra club was formed and pressed state to halt all forestry operations in Northern CA. Not only did this kill all logging industry in CA, this decimated the ability of the state to manage the forests. The logging industry maintained nearly all the fire break roads themselves, and they cleared thick underbrush while clearing through areas. People trying to tie climate change to the reason fires in the west have been so bad have never analyzed the issue at a macro scale IMO.

The Sierra Club was founded in 1892.

Yes, their actions partly contributed but keep in mind that logging in that era was highly disruptive, nothing like what's seen today. Clear cut logging was more the norm, they were fighting against an extreme action.

Clearly you haven't looked at the macro scale either if your timeline is that off

flyingember wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:26 am

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:28 am
Anecdotal but, my family used to work in forestry and logging in northern CA back in the 50’s-70’s, Sierra club was formed and pressed state to halt all forestry operations in Northern CA. Not only did this kill all logging industry in CA, this decimated the ability of the state to manage the forests. The logging industry maintained nearly all the fire break roads themselves, and they cleared thick underbrush while clearing through areas. People trying to tie climate change to the reason fires in the west have been so bad have never analyzed the issue at a macro scale IMO.

The Sierra Club was founded in 1892.

Yes, their actions partly contributed but keep in mind that logging in that era was highly disruptive, nothing like what's seen today. Clear cut logging was more the norm, they were fighting against an extreme action.

Clearly you haven't looked at the macro scale either if your timeline is that off

I didn’t see where he mentioned what year the club was formed?

The 1994 Northwest Forest Plan meant to protest spotted owls is significant. 7 years later California saw the lowest amount of logging since the 40’s and its pretty much stayed at those low levels.

Native Americans have been saying how important controlled burns or allowing them to happen naturally is key to avoiding huge fires for a century.

The NW Forest plan removed less than 1% of forest service land from timber harvesting and most of that was outside California

https://www.fs.fed.us/r6/reo/landuse/

If removing less than 1% of less than 1% of land from logging can kill an industry they were already in decline.

It seems kinda bad faith to try to equate what Native Americans might say about controlled burns with industrial logging operations.

flyingember wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:26 am

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:28 am
Anecdotal but, my family used to work in forestry and logging in northern CA back in the 50’s-70’s, Sierra club was formed and pressed state to halt all forestry operations in Northern CA. Not only did this kill all logging industry in CA, this decimated the ability of the state to manage the forests. The logging industry maintained nearly all the fire break roads themselves, and they cleared thick underbrush while clearing through areas. People trying to tie climate change to the reason fires in the west have been so bad have never analyzed the issue at a macro scale IMO.

The Sierra Club was founded in 1892.

Yes, their actions partly contributed but keep in mind that logging in that era was highly disruptive, nothing like what's seen today. Clear cut logging was more the norm, they were fighting against an extreme action.

Clearly you haven't looked at the macro scale either if your timeline is that off

I was simply saying that they pressured state government and its regulation, I wasn’t saying they were formed during that time, simply that they began to rally around that cause, I should’ve clarified! I didn’t know the specific year, all I knew was it was around the 1880-1890’s sometime. Thank you for the specific!

phuqueue wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:55 am It seems kinda bad faith to try to equate what Native Americans might say about controlled burns with industrial logging operations.

Two different points, not trying to equate anything.

It's not been a secret that proper forest management is important and we have a few centuries of experience with this. It's also not shocking that often, well intended environmental regulations can lead to tragedy.