Urbanism, architecture, transit, strawmen, etc.

Come here to talk about topics that are not related to development, or even Kansas City.
kas1
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Re: Urbanism, architecture, transit, strawmen, etc.

Post by kas1 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:49 am

brewcrew1000 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:30 pm
"Houston is estimated to have 30 parking spaces for every resident."
This doesn't sound credible, and I can't find a source for this claim. Not all residents have cars (ie, many residents are children), so the number of parking spaces per car would be around 40. This necessarily implies that at any given time only 2.5% of the parking spaces in the city are occupied. That doesn't pass the smell test.

When accounting for driving lanes, a parking lot has around 1 space per 300 square feet. At 30 parking spaces per resident, that would mean Houston would have a square mile of parking lot for every 3100 residents. That also doesn't pass the smell test, as the amount of parking within the city limits would be greater than its total land area. I've never been to Houston, but I can't imagine there's enough structured parking there to pull off that feat while still having room for roads and buildings.

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FangKC
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Re: Urbanism, architecture, transit, strawmen, etc.

Post by FangKC » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:27 am

Here is the source:
THERE are said to be at least 105 million and maybe as many as 2 billion parking spaces in the United States.

A third of them are in parking lots, those asphalt deserts that we claim to hate but that proliferate for our convenience. One study says we’ve built eight parking spots for every car in the country. Houston is said to have 30 of them per resident. In “Rethinking a Lot,” a new study of parking, due out in March, Eran Ben-Joseph, a professor of urban planning at M.I.T., points out that “in some U.S. cities, parking lots cover more than a third of the land area, becoming the single most salient landscape feature of our built environment.”

Absent hard numbers Mr. Ben-Joseph settles on a compromise of 500 million parking spaces in the country, occupying some 3,590 square miles, or an area larger than Delaware and Rhode Island combined. If the correct number is 2 billion, we’re talking about four times that: Connecticut and Vermont.

Either way it’s a lot of pavement.
...
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/arts ... paces.html

kas1
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Re: Urbanism, architecture, transit, strawmen, etc.

Post by kas1 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:00 am

That article also doesn't indicate that they have a solid source for that statistic. Their use of passive voice actually suggests the opposite. Eight parking spaces per car makes sense just based on back-of-the-napkin math. Thirty per resident makes no sense.

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chaglang
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Re: Urbanism, architecture, transit, strawmen, etc.

Post by chaglang » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:33 am

Email the author and ask.

brewcrew1000
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Re: Urbanism, architecture, transit, strawmen, etc.

Post by brewcrew1000 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:24 am

All of the concrete and asphalt is one of the reasons why Houston has flooding issues because there is nowhere for the water to go

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Re: Urbanism, architecture, transit, strawmen, etc.

Post by flyingember » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:29 am

kas1 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:00 am
That article also doesn't indicate that they have a solid source for that statistic. Their use of passive voice actually suggests the opposite. Eight parking spaces per car makes sense just based on back-of-the-napkin math. Thirty per resident makes no sense.
I bet you're dramatically low.

So let's think about this. What parking does a resident have access to? Home, work, shopping, entertainment, school/college, city facilities, industrial companies, sports, parks, hotels, churches, restaurants and all the on street parking.



The average house probably provides three spots between a garage and driveway. Think of how many thousands of spots are available on street. If you have on street parking that probably goes up to four spots per person for every house.

I bet religious facilities provide another spot per person by themselves. Sports overlap other uses but think of how many spaces there are for a sports facility from youth soccer all the way to a pro team.

Apartment complexes have space for guests and staff and delivery vehicles. A walmart will have employee and vendor spaces on top of the customer spots. Take an average industrial facility, they'll have spots for delivery drivers.

And then there's the massive retail parking problem we have where they all have more than they ever use.


Maybe it's not 30 but I bet it's closer to 30 than 8.

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Re: Urbanism, architecture, transit, strawmen, etc.

Post by brewcrew1000 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:32 am

Good Catch, i didn't even think about the on street parking

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Re: Urbanism, architecture, transit, strawmen, etc.

Post by kas1 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:08 pm

flyingember wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:29 am
Maybe it's not 30 but I bet it's closer to 30 than 8.
Your habit of always saying the opposite of whatever the last person said, no matter what it is, is tiresome. There are studies showing 8-10 spaces per car. There's nothing supporting 30 per resident (ie, ~40 per car). And that includes your calculations where you conflate "parking spaces per house" with "parking spaces per person."

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chaglang
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Re: Urbanism, architecture, transit, strawmen, etc.

Post by chaglang » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:01 pm

You must be new here.

Also you should email the author who cited the 30 per resident number. That seems a more direct way of answering your question than polling us.

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Re: Urbanism, architecture, transit, strawmen, etc.

Post by flyingember » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:12 am

kas1 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:08 pm
flyingember wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:29 am
Maybe it's not 30 but I bet it's closer to 30 than 8.
Your habit of always saying the opposite of whatever the last person said, no matter what it is, is tiresome. There are studies showing 8-10 spaces per car. There's nothing supporting 30 per resident (ie, ~40 per car). And that includes your calculations where you conflate "parking spaces per house" with "parking spaces per person."
Remember that the 8 per is going to be the *average* across the whole country. You're averaging NYC and Houston together. You're averaging a walmart in Sikeston, MO with hundreds of spots with a bodega in LA without a single dedicated spot

I'm not confusing the two, one is part of the input into the other. Parking spaces per house is part of the parking spaces per person. If you have a street with 20 homes with three car garages and on street parking on both sides, 60 residents could have 200 parking spots between them so that increases the average for that area. A different street could have only on street parking and 200 residents could only have 100 parking spots.

Houston being designed for cars could have 30 spots while the nationwide average is only 8.

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Re: Urbanism, architecture, transit, strawmen, etc.

Post by flyingember » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:42 am

Also, remember that parking isn't limited to a specific town.

For example, there's a largely abandoned outlet mall in Odessa, MO, which has a population of 5200 that effectively provides an extra spot for 1/3 of the town.

Sure, the idea was it brought people to Odessa but that's a lot of parking spots to add to the number for that town. it raises the nationwide average.

The Kansas Speedway has more parking spots than residents in Liberty, MO. So in the same sense it raises the average of the entire metro area.

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