Politics

Come here to talk about topics that are not related to development, or even Kansas City.
DColeKC
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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

flyingember wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:33 pm
Back to media bias, this one claims left center
https://www.technocracyinc.org/wp-conte ... s-List.pdf

this one claims 3.5 on a scale of 1-5, making it somewhat left of center
https://www.nber.org/system/files/worki ... w12707.pdf

So there isn't even agreement on how left of center the paper is when it's left of center.
Got it, so my original comment that the Star leans left is accurate. Thanks.

Riverite
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Re: Politics

Post by Riverite »

DColeKC wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:44 pm
flyingember wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:35 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:32 pm


Once again, I'm not justifying or minimizing Trumps words, specifically his speech yesterday. Just stating my opinion that name calling based off political differences contributes to the hate and fuels the divide. I didn't randomly bring up the lefts side in this out of nowhere, I did when someone came in calling Trump supporters names.

Btw, where did you read they had guns, zip ties or explosives in the capital? I've only read about the pipe bombs and it sounds like those were dummy bombs.
Yes, they're using the Trump playbook. To be insulted when someone takes on your political tactics is an excuse, not a reason.


Yes, there were guns in the mob

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/06 ... c-protests
Police seized five guns and arrested at least 13 people during the violent protests involving supporters of President Trump at the Capitol on Wednesday, Chief Robert J. Contee of the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department said on Wednesday.
You really should do research, it took 15 seconds to prove you really didn't bother
You're exhausting. I did do a google search before I politely asked where he read the information. I didn't find anything that said the people who stormed the capital had guns. Seizing 5 guns from a crowd of 50,000 on federal property is illegal, breaking into the capital with a gun is serious level up.

I've lost all hope in your comprehension skills. Perhaps if you got it out of your head that I'm some kind of MAGA loving Trump apologist you'd see things differently.
Here is a photo with someone decked out with zip ties and what appears to be a gun on his right hip https://mobile.twitter.com/SethAbramson ... 3086729218

With the Harley thing he is spreading a baseless conspiracy after the capitol was infiltrated, he’s a traitor.

He is knowingly undermining our constitution. I don’t care if the paper is slightly left Wong or not they are right, multiple republicans told them to stop last night.

I’m gonna be pretty blunt people like you who support these politicians that undermine the constitution. Doesn’t matter you didn’t vote for trump this time, if you voted for Hawley or other republicans supporting these baseless conspiracy theories then you have damaged our republic.

Just stop. Seriously, if you consider yourself an American reflect on if what you are saying is actually true or not and if isn’t shut up. You seriously seem incapable of it. What you are doing right now is stoking the flames even more.

DColeKC
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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

Riverite wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:59 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:44 pm
flyingember wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:35 pm


Yes, they're using the Trump playbook. To be insulted when someone takes on your political tactics is an excuse, not a reason.


Yes, there were guns in the mob

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/06 ... c-protests



You really should do research, it took 15 seconds to prove you really didn't bother
You're exhausting. I did do a google search before I politely asked where he read the information. I didn't find anything that said the people who stormed the capital had guns. Seizing 5 guns from a crowd of 50,000 on federal property is illegal, breaking into the capital with a gun is serious level up.

I've lost all hope in your comprehension skills. Perhaps if you got it out of your head that I'm some kind of MAGA loving Trump apologist you'd see things differently.
Here is a photo with someone decked out with zip ties and what appears to be a gun on his right hip https://mobile.twitter.com/SethAbramson ... 3086729218

With the Harley thing he is spreading a baseless conspiracy after the capitol was infiltrated, he’s a traitor.

He is knowingly undermining our constitution. I don’t care if the paper is slightly left Wong or not they are right, multiple republicans told them to stop last night.

I’m gonna be pretty blunt people like you who support these politicians that undermine the constitution. Doesn’t matter you didn’t vote for trump this time, if you voted for Hawley or other republicans supporting these baseless conspiracy theories then you have damaged our republic.

Just stop. Seriously, if you consider yourself an American reflect on if what you are saying is actually true or not and if isn’t shut up. You seriously seem incapable of it. What you are doing right now is stoking the flames even more.
Thanks for the photo. I hope they catch him and prosecute him.

If me saying we need to not call each other names over our political beliefs is stoking the flames, I have no words for what your contribution is.

If you consider yourself an American, don't tell people to "shut up" because they don't see things like you do. Talk about damaging our republic, let's talk about telling people to shut up on an internet forum like a little kid at preschool. You can continue to utilize your free speech to say whatever the hell you want. I'm going to continue to use mine in saying many things have lead to the divisiveness in this country and one more time, that doesn't discount or lessen Trump and Trump followers have contributed.

Riverite
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Re: Politics

Post by Riverite »

DColeKC wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:07 pm
Riverite wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:59 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:44 pm


You're exhausting. I did do a google search before I politely asked where he read the information. I didn't find anything that said the people who stormed the capital had guns. Seizing 5 guns from a crowd of 50,000 on federal property is illegal, breaking into the capital with a gun is serious level up.

I've lost all hope in your comprehension skills. Perhaps if you got it out of your head that I'm some kind of MAGA loving Trump apologist you'd see things differently.
Here is a photo with someone decked out with zip ties and what appears to be a gun on his right hip https://mobile.twitter.com/SethAbramson ... 3086729218

With the Harley thing he is spreading a baseless conspiracy after the capitol was infiltrated, he’s a traitor.

He is knowingly undermining our constitution. I don’t care if the paper is slightly left Wong or not they are right, multiple republicans told them to stop last night.

I’m gonna be pretty blunt people like you who support these politicians that undermine the constitution. Doesn’t matter you didn’t vote for trump this time, if you voted for Hawley or other republicans supporting these baseless conspiracy theories then you have damaged our republic.

Just stop. Seriously, if you consider yourself an American reflect on if what you are saying is actually true or not and if isn’t shut up. You seriously seem incapable of it. What you are doing right now is stoking the flames even more.
Thanks for the photo. I hope they catch him and prosecute him.

If me saying we need to not call each other names over our political beliefs is stoking the flames, I have no words for what your contribution is.

If you consider yourself an American, don't tell people to "shut up" because they don't see things like you do. Talk about damaging our republic, let's talk about telling people to shut up on an internet forum like a little kid at preschool. You can continue to utilize your free speech to say whatever the hell you want. I'm going to continue to use mine in saying many things have lead to the divisiveness in this country and one more time, that doesn't discount or lessen Trump and Trump followers have contributed.
You just called me a name man, and were insinuating that I was a cat person at one point (not sure if that’s a bad thing or not, don’t really have an opinion on cats myself). You’re just intellectually dishonest at every turn.

I’m saying to stop because this is a tragedy, and if you think that political name calling is an issue then let’s talk about that another time and I’ll be happy to.
Trump instigated them, quit trying to look for loopholes, or just let people mourn.

People that seek to destroy democracy should not have a place in the democracy. Not really sure why that makes me radical or destroying our democracy.

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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

Riverite wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:17 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:07 pm
Riverite wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:59 pm


Here is a photo with someone decked out with zip ties and what appears to be a gun on his right hip https://mobile.twitter.com/SethAbramson ... 3086729218

With the Harley thing he is spreading a baseless conspiracy after the capitol was infiltrated, he’s a traitor.

He is knowingly undermining our constitution. I don’t care if the paper is slightly left Wong or not they are right, multiple republicans told them to stop last night.

I’m gonna be pretty blunt people like you who support these politicians that undermine the constitution. Doesn’t matter you didn’t vote for trump this time, if you voted for Hawley or other republicans supporting these baseless conspiracy theories then you have damaged our republic.

Just stop. Seriously, if you consider yourself an American reflect on if what you are saying is actually true or not and if isn’t shut up. You seriously seem incapable of it. What you are doing right now is stoking the flames even more.
Thanks for the photo. I hope they catch him and prosecute him.

If me saying we need to not call each other names over our political beliefs is stoking the flames, I have no words for what your contribution is.

If you consider yourself an American, don't tell people to "shut up" because they don't see things like you do. Talk about damaging our republic, let's talk about telling people to shut up on an internet forum like a little kid at preschool. You can continue to utilize your free speech to say whatever the hell you want. I'm going to continue to use mine in saying many things have lead to the divisiveness in this country and one more time, that doesn't discount or lessen Trump and Trump followers have contributed.
You just called me a name man, and were insinuating that I was a cat person at one point (not sure if that’s a bad thing or not, don’t really have an opinion on cats myself). You’re just intellectually dishonest at every turn.

I’m saying to stop because this is a tragedy, and if you think that political name calling is an issue then let’s talk about that another time and I’ll be happy to.
Trump instigated them, quit trying to look for loopholes, or just let people mourn.

People that seek to destroy democracy should not have a place in the democracy. Not really sure why that makes me radical or destroying our democracy.
I called you a dumpster fire in response to you calling me pathetic. Calling each other names and getting jabs in during a conversation isn't what I'm talking about. It's people calling an entire group of americans a name based on one thing, who they support politically. How is being honest and saying that what happened yesterday was more than just about and in reaction to Trumps speech? I'm not looking for any loopholes and not giving Trump even a sliver of slack on this. I will never understand why wanting to talk about the bigger picture means to some of you that I'm defending or letting Trump off the hook. It's that type of shortsightedness that got us where we are. People get wrapped up in there emotions and say things like, "This is a tragedy, let's not talk about what all lead to this for a few days so we can mourn".

It's not black and white. It's just not that simple.

Riverite
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Re: Politics

Post by Riverite »

I didn’t call you pathetic I said your love of trump and comebacks were, although I did call trump pathetic.
I just don’t understand this hampering on deplorables, was it the right thing to say about all trump voters no. Is trump a piece of shit, and was obviously one going into 2016 yes. So it begs the question why, was it the conspiracy theories, the wanting to set shit on fire, apathy, racism, didn’t think this stuff would affect them. I don’t know.

I do know that Democrats have been demonized for at least a decade, shit there is an entire conspiracy where they are freedom hating libtards who vote for pedophiles.

Why aren’t democrats disputing elections then, why only republicans seemingly unwilling to conceed

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Re: Politics

Post by Major KC Fan »

For those of you who were offended by my use of the term “deplorables” here’s the actual transcript from TIME magazine dated September 10, 2016:

Speaking at a fundraiser in New York City on Friday, Hillary Clinton said half of Donald Trump’s supporters belong in a “basket of deplorables” characterized by “racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic” views.

“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?” Clinton said. “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.”

She said the other half of Trump’s supporters “feel that the government has let them down” and are “desperate for change.”

“Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well,” she said.

I stand by that term when referring to the thugs that attacked our Capitol building yesterday. There are certainly many photos and videos of just such individuals who engaged in this seditious behavior. Thanks to the electronic media coverage that captured their actions I’m very eager to see their arrest and prosecution.

Riverite
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Re: Politics

Post by Riverite »

Major KC Fan wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:57 pm
For those of you who were offended by my use of the term “deplorables” here’s the actual transcript from TIME magazine dated September 10, 2016:

Speaking at a fundraiser in New York City on Friday, Hillary Clinton said half of Donald Trump’s supporters belong in a “basket of deplorables” characterized by “racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic” views.

“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?” Clinton said. “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.”

She said the other half of Trump’s supporters “feel that the government has let them down” and are “desperate for change.”

“Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well,” she said.

I stand by that term when referring to the thugs that attacked our Capitol building yesterday. There are certainly many photos and videos of just such individuals who engaged in this seditious behavior. Thanks to the electronic media coverage that captured their actions I’m very eager to see their arrest and prosecution.
Interesting this shows about half of republicans support the actions of yesterday

DColeKC
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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

Riverite wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:51 pm
I didn’t call you pathetic I said your love of trump and comebacks were, although I did call trump pathetic.
I just don’t understand this hampering on deplorables, was it the right thing to say about all trump voters no. Is trump a piece of shit, and was obviously one going into 2016 yes. So it begs the question why, was it the conspiracy theories, the wanting to set shit on fire, apathy, racism, didn’t think this stuff would affect them. I don’t know.

I do know that Democrats have been demonized for at least a decade, shit there is an entire conspiracy where they are freedom hating libtards who vote for pedophiles.

Why aren’t democrats disputing elections then, why only republicans seemingly unwilling to conceed
The democrats have disputed elections the last three times they've lost the Presidential race. 2000, 2005 and most recently in 2017 when they did exactly what the Republicans did yesterday by objecting to the certification of the votes. In 2005, Jerry Nadler said the election was "stolen" as he supported Barbara Boxer's objection of the Ohio electoral votes. The only reason those situations were less dramatic was because the losing candidate had already conceded. Besides being a piss poor loser, this is likely why Trump never did and never will concede. He's mad enough to think there's a chance he will be restored to power.

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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

Riverite wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:00 pm
Major KC Fan wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:57 pm
For those of you who were offended by my use of the term “deplorables” here’s the actual transcript from TIME magazine dated September 10, 2016:

Speaking at a fundraiser in New York City on Friday, Hillary Clinton said half of Donald Trump’s supporters belong in a “basket of deplorables” characterized by “racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic” views.

“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?” Clinton said. “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.”

She said the other half of Trump’s supporters “feel that the government has let them down” and are “desperate for change.”

“Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well,” she said.

I stand by that term when referring to the thugs that attacked our Capitol building yesterday. There are certainly many photos and videos of just such individuals who engaged in this seditious behavior. Thanks to the electronic media coverage that captured their actions I’m very eager to see their arrest and prosecution.
Interesting this shows about half of republicans support the actions of yesterday
How does this show half of republicans support the actions of yesterday? Because Clinton said so?

I've yet to see a single republican I know say anything less than yesterday was terrible. I've seen some try to blame Antifa, but they're not ok with what happened.

As for the deplorable term, Clinton started it and it became popular on social media to blindly call ANYONE who supports trump a deplorable, regardless of their values and moral standing.

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Re: Politics

Post by Major KC Fan »

I’m really not sure how she derived the percentages but I do know from what we (wife and I) are hearing from our friends, relatives and social media that there are certainly a large number of Trumpites that are praising the actions of yesterday-sad. I’m hoping they are merely praising the legal protest part of yesterday and not the attack itself, though from the coverage it looked like the rally crowd that traveled down the mall to the Capitol was fully involved in the assault. Carrying a Confederate flag through the Capitol makes them a deplorable in my book, especially when so many have given their service, including their lives, to protecting our union.

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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

Major KC Fan wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:10 pm
I’m really not sure how she derived the percentages but I do know from what we (wife and I) are hearing from our friends, relatives and social media that there are certainly a large number of Trumpites that are praising the actions of yesterday-sad. I’m hoping they are merely praising the legal protest part of yesterday and not the attack itself, though from the coverage it looked like the rally crowd that traveled down the mall to the Capitol was fully involved in the assault. Carrying a Confederate flag through the Capitol makes them a deplorable in my book, especially when so many have given their service, including their lives, to protecting our union.
I know a few local business owners who went and posted how proud they were to be a part of yesterdays protests. This was before they even understood what was happening at the Capital and they've clarified they were not apart of that and that they don't support the violence. I have no issue calling anyone who stormed the capital terrorist, thugs, criminal and piles of human shit. I'm name calling due to their actions, not their political beliefs.

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Re: Politics

Post by missingkc »

I want to apologize. I was off by two whole months on the date that Trump's thugs would take to the streets. My bad.

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Re: Politics

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

chaglang wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:34 pm
Anthony_Hugo98 wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:42 am
grovester wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:38 am


What part of what happened yesterday made you ask this question?
Nothing about yesterday, more so to do with both houses of Congress and their inability to pass a coherent stimulus bill, because both sides feel the need to constantly slip in BS that doesn’t pertain to the bill in the least.
If Jefferson City is any indication, term limits would have the opposite effect. It would guarantee a continual crop of inexperienced people who were sufficiently doctrinaire to navigate the primary system and who have no working relationship with other members of congress. That, I would imagine, would serve to increase gridlock.

It's strange that we see experience as a fault when it comes to running the government.
Honestly speaking, I’m just one who see’s government more as a hinderance than a help, so that might be where I’m coming from. I’m not arguing for people who have absolutely no experience be allowed to write legislation and what not, I simply think people shouldn’t be there for 3,4, and 5 decades. 4 terms as a senator should be more than sufficient. Company’s change leadership much the same way, helps to keep ideas fresh.
For all my military brothers and sisters out there, thanks for paving the way, ill do my best! AIRBORNE!

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chaglang
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Re: Politics

Post by chaglang »

It would be interesting to see a graph of how long a typical Congressional tenure is. I honestly don't know.

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Re: Politics

Post by grovester »

They could likely achieve the same result as term limits by requiring a change in committee chairmanship after a certain number of sessions.

DColeKC
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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

grovester wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:04 am
They could likely achieve the same result as term limits by requiring a change in committee chairmanship after a certain number of sessions.
I like that idea but these people get certain appointments simply based on how much money they raise for the party. It seems finding a way to get money/lobbyists out of politics would be the most impactful. I think that’s probably impossible though.

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Re: Politics

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

grovester wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:04 am
They could likely achieve the same result as term limits by requiring a change in committee chairmanship after a certain number of sessions.
I thoroughly agree on that, if it isn’t achievable to ever get term limits imposed, I think that would be the next best option.
For all my military brothers and sisters out there, thanks for paving the way, ill do my best! AIRBORNE!

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Re: Politics

Post by phuqueue »

DColeKC wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:32 pm
phuqueue wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:24 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:36 pm
Massive over simplification of my comment. There's no denying Trump has stirred the pot for all this time and his rhetoric has lead to this. My comment about the name calling was in reference to someone.... SURPRISE! Name Calling!

I don't think those on the right should call liberals "snowflakes" just as I don't think those on the left should call Trump voters "deplorable". If you all can't understand how that contributes to the divisiveness and feeds the beast, I don't understand.
It's one thing to "contribute to divisiveness" and something else to induce a riot. It seems weird to try to both sides this, but I dunno, maybe I missed where people got so fed up with being called snowflakes that they broke into the Capitol with zipties and guns and explosives.
Once again, I'm not justifying or minimizing Trumps words, specifically his speech yesterday. Just stating my opinion that name calling based off political differences contributes to the hate and fuels the divide. I didn't randomly bring up the lefts side in this out of nowhere, I did when someone came in calling Trump supporters names.
People on the internet like to treat the word "opinion" like it's some kind of get out of jail free card, but what is really happening here is that you offered your opinion and now you want to pretend that your opinion had no broader implications that you were trying to convey by offering it. And "implications" might really be too generous, because the opinion that you specifically stated was:
Years of the language you just used absolutely helped fuel today’s events. Calling his supporters (even the law abiding ones) deplorable and the duly elected POTUS names like King Orange for 4 years was one of many ingredients that lead to today’s explosive situation.
So you didn't just say that name calling "fuels the divide," you explicitly drew a causative link between name calling and the Capitol takeover. In assigning something less than 100% of the blame to Trump and his people, you are minimizing their role, to whatever extent you are allocating fault elsewhere. And you know, it's fine if your opinion is that mean liberals are x% responsible for what happened on Wednesday, but then people are going to expect you to defend that opinion instead of hiding behind the word "opinion."
Btw, where did you read they had guns, zip ties or explosives in the capital? I've only read about the pipe bombs and it sounds like those were dummy bombs.
Not sure whether any explosives actually made it into the building, but they were at the scene and were definitely not "dummies," DHS reported that the pipe bombs were viable. In addition to the pipe bombs, there were also Molotov cocktails, which have been reported elsewhere and are also noted by DHS.
DColeKC wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:06 pm
The democrats have disputed elections the last three times they've lost the Presidential race. 2000, 2005 and most recently in 2017 when they did exactly what the Republicans did yesterday by objecting to the certification of the votes. In 2005, Jerry Nadler said the election was "stolen" as he supported Barbara Boxer's objection of the Ohio electoral votes. The only reason those situations were less dramatic was because the losing candidate had already conceded. Besides being a piss poor loser, this is likely why Trump never did and never will concede. He's mad enough to think there's a chance he will be restored to power.
Ah yes, and I remember the Great Capitol Raid of '05 very well, I'll have to see if I can find the old pictures I got with my feet up on Dennis Hastert's desk.
DColeKC wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:08 pm
How does this show half of republicans support the actions of yesterday? Because Clinton said so?

I've yet to see a single republican I know say anything less than yesterday was terrible. I've seen some try to blame Antifa, but they're not ok with what happened.
A snap poll (only one I've seen so far) found 45% of Republicans approve.

Re: the term limits discussion, term limits are just an invitation for lobbyists to write their own legislation for inexperienced lawmakers to uncritically pass. If that doesn't sound like much of a change from the current situation in which lobbyists write their own legislation for long-time lawmakers whose campaigns they underwrite to uncritically pass, it isn't, which goes to show that term limits aren't the real solution.

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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

^
You can take what I said however you want. I know I didn't say it to ease the blame on Trump. I find it interesting none of you arguing with me can even admit that the rhetoric between citizens of opposite political beliefs didn't fuel the build up and anger of some of these Trump people? If you want to pretend that Trumps speech alone yesterday is the reason the Capital was broken into, fine, but so many things went into encouraging all those people to even attend the event.

I also see you seek to ignore the fact that Democrats have contested elections before. I'm not saying they've ever stormed a capital but they've certainly utilized the exact same technique the Republicans did this time around. Trying to act like Republicans are the only sore losers is factually bullshit.

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