P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

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DColeKC
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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by DColeKC »

KCPowercat wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:42 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:29 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:24 am
You understand that until last go bond vote we all maintained the public sidewalk in front of it other right?

Of course the city didn't say anything about the cars. City staff is notoriously lackadaisical towards pedestrian safety.
If you’d like to reach out to someone at the city and ask, feel free. I’m positive about who owns what as this was carefully negotiated before the agreement was signed.
It's really moot to the entire point. It does seem odd that if P&L owns those sidewalks that it wasn't THE major talking point of the westport folks bid to get their sidewalks. It was never mentioned once.

Please pass along that neighbors don't like cars on our sidewalks. It's not safe.
I think this is a very particular subset of the overall downtown population. I’d be interested to poll all downtown residents and see if this is a issue for them. I’ll pass it along.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by earthling »

^General rule of thumb for urban guidelines...

- Pedestrians are highest priority
- Bikes/Scooters second
- Cars third

Downtown biz and developers (and Midtown) should do the best they can to adhere to this.

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DColeKC
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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by DColeKC »

earthling wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:22 pm
^General rule of thumb for urban guidelines...

- Pedestrians are highest priority
- Bikes/Scooters second
- Cars third

Downtown biz and developers (and Midtown) should do the best they can to adhere to this.
Completely agree and during my time in that position we worked hard to always find compromises to satisfy everyone. Cordish also won three ULI awards during my time with them. They’re very literally urban master planners and developers.

For example, we would shut down a street to ensure pedestrian safety, but then the complaints from drivers came in. It’s a never ending battle to operate a successful district and nearly impossible to not upset one small group of people.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by DaveKCMO »

But don’t ask about transit access...

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DColeKC
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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by DColeKC »

DaveKCMO wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:42 am
But don’t ask about transit access...
Dave, please elaborate.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by KCPowercat »

Grab the popcorn

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by DaveKCMO »

Cordish didn't want bus stops in P&L. There still aren't any there. And, no, I don't count the streetcar stop as being "pro transit".

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by flyingember »

DColeKC wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:51 pm
Cordish also won three ULI awards during my time with them. They’re very literally urban master planners and developers.
All of Cordish's most recent ULI awards are for the same thing

KC Live
The Power Plant Live (Baltimore)
Fourth Street Live! (Louisville)

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DColeKC
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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

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DaveKCMO wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:04 pm
Cordish didn't want bus stops in P&L. There still aren't any there. And, no, I don't count the streetcar stop as being "pro transit".
How many customers of the district are coming down via the city bus? There are bus stops within very close proximity. Customers of the district frequently utilize the streetcar.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

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flyingember wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:57 am
DColeKC wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:51 pm
Cordish also won three ULI awards during my time with them. They’re very literally urban master planners and developers.
All of Cordish's most recent ULI awards are for the same thing

KC Live
The Power Plant Live (Baltimore)
Fourth Street Live! (Louisville)
There’s a few more not listed but yes, basically awarded for revitalizing run down areas. My point was they have a track record. One of my best memories working for them was getting to pick David Cordish’s brain. He served as the director of the Urban Development grant program under Carter and Reagan. Man is an open book.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by DaveKCMO »

DColeKC wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:33 am
DaveKCMO wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:04 pm
Cordish didn't want bus stops in P&L. There still aren't any there. And, no, I don't count the streetcar stop as being "pro transit".
How many customers of the district are coming down via the city bus? There are bus stops within very close proximity. Customers of the district frequently utilize the streetcar.
IT'S PUBLIC SPACE AND DOESN'T REQUIRE JUSTIFICATION.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by DColeKC »

DaveKCMO wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:46 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:33 am
DaveKCMO wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:04 pm
Cordish didn't want bus stops in P&L. There still aren't any there. And, no, I don't count the streetcar stop as being "pro transit".
How many customers of the district are coming down via the city bus? There are bus stops within very close proximity. Customers of the district frequently utilize the streetcar.
IT'S PUBLIC SPACE AND DOESN'T REQUIRE JUSTIFICATION.
Understandable stance coming from you.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by KCPowercat »

Ummm that's a pretty common stance among urban deeign and planning?

Comments like that is why there is a love hate relationship with Cordish and the development overall in their city. I try my best to support it with my dollars and my public stances but man they don't make it easy.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by TheLastGentleman »

For as sophisticated p&l’s design is from an urban perspective, cordish seems to be bafflingly shortsighted with stuff like this. They opposed the streetcar running through the district, right?

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by DColeKC »

KCPowercat wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:42 pm
Ummm that's a pretty common stance among urban deeign and planning?

Comments like that is why there is a love hate relationship with Cordish and the development overall in their city. I try my best to support it with my dollars and my public stances but man they don't make it easy.
My comment wasn't meant to be disrespectful. I know how passionate he is about public transportation, so I'm not surprised he is going to take the side of "public property" versus a private business owner who is concerned about catering to their customers first and foremost. Cordish are big supporters of the Streetcar, including having a Cordish employee on the KC Streetcar Authority last I knew. I just don't think it's fair to claim they don't support public transit because they didn't want bus stops within the district. Sprint Center and many sports arenas around the country have bus stops within close proximity, but not directly outside.

I've been creeping in the dark here long enough to understand that the majority of people on here are not what I'd consider Cordish fans. Some of the reason I decided to register.

I also think there's some Crossroads Vs PNL going on still, which is kind of sad honestly.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

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TheLastGentleman wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:55 pm
For as sophisticated p&l’s design is from an urban perspective, cordish seems to be bafflingly shortsighted with stuff like this. They opposed the streetcar running through the district, right?
Interested to hear Daves input there, but I can't imagine why they would have been against it. When I was there it was all very positive and optimisitc in regards to the streetcar.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by TheLastGentleman »

Maybe it was that they opposed a stop in the P&L? Idk, but I swear I've read somewhere that there was pushback by cordish against some element of the streetcar.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

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TheLastGentleman wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:14 pm
Maybe it was that they opposed a stop in the P&L? Idk, but I swear I've read somewhere that there was pushback by cordish against some element of the streetcar.
I remember push back on the specific location. The location just outside of BRGR is ideal.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by KCPowercat »

TheLastGentleman wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:14 pm
Maybe it was that they opposed a stop in the P&L? Idk, but I swear I've read somewhere that there was pushback by cordish against some element of the streetcar.
My first memory of Cordish public stance was positive. There may have been some back room feelings to get that support I have no idea.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Walnut Site Proposal

Post by KCPowercat »

DColeKC wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:00 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:42 pm
Ummm that's a pretty common stance among urban deeign and planning?

Comments like that is why there is a love hate relationship with Cordish and the development overall in their city. I try my best to support it with my dollars and my public stances but man they don't make it easy.
My comment wasn't meant to be disrespectful. I know how passionate he is about public transportation, so I'm not surprised he is going to take the side of "public property" versus a private business owner who is concerned about catering to their customers first and foremost. Cordish are big supporters of the Streetcar, including having a Cordish employee on the KC Streetcar Authority last I knew. I just don't think it's fair to claim they don't support public transit because they didn't want bus stops within the district. Sprint Center and many sports arenas around the country have bus stops within close proximity, but not directly outside.

I've been creeping in the dark here long enough to understand that the majority of people on here are not what I'd consider Cordish fans. Some of the reason I decided to register.

I also think there's some Crossroads Vs PNL going on still, which is kind of sad honestly.

Most here you will find are pro p&l. Hell we made a whole board for it. Cordish is held to a high standard though given the size of the agreement. We all want it to do as well as possible.

On mass transit they have had hits and misses. I remember specifically 13th being off limits to major bus routes. There are no stops within the district for buses. They close grand far too often which reroutes multiple major bus routes. On the other hand they were an early supporter of streetcar. They were experienced.enough from other cities to see that obvious benefit.

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