Koch Brothers behind effort to break unions in Wisconsin, elsewhere

[kcmeesha]

Welcome to share in what we have worked for, even if you're too blind to understand that.

I've been around this for a long time as well as lived where the working class has won and ruled the country for 70+ years. It wasn't pretty. My personal opinion is that the union movement rots and dies from the inside and nothing ruins it more than the obvious corruption and collaboration of its leadership. No Koch brothers can do what a union leaders do when they create a perception that they sold out their members for whatever short-term benefit they receive in return. It's also my personal opinion that unless you were around 1880's-1970's when unions had balls, I have nothing to thank you or any movement for. It's like thanking the nazi's for the moon landing.
That said, I am pretty sure that this argument is unwinnable, so I remain with my opinion and you remain with yours.
Lastly,I totally agree that the tax breaks for the wealthy and corporations, no criminal action for the perpetrators of various financial schemes, the system where these people are recycled through various public and private entities after multiple failures is ridiculous. Read the latest Matt Taibbi article where he talks about why no one on Wall Street was prosecuted for what we are dealing with now. But that doesn't make me like unions any more. I think equal pay and seniority-based-everything is horrible for productivity and morale,but again I am pretty sure you will disagree.

[grovester]

I would not consider myself a union fan, but the thought of a world without them would be far worse.  Just as the rest of society is coming down off our 20 year bender (except maybe for wall street), so to will the unions, giving up the fat.  Outlawing them is not going to help anyone in the long run.

[knucklehead]

From the Feb. 18, 1993, USA Today: "Looks like Dan Quayle was right. Last year's vice-presidential debate ... produced an accurate prediction from Quayle about the Clinton budget plan ... The final plan, according to Clinton officials, will hit those making $30,000 and above."

30K  of course that was 18 years ago, so that is 1993 dollars not 2011 dollars.

Also happens to be the last president to balance a budget.

I am no fan of Clinton. He to was a prostitute for big corporations. But your point is pretty weak.

Remember it was just 2000 when the big debate was what should we do with the huge surpluses. Gore recommended paying off the national debt. Bush said use it for tax cuts.

The Bush presidency took us from forecasts of zero national debt to the supposed edge of bankruptcy. Bush was a flaming disaster for every one but the super wealthy who don't give a dam about retirement security for middle class people.

[KC0KEK]

30K  of course that was 18 years ago, so that is 1993 dollars not 2011 dollars.

Also happens to be the last president to balance a budget.

I am no fan of Clinton. He to was a prostitute for big corporations. But your point is pretty weak.

No more weak than claiming sarcastically that "the Dems are all about raising taxes on people making 30 K a year."

$30K in 1993 is about $46K today. Proposing to raise taxes on people making as little as $46K probably is a non-starter politically.  

[Joe Smith]

No need. I'm quite very familiar with organized labor's financials. It's pretty easy to be, since the party of deregulation has made them the most heavily regulated, most scrutinized and most finanically transparent organizations in America.

I assure you that most unions do not spend 25% of their revenue on legislative agendas, though they'd be stronger and more effective if they did. The benefits of the 75% of dues you do pay are made possible by the 25% you don't.

People like you make me sincerely proud of this movement. We've carried the water for the entire middle and working class in this country for 100 years, regardless of their union status. I am proud that you and every other wage earner gets to reap the rewards of trade unionism and the labor movement in general. So from all of us, you are welcome. Welcome to share in what we have worked for, even if you're too blind to understand that.

The Koch brothers, however, are not.

Wow. The second coming really did start with you.

I wish you would of been around back in '89 or so when the Star slipped Local 41 a load of cash to stop reppin' the pressmen. I guess the guys at 41 didn't get that memo.

Maybe we should be thanking the Wobblies along with the UMW instead? 

[knucklehead]

No more weak than claiming sarcastically that "the Dems are all about raising taxes on people making 30 K a year."

$30K in 1993 is about $46K today. Proposing to raise taxes on people making as little as $46K probably is a non-starter politically.  

I know, sarcasm almost never works on the internet.

Knowing how the media usually handles these stories, my guess in the 1993 figure of 30 K was probably also taxable income, not gross income. Thus it would have been after the standard deduction and the personal exemption. So it is probably equivelent to 55K today.

I don't recommend raising taxes on people making 55K either. Ending the Bush tax cuts for people making over 250K is about right.

Unions are far from perfect. The UAW carried water for the auto companies in their fight to fend off stricter milage standards for autos. In my job I have seen internal memos about deals made between companies and unions to advance the company's political agenda in exchange for employee benefits. It happens. It would be shocking if it didn't. Unions sell out younger, yet to be hired workers, in favor of older workers (i.e. two or three tier benefit systems based on date of hire).

But on the whole, unions have improved the lot of working americans, whether they have ever belonged to a union or not.

[chrizow]

you just can't make this stuff up:

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/02/23/26 ... -halt.html

"On the recording, after Walker said he would be willing to meet with Democratic leaders, the caller said he should bring a baseball bat to negotiations.

Walker laughed and responded that he had "a slugger with my name on it."

The caller suggested he was thinking about "planting some troublemakers" among the protesters, and Walker said his administration had thought about doing that, too, but decided against it. Walker said the protests eventually would die because the media would stop covering them.

Walker told reporters the plan to bring in outside agitators was one of many ideas his supporters and aides have raised that were dismissed.

At the end of the call, the prankster says: "I'll tell you what, Scott, once you crush these bastards, I'll fly you out to Cali and really show you a good time."

"All right, that would be outstanding," Walker replies, adding that the standoff is "all about getting our freedoms back"

The caller responds: "Absolutely. And you know, we have a little bit of vested interest as well" and laughs."

[FangKC]

A long Bloomberg article on misdeeds of the Koch Brothers.

Koch Brothers flout law getting richer with secret Iran sales

"For six decades around the world, Koch Industries has blazed a path to riches -- in part, by making illicit payments to win contracts, trading with a terrorist state, fixing prices, neglecting safety and ignoring environmental regulations. At the same time, Charles and David Koch have promoted a form of government that interferes less with company actions."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-0 ... sales.html

[FangKC]

ABC News Brian Ross reports on Koch Brothers

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/koch-indu ... d=14676652

Click on video on left side: Tea Party-Donating Koch Brothers Under Fire

[zlohban]

ABC News Brian Ross reports on Koch Brothers

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/koch-indu ... d=14676652

Click on video on left side: Tea Party-Donating Koch Brothers Under Fire

It's all W fault....no Nixon ahhh I mean Reagan....some hick conservative I'm sure

[FangKC]

Ohio voters turn back laws passed by Ohio Legislature seeking to limit collective bargaining.

Voters moved to repeal a Republican-backed bill 62 percent to 38 percent.

I wonder if Wisconsin voters will do the same?

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/b ... e_kan_rdup

[Major KC Fan]

All I can add to this discussion is that if you value your yearly vacations, health plans and weekends please thank unions for standing up, and in some cases in our history, shedding their blood for workers to enjoy more in life than unsafe, overworked lives.

Bargaining rights are just that, bargaining by the workers and management. It's up to both sides to find agreement that allows for worker respect and employer profit--both will result in improved relations that can only lead to better profitability and growing employment (look at the Ford Motor example).

Unions have provided a framework of standards for the rest of the workforce/employers. I shudder to think what type of conditions and pay the workforce would have to endure under total management control.

For those that think they pay too much tax--think about what your taxes go for the next time you need fire or police assistance, an education for your children or the ability to drive from point A to point B without having to saddle up your horse!! There are unnecessary funds spent that represent waste in our tax-supported governments but it's up to the public to work to identify and reach agreement on how to address that waste--don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!

[chingon]

Ohio voters turn back laws passed by Ohio Legislature seeking to limit collective bargaining.

Voters moved to repeal a Republican-backed bill 62 percent to 38 percent.

I wonder if Wisconsin voters will do the same?

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/b ... e_kan_rdup

Yet the Governor of Kansas has invited Scott Walker to speak at a fundraiser in Wichita on Tuesday. What a shit bag.

[FangKC]

The Koch Brothers are probably behind that too.

[FangKC]

New poll in Wisconsin indicates a majority of voters there think Gov. Scott Walker should be recalled.

Of note is the change in Republican attitudes:

Key findings: "The growth in support for a recall came, surprisingly, from Republicans. In the spring, only 7% of Republicans supported recalling Walker but that grew to 24% in the fall.

Presently, the poll indicates that 92 percent of Democrats support recall this fall--versus 88 percent last spring.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2011/ ... alled.html

[coreyo]

All I can add to this discussion is that if you value your yearly vacations, health plans and weekends please thank unions for standing up, and in some cases in our history, shedding their blood for workers to enjoy more in life than unsafe, overworked lives.

Bargaining rights are just that, bargaining by the workers and management. It's up to both sides to find agreement that allows for worker respect and employer profit--both will result in improved relations that can only lead to better profitability and growing employment (look at the Ford Motor example).

Unions have provided a framework of standards for the rest of the workforce/employers. I shudder to think what type of conditions and pay the workforce would have to endure under total management control.

For those that think they pay too much tax--think about what your taxes go for the next time you need fire or police assistance, an education for your children or the ability to drive from point A to point B without having to saddle up your horse!! There are unnecessary funds spent that represent waste in our tax-supported governments but it's up to the public to work to identify and reach agreement on how to address that waste--don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!

There's a huge difference between voluntary unions and unions with extraordinary rights.

No individual should be forced to join a union and companies shouldn't be forced to contract with only union workers.

If a group of individuals want to voluntarily join together and offer up their services to a company. That company should have the option to work with them or not based on what that group has to offer.