Various restaurants worried about P&L

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:02 am

In Hearne's article today, many current restaurant owners are a bit scared of the new entertainment district. While I can see their concerns I think they are way overblown. Comparing this to the Plaza is way off base. What is the retail mix of the plaza, like 75% retail, 25% bars/restaurants? That's exact opposite of the P&L district.

Don't let a few chains scare you guys, if your product is solid it will survive....the P&L district is completely different and both can easily survive. I'd be more afraid if I was a westport bar as there will be more going out options that don't include drinking beer out of gas cans (Johnny Dare's new place)

DiggityDawg · Post by **DiggityDawg** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:25 am

KCPowercat wrote:In Hearne's article today

'Nuff said.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:31 am

very true. I'm reading the biz journal now and there is an article in there kind of stating the same thing.

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:33 am

I do understand their concerns though. We are talking bout opening quite a few restaurants in a compact area where few have survived in the past. The first 6 months are going to be crucial. They will need to have a solid, fool-proof game plan to make sure they deliver on their hype when the first patrons show up. Its vital that the first people downt there have a good experience so they can come back and bring their friends. They also need to do some heavy, heavy marketing to the workers in the office towers to get them to leave their cubicles and get on the street.

It would be very good if they can get a couple big conventions to use bartle in the months after the district is up and running and the arena is open. I know that VICA is scheduled for that summer, which brings in thousands of kids and quite a few business leaders. The CVB needs to hit the ground running to book a signature convention for the late summer/early fall after completion in order to get some good publicity. I wish the FFA would come back that fall. Wouldn't that be a coup?

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:39 am

They're just too big. You can't open all those places at once. You just can't do it. What are the odds of opening up 100 businesses at the same time and having them all be successful?

P+L is basically a "restaurant/entertainment mall." Shopping malls when built have 100 stores and they survive. Because the South Loop is a giant mess, it would take decades to develop it without TIF or conservatively. I'm not a fan of this style of development, but if it works-- great. Even if it doesn't, we have a cool district for other local stuff to move into. Besides Cordish will manage and own the area...let them worry about if there is room in the market.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:40 am

actually it sounds like most of these owners are worried about this new district running them out of business.

I don't see that as a problem....I'll still frequent all the restaurants I did and stay away from the poor ones like I always do.

Post by **chrizow** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:46 am

i am sure there might be a bit of a shake-up, but that's how it goes. KC seems to have an awful lot of restaurants. as such, the market is very competitive. i like competition, but not the kind where a chain comes in and kills all the local restaurants.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:59 am

I don't think that will be the case very often.....good restaurants survive...sure the new district will be the cool thing for a bit but a good solid independent restaurant will always have a market. The new restaurants in P&L will survive more from tourism, conventions, and something different for the suburbanites to see on a weekend than the normal applebees along with the downtown residents that will have some basic needs filled.

P&L would have to really try to not be successful I'd think.

scooterj · Post by **scooterj** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:13 am

I haven't read the articles but I don't think good restaurants have anything to worry about. Nearby restaurants might feel the pinch initially when everyoine goes to try the new places but then people will settle back into their routines. Downtown workers will still continue to go to their favorite delis or sandwich shops or food courts, and the Plaza isn't going away anytime soon.

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:35 am

weekends on the plaza, and many suburban restaurants, there is a wait, sometimes, quite long, for a table. So I think they'll do fine. I do hope that some of the office workers will stay around for dinner and/or happy hour to avoid the evening rush hour. Its really just going to take some creative marketing, but it definately doable.

ignatius · Post by **ignatius** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:42 am

I can see how the existing restuarants feel a little threatened but if their quality is higher than the touristy restuarants, they shouldn't have to worry. The downtown residents will continue to support the restaurants and the tourists/suburbadroids will do the plastic restaurants and eventuallly discover which are good.

It works this way on the Plaza. Very few who live on the Plaza go to places with plastic/salty touristy food such as Cheesecake, Changs, Canyon Cafe or Mi Cocina - not often anyway. Grand St., Reverse, Fooleries, Frankies get consistent visits from the hood because they have generally better quality than the plastic restaurants. Of course this is subjective but it does work out this way. McCormicks and Capital Grill do well with locals because they have quality.

Downtown restaurants just need to stay ahead of the touristy restaurants and they'll do well. Competition will be good for them. The district will draw 5-20X more people. If they delivery better quality than the district, they'll ultimiately get more customers than they have now.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:50 am

ig...how true...all my living on the plaza I went to the Factory 0 times, Changs maybe once, Canyon Cafe 0 & Mi Concina twice, once just to drink. I can't count the number of times I was at places like Fooleries, Falloon, Frankies, Hoolihans, etc.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:59 pm

My advice to mall restaurants or weak eateries located in the city:
Step up your game!

If ESPN Zone and McFadden's can put you out of business...so be it. There is no way a good, local original restaurant will be put out of business by a Hard Rock Cafe. For the first 4-5 months it will be tough for local restaurants as Kansas Citians try out the new stuff, but if your restaurant is good-- customers come back.

BTW, if P+L was simply a massive expansion of the Plaza area called Plaza West Entertainment District, would these restaurants still have a right to bitch and complain? Are they next going to complain and say that 39th St. shouldn't get bigger better restaurants because it detracts from their area? Part of business in a free market system is competition. Step up your game or get out of the business.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:03 pm

I agree with that. the only part of their argument I can see is this area getting tax breaks to build....so they are at an advantage of not paying full price to get up and running.

If I ran some crap chain in the plaza I'd be scared...but that's about it.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:06 pm

KCPowercat wrote:I agree with that. the only part of their argument I can see is this area getting tax breaks to build....so they are at an advantage of not paying full price to get up and running.

If I ran some crap chain in the plaza I'd be scared...but that's about it.

I thought about this too, but practically anyone can apply for TIF and move downtown. Hell, people on the Plaza are getting TIFs. Kirkwood got TIFs and they're having millionaires move in. Apply for TIF and build a new restaurant if you want.

Post by **dangerboy** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:08 pm

trailerkid wrote:Part of business in a free market system is competition.

Interesting idea of free market when you have virtually 100% private investment (e.g. Zin, Bulldog) competing with places like Hard Rock that will receive massive tax subsidies. It's a legitimate issue for the small businessmen who invested their own money in area that was once questionable, and without much help from a city that will now be subsidizing their competitors.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:09 pm

dangerboy wrote:
trailerkid wrote:Part of business in a free market system is competition.
Interesting idea of free market when you have virtually 100% private investment (e.g. Zin, Bulldog) competing with places like Hard Rock that will receive massive tax subsidies. It's a legitimate issue for the small businessmen who invested their own money in area that was once questionable, and without much help from a city that will now be subsidizing their competitors.

Give me a break. Hard Rock vs. Zin? And Best Buy is going to put Music Exchange on Broadway out of business too?

If Zin applied for TIF or other awards that it's eligible for and didn't get them, then that is another issue.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:13 pm

tk...true anybody can get a tax break

If zin is worried about some massive chain, they need to rethink their focus.....I would never think "Maybe I should go to Zin" but instead end up going to something that would be in P&L District from what I've seen on the site plans....just two seperate things.

P&L will draw more people downtown that could then stumble onto Zin when they may never have seen or heard of it unless they went down there drawn by P&L.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:16 pm

It's also important to realize that P+L will dump Joe and Suzy Jo Co or Larry and Loretta Lee's Summit off at the South Loop. There's some territorial stuff going on. New, shiny, suburban-friendly, chain development being put next to a burgeoning arts district. A complete culture clash.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:19 pm

I wouldn't label the new district completely suburban, it has great urban pieces...but I know what you are saying about dropping Mr. and Mrs. Suburb and Tom Tourist downtown.

the crossroads will be fine and will grow because of what's happening in the loop.

Change scares everybody.

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