Politics

Come here to talk about topics that are not related to development, or even Kansas City.
flyingember
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Re: Politics

Post by flyingember »

im2kull wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:17 am
flyingember wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:04 am
They want to eat (ban) a gay wedding cake and speak about it too.
Are people ever going to stop perpetuating this false story?

I am extremely liberal, but EVEN I understand that the cake story was a NON ISSUE. The gay couple weren't refused service from the cake shop, the cake shop simply refused to make a CUSTOM cake with a dick and balls. They allowed the gay couple to choose any of their hundreds of other non-custom cakes that every customer has the option to choose.

There is NO comparison between that and the level of censorship that big tech is creating in todays world. In fact, not only is it ironic, it's disturbing that I seem to be the only liberal who realizes that a restriction of basic rights is occurring. Do we not want more and equal access?????

What's happening should scare everyone. Put your hypocrisy and partisan politics aside for one moment and use your damn brains.
The story was irrelevant, I was talking about the lawsuit

That lawsuit is completely valid not because of what the cake covered but because while a business might (and should) be controlled by laws, that the laws weren't applied evenly and fairly for this business the same as all others. It said the state must have one standard for all situations.

That's why it's a valid point, that some Conservatives want there to be a ban on controlling religious speech, so a business could remove/block religious content that doesn't meet the business' standards, but ban removing other speech, so they could never remove political content that doesn't meet a business' standards

It's hypocrisy

https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/c ... hts-commn/

flyingember
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Re: Politics

Post by flyingember »

DColeKC wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:25 am
Riverite wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:14 am
im2kull wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:17 am


Are people ever going to stop perpetuating this false story?

I am extremely liberal, but EVEN I understand that the cake story was a NON ISSUE. The gay couple weren't refused service from the cake shop, the cake shop simply refused to make a CUSTOM cake with a dick and balls. They allowed the gay couple to choose any of their hundreds of other non-custom cakes that every customer has the option to choose.

There is NO comparison between that and the level of censorship that big tech is creating in todays world. In fact, not only is it ironic, it's disturbing that I seem to be the only liberal who realizes that a restriction of basic rights is occurring. Do we not want more and equal access?????

What's happening should scare everyone. Put your hypocrisy and partisan politics aside for one moment and use your damn brains.


The thing is I’m not sure I’ve seen liberals advocating violence against elected officials, it might happen but I’m positive they would be banned incredibly quickly as should happen.


"Morning Joe" regular Donny Deutsch saying that "people need to start taking to the street."
Rep. Ayanna Pressley, (D-MA) saying, "There needs to be unrest in the streets for as long as there's unrest in our lives."
Actor Johnny Depp asking, "When was the last time an actor assassinated a president?"
CNN's Chris Cuomo asking, "show me where it says protesters are supposed to be polite and peaceful?"
MSNBC's Nicolle Wallace and former Attorney General Eric Holder condoning violence in the streets.
Kathy Griffin's infamous photoshoot holding a bloody Trump head by the hair and rapper Snoop Dogg using a toy gun to shoot a clown dressed as President Trump.
Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) telling protesters to harass supporters of the Trump administration.
Madonna saying, "I have thought, an awful lot, about blowing up the White House."

Nancy Pelosi, "I just don’t know why there aren’t uprisings all over the country. Maybe there will be"
Again, if you're not going to bother to do research, you just look like you don't care. You literally copy-pasted a transcrapt from a video posted by a member of the Trump family.
people need to start taking to the street."
where does this one say anything about violence?
Rep. Ayanna Pressley, (D-MA) saying, "There needs to be unrest in the streets for as long as there's unrest in our lives."
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... hey-endor/
This was about peaceful protest
Actor Johnny Depp asking, "When was the last time an actor assassinated a president?"
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... nt-195265/
UPDATE 2: Depp has apologized for his comments. “I apologize for the bad joke I attempted last night in poor taste about President Trump,” he told People. “It did not come out as intended, and I intended no malice. I was only trying to amuse, not to harm anyone.”

"Please, show me where it says that protests are supposed to be polite and peaceful," he said. "Because I can show you that outraged citizens are what made the country what she is and led to any major milestone. To be honest, this is not a tranquil time."

"Too many see the protests as the problem," he said. "No, the problem is what forced your fellow citizens to take the streets. Persistent and poisonous inequities and injustice."
Define the alternatives.
To assume there's only one alternative and "loud and disruptive" is the same as "violent" is wrong

Kathy Griffin's infamous photoshoot holding a bloody Trump head by the hair and rapper Snoop Dogg using a toy gun to shoot a clown dressed as President Trump.
https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2015/06/ ... his-job-2/
It's about a poster of Obama being hung
Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) telling protesters to harass supporters of the Trump administration.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politi ... 864052.php
Madonna saying, "I have thought, an awful lot, about blowing up the White House."
This is the kind of the freedom of speech that Conservatives want online platforms to never remove

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Anthony_Hugo98
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Re: Politics

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

chaglang wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:45 pm
A+ thread hijack.
I do try, I’m always happy to Segway into things that doubt boil everyone’s blood!
For all my military brothers and sisters out there, thanks for paving the way, ill do my best! AIRBORNE!

DColeKC
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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

flyingember wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:46 am
DColeKC wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:25 am
Riverite wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:14 am




The thing is I’m not sure I’ve seen liberals advocating violence against elected officials, it might happen but I’m positive they would be banned incredibly quickly as should happen.


"Morning Joe" regular Donny Deutsch saying that "people need to start taking to the street."
Rep. Ayanna Pressley, (D-MA) saying, "There needs to be unrest in the streets for as long as there's unrest in our lives."
Actor Johnny Depp asking, "When was the last time an actor assassinated a president?"
CNN's Chris Cuomo asking, "show me where it says protesters are supposed to be polite and peaceful?"
MSNBC's Nicolle Wallace and former Attorney General Eric Holder condoning violence in the streets.
Kathy Griffin's infamous photoshoot holding a bloody Trump head by the hair and rapper Snoop Dogg using a toy gun to shoot a clown dressed as President Trump.
Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) telling protesters to harass supporters of the Trump administration.
Madonna saying, "I have thought, an awful lot, about blowing up the White House."

Nancy Pelosi, "I just don’t know why there aren’t uprisings all over the country. Maybe there will be"
Again, if you're not going to bother to do research, you just look like you don't care. You literally copy-pasted a transcrapt from a video posted by a member of the Trump family.
people need to start taking to the street."
where does this one say anything about violence?
Rep. Ayanna Pressley, (D-MA) saying, "There needs to be unrest in the streets for as long as there's unrest in our lives."
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... hey-endor/
This was about peaceful protest
Actor Johnny Depp asking, "When was the last time an actor assassinated a president?"
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... nt-195265/
UPDATE 2: Depp has apologized for his comments. “I apologize for the bad joke I attempted last night in poor taste about President Trump,” he told People. “It did not come out as intended, and I intended no malice. I was only trying to amuse, not to harm anyone.”

"Please, show me where it says that protests are supposed to be polite and peaceful," he said. "Because I can show you that outraged citizens are what made the country what she is and led to any major milestone. To be honest, this is not a tranquil time."

"Too many see the protests as the problem," he said. "No, the problem is what forced your fellow citizens to take the streets. Persistent and poisonous inequities and injustice."
Define the alternatives.
To assume there's only one alternative and "loud and disruptive" is the same as "violent" is wrong

Kathy Griffin's infamous photoshoot holding a bloody Trump head by the hair and rapper Snoop Dogg using a toy gun to shoot a clown dressed as President Trump.
https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2015/06/ ... his-job-2/
It's about a poster of Obama being hung
Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) telling protesters to harass supporters of the Trump administration.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politi ... 864052.php
Madonna saying, "I have thought, an awful lot, about blowing up the White House."
This is the kind of the freedom of speech that Conservatives want online platforms to never remove
I did the research and I’m not taking the time to explain the context of every quote. Where in Trumps speech did he mention violence? Look how you’re so quick to say, “They apologized so it’s ok or well, loud and disruptive isn’t the same as violence. Madonna is just using her free speech to say she’s thought about blowing up the White House, that’s different than a conservative saying they’ve thought about blowing something up. She was just playing around....”

I copied and pasted those quotes just to get the hypocritical reaction I knew I’d get.

Riverite
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Posts: 602
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Re: Politics

Post by Riverite »

DColeKC wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:25 am
Riverite wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:14 am
im2kull wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:17 am


Are people ever going to stop perpetuating this false story?

I am extremely liberal, but EVEN I understand that the cake story was a NON ISSUE. The gay couple weren't refused service from the cake shop, the cake shop simply refused to make a CUSTOM cake with a dick and balls. They allowed the gay couple to choose any of their hundreds of other non-custom cakes that every customer has the option to choose.

There is NO comparison between that and the level of censorship that big tech is creating in todays world. In fact, not only is it ironic, it's disturbing that I seem to be the only liberal who realizes that a restriction of basic rights is occurring. Do we not want more and equal access?????

What's happening should scare everyone. Put your hypocrisy and partisan politics aside for one moment and use your damn brains.


The thing is I’m not sure I’ve seen liberals advocating violence against elected officials, it might happen but I’m positive they would be banned incredibly quickly as should happen.


"Morning Joe" regular Donny Deutsch saying that "people need to start taking to the street."
Rep. Ayanna Pressley, (D-MA) saying, "There needs to be unrest in the streets for as long as there's unrest in our lives."
Actor Johnny Depp asking, "When was the last time an actor assassinated a president?"
CNN's Chris Cuomo asking, "show me where it says protesters are supposed to be polite and peaceful?"
MSNBC's Nicolle Wallace and former Attorney General Eric Holder condoning violence in the streets.
Kathy Griffin's infamous photoshoot holding a bloody Trump head by the hair and rapper Snoop Dogg using a toy gun to shoot a clown dressed as President Trump.
Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) telling protesters to harass supporters of the Trump administration.
Madonna saying, "I have thought, an awful lot, about blowing up the White House."

Nancy Pelosi, "I just don’t know why there aren’t uprisings all over the country. Maybe there will be"
Okay so only the actors advocated violence against elected officials. Wasn’t Kathy Griffin rightfully blackballed over this? Also I don’t give a damn about Johnny Depp, he should be investigated either way. If Madonna and snoop did do that they should be investigated, I’m not backing down from my point I don’t think advocating violence against elected officials is right, and i don’t believe it to be protected by free speech.

Nancy Pelosi said this while children were being separated from their family, it’s a different context and shouldn’t be seen as saying that during BLM. It’s clear she was referring to protests, during that time. In hindsight not the right language, but she certainly wasn’t trying to fan violent flames at the time.

With cuomo he said he was quoting John Lewis. It depends on how you view protests, but I don’t see property as equal to life. I don’t agree with the damage but I certainly won’t say it’s the same as killing or attacking my democracy.

Maxine Walters was talking about a cabinet member in a restaurant, I don’t think it was a good thing to say.

I have no idea about msnbc I honestly don’t watch it.

Also thanks for quoting me out of turn, I was reflecting on my personal experience using social media. I’ve seen plenty of conservatives advocate violence but not any liberals disobedience sure but not violence. Wherever someone advocates rest assured that I would report it. Like I said in my earlier comment there are plenty of things I disagree with democrats on.

The issue right now is that a not insubstantial number of republicans voted to overturn election results based on a lie, directly after the capitol was over run.

Your obsession to make this about both sides is repugnant. It is one side, a large portion of one side advocated overturning a democratic election.

I’m not conflating it with all republicans, and those who didn’t knowingly lie about the election results, and try to overturn shouldnt have any issues. But 147 members of congress did.

Riverite
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Re: Politics

Post by Riverite »

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:50 am
chaglang wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:45 pm
A+ thread hijack.
I do try, I’m always happy to Segway into things that doubt boil everyone’s blood!
I don’t know mate, I feel like me saying I didn’t like Star Wars that much might’ve done that

Riverite
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Western Auto Lofts
Posts: 602
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:49 pm

Re: Politics

Post by Riverite »

DColeKC wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:07 am
flyingember wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:46 am
DColeKC wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:25 am



"Morning Joe" regular Donny Deutsch saying that "people need to start taking to the street."
Rep. Ayanna Pressley, (D-MA) saying, "There needs to be unrest in the streets for as long as there's unrest in our lives."
Actor Johnny Depp asking, "When was the last time an actor assassinated a president?"
CNN's Chris Cuomo asking, "show me where it says protesters are supposed to be polite and peaceful?"
MSNBC's Nicolle Wallace and former Attorney General Eric Holder condoning violence in the streets.
Kathy Griffin's infamous photoshoot holding a bloody Trump head by the hair and rapper Snoop Dogg using a toy gun to shoot a clown dressed as President Trump.
Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) telling protesters to harass supporters of the Trump administration.
Madonna saying, "I have thought, an awful lot, about blowing up the White House."

Nancy Pelosi, "I just don’t know why there aren’t uprisings all over the country. Maybe there will be"
Again, if you're not going to bother to do research, you just look like you don't care. You literally copy-pasted a transcrapt from a video posted by a member of the Trump family.
people need to start taking to the street."
where does this one say anything about violence?
Rep. Ayanna Pressley, (D-MA) saying, "There needs to be unrest in the streets for as long as there's unrest in our lives."
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... hey-endor/
This was about peaceful protest
Actor Johnny Depp asking, "When was the last time an actor assassinated a president?"
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... nt-195265/
UPDATE 2: Depp has apologized for his comments. “I apologize for the bad joke I attempted last night in poor taste about President Trump,” he told People. “It did not come out as intended, and I intended no malice. I was only trying to amuse, not to harm anyone.”

"Please, show me where it says that protests are supposed to be polite and peaceful," he said. "Because I can show you that outraged citizens are what made the country what she is and led to any major milestone. To be honest, this is not a tranquil time."

"Too many see the protests as the problem," he said. "No, the problem is what forced your fellow citizens to take the streets. Persistent and poisonous inequities and injustice."
Define the alternatives.
To assume there's only one alternative and "loud and disruptive" is the same as "violent" is wrong

Kathy Griffin's infamous photoshoot holding a bloody Trump head by the hair and rapper Snoop Dogg using a toy gun to shoot a clown dressed as President Trump.
https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2015/06/ ... his-job-2/
It's about a poster of Obama being hung
Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) telling protesters to harass supporters of the Trump administration.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politi ... 864052.php
Madonna saying, "I have thought, an awful lot, about blowing up the White House."
This is the kind of the freedom of speech that Conservatives want online platforms to never remove
I did the research and I’m not taking the time to explain the context of every quote. Where in Trumps speech did he mention violence? Look how you’re so quick to say, “They apologized so it’s ok or well, loud and disruptive isn’t the same as violence. Madonna is just using her free speech to say she’s thought about blowing up the White House, that’s different than a conservative saying they’ve thought about blowing something up. She was just playing around....”

I copied and pasted those quotes just to get the hypocritical reaction I knew I’d get.
This is the most corrupt election in the history, maybe of the world. You know, you could go third world countries, but I don’t think they had hundreds of thousands of votes and they don’t have voters for them. I mean, no matter where you go, nobody would think this. In fact, it’s so egregious, it’s so bad, that a lot of people don’t even believe it. It’s so crazy that people don’t even believe it. It can’t be true. So they don’t believe it. This is not just a matter of domestic politics, this is a matter of national security. So today, in addition to challenging the certification of the election, I’m calling on Congress and the state legislatures to quickly pass sweeping election reforms, and you better do it before we have no country left. Today is not the end. It’s just the beginning.”

I mean that’s pretty damning. He also did not tell them to stop for hours and told he loved them and that they are special.

I’m not a hypocrite you just lack an inability to understand context, or are too lazy to look at it.

If Democrats were egging on an insurrection then he’ll yeah I’d want it gone, if they baselessly said the election was stolen I’d want them gone.

Why do you needlessly defend republicans who do and say horrible things. This is why that party had fallen so far. They do not clean out their ranks when there is a tumor.

DColeKC
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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

Riverite wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:10 am
DColeKC wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:25 am
Riverite wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:14 am




The thing is I’m not sure I’ve seen liberals advocating violence against elected officials, it might happen but I’m positive they would be banned incredibly quickly as should happen.


"Morning Joe" regular Donny Deutsch saying that "people need to start taking to the street."
Rep. Ayanna Pressley, (D-MA) saying, "There needs to be unrest in the streets for as long as there's unrest in our lives."
Actor Johnny Depp asking, "When was the last time an actor assassinated a president?"
CNN's Chris Cuomo asking, "show me where it says protesters are supposed to be polite and peaceful?"
MSNBC's Nicolle Wallace and former Attorney General Eric Holder condoning violence in the streets.
Kathy Griffin's infamous photoshoot holding a bloody Trump head by the hair and rapper Snoop Dogg using a toy gun to shoot a clown dressed as President Trump.
Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) telling protesters to harass supporters of the Trump administration.
Madonna saying, "I have thought, an awful lot, about blowing up the White House."

Nancy Pelosi, "I just don’t know why there aren’t uprisings all over the country. Maybe there will be"
Okay so only the actors advocated violence against elected officials. Wasn’t Kathy Griffin rightfully blackballed over this? Also I don’t give a damn about Johnny Depp, he should be investigated either way. If Madonna and snoop did do that they should be investigated, I’m not backing down from my point I don’t think advocating violence against elected officials is right, and i don’t believe it to be protected by free speech.

Nancy Pelosi said this while children were being separated from their family, it’s a different context and shouldn’t be seen as saying that during BLM. It’s clear she was referring to protests, during that time. In hindsight not the right language, but she certainly wasn’t trying to fan violent flames at the time.

With cuomo he said he was quoting John Lewis. It depends on how you view protests, but I don’t see property as equal to life. I don’t agree with the damage but I certainly won’t say it’s the same as killing or attacking my democracy.

Maxine Walters was talking about a cabinet member in a restaurant, I don’t think it was a good thing to say.

I have no idea about msnbc I honestly don’t watch it.

Also thanks for quoting me out of turn, I was reflecting on my personal experience using social media. I’ve seen plenty of conservatives advocate violence but not any liberals disobedience sure but not violence. Wherever someone advocates rest assured that I would report it. Like I said in my earlier comment there are plenty of things I disagree with democrats on.

The issue right now is that a not insubstantial number of republicans voted to overturn election results based on a lie, directly after the capitol was over run.

Your obsession to make this about both sides is repugnant. It is one side, a large portion of one side advocated overturning a democratic election.

I’m not conflating it with all republicans, and those who didn’t knowingly lie about the election results, and try to overturn shouldnt have any issues. But 147 members of congress did.
I didn’t know we could only post about BLM or election comments. Point is, people on both sides make comments that while perhaps barely stopping short of saying, “BE VIOLENT”, they could be seen as incitement if they were followed up with violence. Much how Trump shares blame for the capital riots because people in fact followed up on his comments despite him not directly calling for that.

I don’t have an obsession with making this anything. Maybe you’re obsessed with making this 100% about one side, and it’s not. One speech didn’t do this. Eventually, people with Harvard PhD’s will write about all that less up to the capital situation and maybe than, those on the left will accept the truth. Doubtful though considering how utterly hypocritical they are.

DColeKC
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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

Riverite wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:28 am
DColeKC wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:07 am
flyingember wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:46 am


Again, if you're not going to bother to do research, you just look like you don't care. You literally copy-pasted a transcrapt from a video posted by a member of the Trump family.


where does this one say anything about violence?


https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... hey-endor/
This was about peaceful protest


https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... nt-195265/
UPDATE 2: Depp has apologized for his comments. “I apologize for the bad joke I attempted last night in poor taste about President Trump,” he told People. “It did not come out as intended, and I intended no malice. I was only trying to amuse, not to harm anyone.”



Define the alternatives.
To assume there's only one alternative and "loud and disruptive" is the same as "violent" is wrong



https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2015/06/ ... his-job-2/
It's about a poster of Obama being hung


https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politi ... 864052.php


This is the kind of the freedom of speech that Conservatives want online platforms to never remove
I did the research and I’m not taking the time to explain the context of every quote. Where in Trumps speech did he mention violence? Look how you’re so quick to say, “They apologized so it’s ok or well, loud and disruptive isn’t the same as violence. Madonna is just using her free speech to say she’s thought about blowing up the White House, that’s different than a conservative saying they’ve thought about blowing something up. She was just playing around....”

I copied and pasted those quotes just to get the hypocritical reaction I knew I’d get.
This is the most corrupt election in the history, maybe of the world. You know, you could go third world countries, but I don’t think they had hundreds of thousands of votes and they don’t have voters for them. I mean, no matter where you go, nobody would think this. In fact, it’s so egregious, it’s so bad, that a lot of people don’t even believe it. It’s so crazy that people don’t even believe it. It can’t be true. So they don’t believe it. This is not just a matter of domestic politics, this is a matter of national security. So today, in addition to challenging the certification of the election, I’m calling on Congress and the state legislatures to quickly pass sweeping election reforms, and you better do it before we have no country left. Today is not the end. It’s just the beginning.”

I mean that’s pretty damning. He also did not tell them to stop for hours and told he loved them and that they are special.

I’m not a hypocrite you just lack an inability to understand context, or are too lazy to look at it.

If Democrats were egging on an insurrection then he’ll yeah I’d want it gone, if they baselessly said the election was stolen I’d want them gone.

Why do you needlessly defend republicans who do and say horrible things. This is why that party had fallen so far. They do not clean out their ranks when there is a tumor.
Disputing the results of the election, granted there is no fraud, isn’t inciting or encouraging violence directly. I’m not shocked some idiots took that as motivation to storm the capital. My pasted quotes from people on the left have one major difference. There wasn’t any riots directly after to tie directly to the words the spoke. I simply pointed out that Democrats do say things that could be construed as go be violent.

Where have I defended any republicans for saying horrible things? I am so fucking happy Trump is gone and wouldn’t be upset if they impeach him again if that means he can’t run in 2024. I know there’s some legal gray area about that. I think the Republican Party got ridiculous under his watch and want major change so maybe.... just maybe I can actually be comfortable and proud to pick a side for once.

DColeKC
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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

And to be clear, I absolutely agree that the republicans and Trump pushing the idea of a fraudulent election was the main cause of the capital being stormed. I just feel there was more than simply that alone that lead up to it. Both sides preach “unity” and unless there’s a 9/11, they’re full of shit.

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Highlander
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Re: Politics

Post by Highlander »

DColeKC wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:41 am
Riverite wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:28 am
DColeKC wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:07 am


I did the research and I’m not taking the time to explain the context of every quote. Where in Trumps speech did he mention violence? Look how you’re so quick to say, “They apologized so it’s ok or well, loud and disruptive isn’t the same as violence. Madonna is just using her free speech to say she’s thought about blowing up the White House, that’s different than a conservative saying they’ve thought about blowing something up. She was just playing around....”

I copied and pasted those quotes just to get the hypocritical reaction I knew I’d get.
This is the most corrupt election in the history, maybe of the world. You know, you could go third world countries, but I don’t think they had hundreds of thousands of votes and they don’t have voters for them. I mean, no matter where you go, nobody would think this. In fact, it’s so egregious, it’s so bad, that a lot of people don’t even believe it. It’s so crazy that people don’t even believe it. It can’t be true. So they don’t believe it. This is not just a matter of domestic politics, this is a matter of national security. So today, in addition to challenging the certification of the election, I’m calling on Congress and the state legislatures to quickly pass sweeping election reforms, and you better do it before we have no country left. Today is not the end. It’s just the beginning.”

I mean that’s pretty damning. He also did not tell them to stop for hours and told he loved them and that they are special.

I’m not a hypocrite you just lack an inability to understand context, or are too lazy to look at it.

If Democrats were egging on an insurrection then he’ll yeah I’d want it gone, if they baselessly said the election was stolen I’d want them gone.

Why do you needlessly defend republicans who do and say horrible things. This is why that party had fallen so far. They do not clean out their ranks when there is a tumor.
Disputing the results of the election, granted there is no fraud, isn’t inciting or encouraging violence directly. I’m not shocked some idiots took that as motivation to storm the capital. My pasted quotes from people on the left have one major difference. There wasn’t any riots directly after to tie directly to the words the spoke. I simply pointed out that Democrats do say things that could be construed as go be violent.

Where have I defended any republicans for saying horrible things? I am so fucking happy Trump is gone and wouldn’t be upset if they impeach him again if that means he can’t run in 2024. I know there’s some legal gray area about that. I think the Republican Party got ridiculous under his watch and want major change so maybe.... just maybe I can actually be comfortable and proud to pick a side for once.
Trump most likely isn't going to be criminally prosecuted for inciting a riot. His speech, while taken in context of the activities of the day, was probably guilty of inflaming tensions but would most likely be considered legitimate free speech under the 1st amendment. That said, he's the president and should be held to a much higher standard and I have no issues with using his activities since the election including his and his staff's involvement in the riot as grounds for impeachment. His behavior since the election has been repugnant and he's pretty much been guilty of dereliction of duty during this time span. Giuliani and Donald Jr were even more inflammatory than Trump himself in their speech.

I do think the president's recorded phone call to the Georgia secretary of state regarding changing the result of the Georgia election could be more problematic in terms of prosecution. What I heard was conspiracy to commit election fraud and I think he should be prosecuted for that. God knows how many other such phone calls were made to Arizona, Pennsylvannia, Michigan and Wisconsin.

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Re: Politics

Post by earthling »

If there were any possible credibility in Trump's challenge of enough fraud in elections to change the results, might be more challenging to charge him for 5 deaths but there was zero evidence brought up in court challenges because they knew there is no evidence, they didn't even try in courts, just blatant lying to their base. Five died essentially because of his insidious lies, insisting he won. If someone convinces another to act based on lies to others and results in deaths, they may be imprisoned. Trump should be treated no differently.

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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

earthling wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:30 pm
If there were any possible credibility in Trump's challenge of enough fraud in elections to change the results, might be more challenging to charge him for 5 deaths but there was zero evidence brought up in court challenges because they knew there is no evidence, they didn't even try in courts, just blatant lying to their base. Five died essentially because of his insidious lies. If someone convinces another to do harm to others, they are often imprisoned. Trump should be treated no differently.
I’m not exactly disagreeing with you but think it would be very hard to prove. There were some issues with the election but nothing out of the normal shit that happens every election cycle. From a few law professors I’ve seen on TV, they think it’s a stretch and also think impeachment is a bad idea and sets up a dangerous precedent.

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Re: Politics

Post by earthling »

Depends on the 'law professor'. Would be hard to prove intent to harm but not hard to prove he mislead his followers as a leader of the world with lies. And they acted based on his lies. And if Trump made any direct harmful threats to GOP or cabinet members not yet revealed, that may now change if Trump's character is on trial.

Also, McConnell may be changing his tune on impeachment as of hours ago. McConnell likely has much more insight on Trump's (possibly more dangerous) rampage moments that don't make it to the public and even DEMs unaware of.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/533 ... p-defender
Last edited by earthling on Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Politics

Post by Highlander »

earthling wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:30 pm
If there were any possible credibility in Trump's challenge of enough fraud in elections to change the results, might be more challenging to charge him for 5 deaths but there was zero evidence brought up in court challenges because they knew there is no evidence, they didn't even try in courts, just blatant lying to their base. Five died essentially because of his insidious lies, insisting he won. If someone convinces another to act based on lies to others and results in deaths, they may be imprisoned. Trump should be treated no differently.
I agree 100% in the position but just stating what I've read, even from liberal pundits. I think he should be impeached for fraud (among other things) but it would be hard to charge and imprison him since there isn't any specific language to actually foment a riot. The originators of the Pizza gate conspiracy have blood on their hands too (Pizza restaurant in question was attacked) but not sure if any charges were ever filed. It will be very interesting to see if Dominion's suit against Sydney Powell is successful, if so, I think that opens the possibility that Trump could also face libel charges.

Don Jr and Giuliani made much more direct statements inciting the riot than Trump himself on Jan 6 and I do believe both of them should see charges filed about inciting a riot.

I still believe Trump could and should be charged with any number of things that would land him in prison: Conspiracy to commit election fraud both in terms of the recorded phone to the Georgia SOS and the huge number of unsubstantiated charges of fraud he made in several states in his challenge to the election. He should also be charged with assault for his ordering of the clearing of Lafayette Square over the summer.

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Re: Politics

Post by earthling »

All it takes, a few GOP (previously) close to him with more insight than we have, willing to reveal in a trial.

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Re: Politics

Post by DColeKC »

earthling wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:32 pm
All it takes, a few GOP (previously) close to him with more insight than we have, willing to reveal in a trial.
But what sucks about that is they’re still scarred shitless to talk shit on Trump as his power to change votes will still be a thing for a few years.

Even though Trump is out in a few days, he’s still going to be in the media all the damn time for months.

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Re: Politics

Post by im2kull »

Riverite wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:14 am
I’ve never come under the impression you are liberal, you have defended trump at every turn.
You're not serious, are you? LOL

I voted for Bernie. That should tell you something.

I also RARELY post about politics in here, but when I do it's pretty plain as day that the only things I harp on are: 1. Personal responsibility and the lack thereof in today's world.. and 2. The clear hypocrisy in today's world.

Riverite wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:14 am
The thing is I’m not sure I’ve seen liberals advocating violence against elected officials, it might happen but I’m positive they would be banned incredibly quickly as should happen.
You must not have a Twitter account.

And for the record, the amount of hatred that I had spewed my way after voting for Bernie instead of Hillary and instead of Biden was and is far worse than anything I have ever had thrown my way from Republicans. I'll likely never vote democrat again after what happened during this year's primary. Not to mention 2016's. No thank you. I'm tired of career politicians playing games and devaluing my vote.

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Re: Politics

Post by Riverite »

im2kull wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:27 pm
Riverite wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:14 am
I’ve never come under the impression you are liberal, you have defended trump at every turn.
You're not serious, are you? LOL

I voted for Bernie. That should tell you something.

I also RARELY post about politics in here, but when I do it's pretty plain as day that the only things I harp on are: 1. Personal responsibility and the lack thereof in today's world.. and 2. The clear hypocrisy in today's world.

Riverite wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:14 am
The thing is I’m not sure I’ve seen liberals advocating violence against elected officials, it might happen but I’m positive they would be banned incredibly quickly as should happen.
You must not have a Twitter account.

And for the record, the amount of hatred that I had spewed my way after voting for Bernie instead of Hillary and instead of Biden was and is far worse than anything I have ever had thrown my way from Republicans. I'll likely never vote democrat again after what happened during this year's primary. Not to mention 2016's. No thank you. I'm tired of career politicians playing games and devaluing my vote.
So who did you vote for in the general?

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Re: Politics

Post by im2kull »

Riverite wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:44 am
im2kull wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:27 pm
Riverite wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:14 am
I’ve never come under the impression you are liberal, you have defended trump at every turn.
You're not serious, are you? LOL

I voted for Bernie. That should tell you something.

I also RARELY post about politics in here, but when I do it's pretty plain as day that the only things I harp on are: 1. Personal responsibility and the lack thereof in today's world.. and 2. The clear hypocrisy in today's world.

Riverite wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:14 am
The thing is I’m not sure I’ve seen liberals advocating violence against elected officials, it might happen but I’m positive they would be banned incredibly quickly as should happen.
You must not have a Twitter account.

And for the record, the amount of hatred that I had spewed my way after voting for Bernie instead of Hillary and instead of Biden was and is far worse than anything I have ever had thrown my way from Republicans. I'll likely never vote democrat again after what happened during this year's primary. Not to mention 2016's. No thank you. I'm tired of career politicians playing games and devaluing my vote.
So who did you vote for in the general?
Sanders. I'm not going to be a hypocrite and vote for someone phony that I don't believe in or care for (Biden.. same with Clinton). I'm always willing to stand on principal. Just a shame that more people aren't willing to stick to what they believe. Plays right into the establishments hands. Nothing will ever change if people keep doing that. 👌

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