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Re: Politics

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:25 pm
by TheLastGentleman
DColeKC wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:21 pm
Black Americans don't know what the other side has to offer.
What does it offer?

Re: Politics

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:29 pm
by mean
Disenfranchisement, for one.

Re: Politics

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:42 pm
by DColeKC
TheLastGentleman wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:25 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:21 pm
Black Americans don't know what the other side has to offer.
What does it offer?
There's much to unpack but a few quick hitters I've read about young black conservatives and what they like about the republican party.

Equality of Opportunity (Not equality of outcome)
Learning that the democratic party has used a narrative of systemic, structural and institutional racism for power and votes.
“The sociological truths are that America, while still flawed in its race relations … is now the least racist white-majority society in the world; has a better record of legal protection of minorities than any other society, white or black; offers more opportunities to a greater number of black persons than any other society, including all those of Africa."

Is it hard to imagine that some black americans feel democratic policies have harmed their community the most? That doesn't make them "anti-black". Good on them for challenging what they've been told they're supposed to believe. I think more black republicans is a perfect way to actually get things done for that community.

Re: Politics

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:04 pm
by DColeKC
mean wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:29 pm
Disenfranchisement, for one.
Interested in how you explain this one? Republicans in Florida for example recently passed a bill allowing those who have been released from prison to vote, with the exception of murder and sex crimes. This is a big deal, because it's that state that currently home to the most amount of felons not allowed to vote. They did this knowing many of the felons would likely vote democrat.

The democrats are focused like usual, on top down big government policy while the republicans want to leave it up to the states.

The democrats, especially Clinton have a terrible record of mass incarceration. The prison population skyrocketed under Clinton and Biden was a huge part of that. Trump has actually worked on prison reform and it's hard to argue the "First Step Act" isn't a good thing.

“The truth is,” Mr. Biden had boasted a year earlier in a speech on the Senate floor, “every major crime bill since 1976 that’s come out of this Congress, every minor crime bill, has had the name of the Democratic senator from the State of Delaware: Joe Biden.”

Now we expect him to be voted in by 90% of the black population he spent decades locking up and be trusted to undo all those years of groundwork he spent laying that devastated black communities?

Re: Politics

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:08 pm
by grovester
DColeKC wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:04 pm
mean wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:29 pm
Disenfranchisement, for one.
Interested in how you explain this one? Republicans in Florida for example recently passed a bill allowing those who have been released from prison to vote, with the exception of murder and sex crimes. This is a big deal, because it's that state that currently home to the most amount of felons not allowed to vote. They did this knowing many of the felons would likely vote democrat.

That passed by referendum and the GOP has been trying to hamstring it ever since. JFC.

Re: Politics

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:29 pm
by DColeKC
grovester wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:08 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:04 pm
mean wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:29 pm
Disenfranchisement, for one.
Interested in how you explain this one? Republicans in Florida for example recently passed a bill allowing those who have been released from prison to vote, with the exception of murder and sex crimes. This is a big deal, because it's that state that currently home to the most amount of felons not allowed to vote. They did this knowing many of the felons would likely vote democrat.

That passed by referendum and the GOP has been trying to hamstring it ever since. JFC.
I know they have put some stipulations on it, like not eligible until all your court fees and any court ordered restitution is paid.

Re: Politics

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:35 pm
by grovester
DColeKC wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:29 pm
grovester wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:08 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:04 pm


Interested in how you explain this one? Republicans in Florida for example recently passed a bill allowing those who have been released from prison to vote, with the exception of murder and sex crimes. This is a big deal, because it's that state that currently home to the most amount of felons not allowed to vote. They did this knowing many of the felons would likely vote democrat.

That passed by referendum and the GOP has been trying to hamstring it ever since. JFC.
I know they have put some stipulations on it, like not eligible until all your court fees and any court ordered restitution is paid.
In other words, a poll tax. Can't believe African Americans aren't supporting it.

Re: Politics

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:39 pm
by DColeKC
grovester wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:35 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:29 pm
grovester wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:08 pm


That passed by referendum and the GOP has been trying to hamstring it ever since. JFC.
I know they have put some stipulations on it, like not eligible until all your court fees and any court ordered restitution is paid.
In other words, a poll tax. Can't believe African Americans aren't supporting it.
I see an argument about not paying the court fees, but I think there needs to be incentives for criminals to pay back restitution to victims if that was part of their sentencing. The victims deserve that much.

Re: Politics

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:20 pm
by grovester
Most of the time they are paying for the privilege of staying at the privately owned prison.

Really beside the point, the fact is the republicans blocked a passed referendum in order to suppress minority voting.

Re: Politics

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:02 pm
by mean
If it isn't clear to someone that republican obsession with nonexistent voter fraud is because they want to disenfranchise as many people who are unlikely to vote for them as possible--with the black vote being a relatively easily identifiable bloc of unlikely republican voters--then, like, I don't know what to tell you bro.

Re: Politics

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:33 pm
by DColeKC
mean wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:02 pm
If it isn't clear to someone that republican obsession with nonexistent voter fraud is because they want to disenfranchise as many people who are unlikely to vote for them as possible--with the black vote being a relatively easily identifiable bloc of unlikely republican voters--then, like, I don't know what to tell you bro.
You act like the Republican Party is the only one who stretches the laws to benefit them in elections? Both parties are dirty as hell in that respect.

And voter fraud isn’t nonexistent, perhaps not existent enough to cause a major change to a presidential election but it certainly exists. Just like there are issues with mail-in voting, once again, enough to influence or delay the outcome of a presidential election??? We will see.

Btw, I think you’re confusing disenfranchisement with voter suppression.

Re: Politics

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:07 pm
by DColeKC
grovester wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:20 pm
Most of the time they are paying for the privilege of staying at the privately owned prison.

Really beside the point, the fact is the republicans blocked a passed referendum in order to suppress minority voting.
Just like how I want private money out of political races, I’d like to see private money out of the prison system too.

Re: Politics

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:25 pm
by mean
Whoa there Bessie. I didn't say democrats were blameless. I said republicans were obsessed with nonexistent voter fraud because their aim, which they have admitted over and over again, is to gin up white grievance (they cheat!) and suppress minority voters. Which you completely ignored, ducked into some lame attempt at creating equivalence by pointing out that democrats are shitty for gerrymandering too, then tried to dodge into a minutia argument about suppression vs. disenfranchisement. You're Trumping, my dude.

And voter fraud isn't nonexistent in the sense that it literally doesn't exist, it's nonexistent in the sense that it's exceptionally rare to the point of it being ridiculous to be concerned about; and when it does happen, it's usually an accident. Will mail-in voting cause delays and problems? Well, sure, it'll be new and unprecedented. So, clearly, the best thing to do is to gut the USPS to ensure ballots won't make it on time so the incumbent can appeal to the supreme court after his minions (who don't mind going to the polls in person because they believe the whole pandemic is fake) have voted in person and his opponent's votes haven't yet been received. I genuinely don't want to believe this is true, but when I weigh the evidence it's like trying to believe in God or fairies or mermaids. I just can't. I have to live on the side of reality, man. What's true matters, and my evaluation of what is true is all I got. Even if I'm wrong. I might be!

But I don't think so.

Re: Politics

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:06 pm
by DColeKC
mean wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:25 pm
Whoa there Bessie. I didn't say democrats were blameless. I said republicans were obsessed with nonexistent voter fraud because their aim, which they have admitted over and over again, is to gin up white grievance (they cheat!) and suppress minority voters. Which you completely ignored, ducked into some lame attempt at creating equivalence by pointing out that democrats are shitty for gerrymandering too, then tried to dodge into a minutia argument about suppression vs. disenfranchisement. You're Trumping, my dude.

And voter fraud isn't nonexistent in the sense that it literally doesn't exist, it's nonexistent in the sense that it's exceptionally rare to the point of it being ridiculous to be concerned about; and when it does happen, it's usually an accident. Will mail-in voting cause delays and problems? Well, sure, it'll be new and unprecedented. So, clearly, the best thing to do is to gut the USPS to ensure ballots won't make it on time so the incumbent can appeal to the supreme court after his minions (who don't mind going to the polls in person because they believe the whole pandemic is fake) have voted in person and his opponent's votes haven't yet been received. I genuinely don't want to believe this is true, but when I weigh the evidence it's like trying to believe in God or fairies or mermaids. I just can't. I have to live on the side of reality, man. What's true matters, and my evaluation of what is true is all I got. Even if I'm wrong. I might be!

But I don't think so.
Actually, I didn’t defend the republicans historical efforts to affect votes. I just said both parties do that and it’s now apparent you were mistakenly talking about voter suppression which is a completely different tactic than disenfranchisement. It’s really not a trivial difference either.

As for voter fraud and mail-in issues. I don’t think up until this election they’ve been a massive issue. I don’t think voter fraud will be a major issue but the last thing we need this time around is any kind of uncertainty. I can’t imagine election night ending and this country not knowing who won. It’s scary.

Re: Politics

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:01 pm
by TheLastGentleman
DColeKC wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:06 pm
Actually, I didn’t defend the republicans historical efforts to affect votes. I just said both parties do that and it’s now apparent you were mistakenly talking about voter suppression which is a completely different tactic than disenfranchisement. It’s really not a trivial difference either.

As for voter fraud and mail-in issues. I don’t think up until this election they’ve been a massive issue. I don’t think voter fraud will be a major issue but the last thing we need this time around is any kind of uncertainty. I can’t imagine election night ending and this country not knowing who won. It’s scary.
If you have any evidence to back that up, please share. Donald Trump does not a reliable source, btw

Re: Politics

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:51 am
by flyingember
DColeKC wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:06 pm
I can’t imagine election night ending and this country not knowing who won. It’s scary.
Sure you can, just look back 20 years.

Re: Politics

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:16 am
by DColeKC
flyingember wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:51 am
DColeKC wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:06 pm
I can’t imagine election night ending and this country not knowing who won. It’s scary.
Sure you can, just look back 20 years.
I should have said I don’t want to imagine. I was meaning that on these times, last thing we need is a month of uncertainty trying to figure out who won. The hanging chads were bad enough and those were much calmer times.

Re: Politics

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:18 am
by DColeKC
TheLastGentleman wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:01 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:06 pm
Actually, I didn’t defend the republicans historical efforts to affect votes. I just said both parties do that and it’s now apparent you were mistakenly talking about voter suppression which is a completely different tactic than disenfranchisement. It’s really not a trivial difference either.

As for voter fraud and mail-in issues. I don’t think up until this election they’ve been a massive issue. I don’t think voter fraud will be a major issue but the last thing we need this time around is any kind of uncertainty. I can’t imagine election night ending and this country not knowing who won. It’s scary.
If you have any evidence to back that up, please share. Donald Trump does not a reliable source, btw
Evidence of what?

Re: Politics

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:45 am
by TheLastGentleman
DColeKC wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:18 am
As for voter fraud and mail-in issues. I don’t think up until this election they’ve been a massive issue.
What's different about this election?

Re: Politics

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:50 am
by DColeKC
1. Will likely include the largest amount of mail-in votes in history.

2. Arguably, due to the current state of unrest, the most important elections in modern times.

3. Taking place during a pandemic.