Politics

Come here to talk about topics that are not related to development, or even Kansas City.
phuqueue
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Re: Politics

Post by phuqueue »

Moving a company between KS/MO within the metro is absolutely different from bringing in a company from Iowa or California or Washington -- to the extent that not all of the old employees will follow the company on a long distance move, that represents new jobs for existing KS/MO residents, and the employees that do follow the company are new residents/taxpayers. When a local company just moves into a new building ten miles away on the other side of the state line, they don't bring new jobs or new residents to the area. And while they theoretically bring additional tax revenue to their new jurisdiction, that revenue is offset by the incentives that were offered to bring them there in the first place. There is little or no net gain of any meaningful kind.
aknowledgeableperson
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Re: Politics

Post by aknowledgeableperson »

For you yes there is no difference. But if you are a local pol or serving in the state there is a gain when jobs move to the state just as there is a loss when jobs move away from the state, or local community.
It's a numbers game with the only important numbers being the number of jobs. Don't muddy the picture by talking about the cost to get those jobs.
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FangKC
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Re: Politics

Post by FangKC »

What those same politicians never mention though is that with the border hopping among companies, over a period of years, the net gain for either state is very small. 400 jobs move to Kansas. 500 jobs move to Missouri. 300 jobs move to Kansas. 200 jobs move to Missouri. Somewhere on this forum is a compilation of jobs that have moved back and forth--it think from a publication. When you balance the jobs that came from Missouri, and the jobs that came from Kansas, it isn't really helping either state because it is pretty balanced out. So, all the incentives are given, and neither state really has gained that much revenue from the other. The only true gains in revenue are for the companies that have moved, and don't have to pay taxes, or get a portion of their building and/or equipment financed, or paid for, by the new state.

I don't think we are going to see an agreement between states not to poach jobs within the Metro. The wealthy people who control these companies finance the political races in both states, and it's to their advantage to keep the status quo. The legislators aren't going to stop it, because their campaign donors don't want it to change.
phuqueue
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Re: Politics

Post by phuqueue »

aknowledgeableperson wrote:For you yes there is no difference. But if you are a local pol or serving in the state there is a gain when jobs move to the state just as there is a loss when jobs move away from the state, or local community.
It's a numbers game with the only important numbers being the number of jobs. Don't muddy the picture by talking about the cost to get those jobs.
This isn't a matter of perspective and everyone can have differing and equally valid opinions -- the "gain" is substantially or entirely an illusion, as a mathematical fact. Bringing jobs to your jurisdiction carries two direct benefits: it puts your constituents to work, and it generates new revenue -- unless, of course, it doesn't do either of those things. The politicians can claim they brought in x jobs, but the fact of the matter is that those jobs already existed and were already filled, meaning that the politicians haven't actually provided any extra jobs for their constituents. So whatever, who cares, those jobs are still generating new revenue for the city and state, right? Well, not if the incentives given to bring them across the state line cancel that revenue out. "Don't muddy the picture"? How nice it would be to just talk about all the great stuff we could have, without "muddying the picture" by fretting about the cost. There is a cost here, and the benefits only accrue to the politicians who can boast about their made up job-creation credentials during their next campaign.
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Highlander
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Re: Politics

Post by Highlander »

phuqueue wrote:
aknowledgeableperson wrote:For you yes there is no difference. But if you are a local pol or serving in the state there is a gain when jobs move to the state just as there is a loss when jobs move away from the state, or local community.
It's a numbers game with the only important numbers being the number of jobs. Don't muddy the picture by talking about the cost to get those jobs.
There is a cost here, and the benefits only accrue to the politicians who can boast about their made up job-creation credentials during their next campaign.
And I think the local populace is on to them when it comes down to the individual give-aways that get approved in places like Johnson County where everyone knows exactly how badly they are getting screwed - but the charlatans in Topeka can claim whatever they want and the people in Wichita and Hutchison who have no idea what's going on in the KC metro still buy the crap. It is indeed just numbers to them. How a fraud like Brownback ever got re-elected boggles my mind.
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bbqboy
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Re: Politics

Post by bbqboy »

Coming from someone in Texas that is both funny and telling.
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Highlander
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Re: Politics

Post by Highlander »

bbqboy wrote:Coming from someone in Texas that is both funny and telling.

Funny? It's not like I drive a suburban, have a concealed carry license, and spend my spare time writing state senators urging the state to secede from the Union.
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FangKC
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Re: Politics

Post by FangKC »

How Minneapolis Is Growing As Chicago Shrinks
The Twin Cities area is building connections, both transit and political, between its municipalities while sharing the financial burden. And it’s reaping the benefits.
Instead of competing on taxes, suburbs collaborate

One way the metro area is growing is that it’s working together as a metropolitan area, rather than a bunch of cities and towns fighting to move jobs a few miles here or there. Mancini Nichols cites a 40-year-old law called the Fiscal Disparities Act, which is a bit like a TIF district, or maybe its opposite. “The program puts 40 percent of the growth in the commercial-industrial tax base in each municipality annually into a seven-county regional pool and then distributes those funds back to participating municipalities and school districts based on tax base and population,” Mancini Nichols writes.

So everyone benefits, at least somewhat, from growth across the region, which also means that poorer municipalities have support beyond their own low tax bases. In and around Chicago, for instance, the effective residential property tax rates in the struggling municipalities of Harvey and Chicago Heights were 8.87 percent and 5.58 percent as of 2012; their commercial rates were 15.1 and 11.3 percent. Barrington’s rates, meanwhile, were 2.03 percent and 4.63 percent; in Glenview, 2.03 and 4.64. With less wealth to draw from, poor municipalities have to raise taxes, an impediment to growth that would lower them.

“They realized that inefficient competition—there’s no benefit,” Mancini Nichols says. “A suburb taking jobs from another suburb, or the city taking jobs from a suburb, what’s the net growth from that? There’s really none. And Minneapolis wanted to keep property taxes level for the entire region. They implemented this law in the ’70s, and it’s one of the few places in the country that has this type of program in effect. It seems to be working…. They’ve managed to reduce the gap in the property tax base between the richest and poorest municipalities in the region.

“In Chicago, our gap is one of the highest in the nation between our effective tax rates on property and the disparity between the richest and the poorest places. That really does inhibit development in a low-property-tax-wealth community, because your tax rates and effective property tax rates are going to be high. Minneapolis wanted to just eliminate that. At the time, they came together as a region to do that. It seems to me that mayors and leaders across Minneapolis, even those that do pay into the system, like it because they’re not worried about their neighbor poaching their jobs; they can focus on actual growth instead of, say, Naperville coming in and offering a tax incentive.”
http://tinyurl.com/l7tgenw
pash
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Re: Politics

Post by pash »

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pash
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Re: Politics

Post by pash »

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FangKC
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Re: Politics

Post by FangKC »

I found this sentence interesting. I don't think most Metro residents realize this.
It's a modest increase, but it would be the first such increase for the county since 2006. Johnson County has grown by 90,000 residents since then, and demand for county-supported services has grown since then. Johnson County has more residents under the poverty level than Wyandotte County. Yet county government has shrunk by nearly 500 people during the last decade.
http://www.pitch.com/FastPitch/archives ... -increases
mean
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Re: Politics

Post by mean »

JoCo has almost 6 times as many residents. Having more residents living in poverty as a result of simply having vastly larger number of residents is common sense. I'd be surprised if those numbers were very close to proportionate to the total number of residents, though.
pash
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Re: Politics

Post by pash »

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mean
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Re: Politics

Post by mean »

Fair enough. I was engaging in some highly questionable rounding, where in my head WyCo was "around 100k" and JoCo was "around 600k". Obviously the numbers in my head were wrong.

In any event, the poverty numbers are not close to being proportionate.
earthling
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Re: Politics

Post by earthling »

Curious Gallup poll vs early last decade...

Image

http://www.gallup.com/poll/183413/ameri ... aign=tiles

Image
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FangKC
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Re: Politics

Post by FangKC »

"Shit's Gonna Hit the Fan": Talking to a Billionaire About Class War

http://gawker.com/shits-gonna-hit-the-f ... 1711464448
earthling
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Re: Politics

Post by earthling »

Florida polls - Trump at same level as Cruz, Christie and ahead of Santorum. Bizarro world.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/
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FangKC
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Re: Politics

Post by FangKC »

Kansas sees surge of teachers leaving for other states, retiring

http://tinyurl.com/pspjdd6
earthling
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Re: Politics

Post by earthling »

Trump leading 4/5 polls.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... -3823.html

Might be very different if he were competing with just a few others but is yet another indicator how this whole process is often about who draws the most attention with sensationalism, which Trump has mastered. If the rest in GOP want him out of the picture, then some candidates should resign and give support to another candidate. A dozen+ players just gives whackos equal or more attention.

BTW, amusing that HuffPost coverage on Trump is mostly in the Entertainment section, not Politics.
flyingember
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Re: Politics

Post by flyingember »

Looks like there's 16 Republican candidates, a 17th expected soon with three more possible.

So it would be possible for a candidate to win a primary with < 10% of the vote.

That's how a party ends up with nothing but bad choices later on.
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