P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

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KCPowercat
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P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

Post by KCPowercat »

Discuss:

Overall site plan:
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Underground Garage:
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Ground Level:
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Last edited by KCPowercat on Tue Jun 29, 2004 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

Post by JerseyGuy »

Does this mean that they are going to tear down the TWA building or I am thinking about a different area?

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

Post by trailerkid »

Bookstore will be a Borders. Almost every single new B&N that I've seen recently is at 25,000 sq. feet. I also couldn't see B&N having the two large stores 40 blocks apart.

The large corner retail spots to the north of the Bookstore are also puzzling. As P&L seems to be mostly entertainment and restaurants, I wonder who they have in mind for those big spots. Urban Outfitters would be nice for the 11,000 sq. foot spot. Or it would be neat to see a chain home decor place like Pier 1 downtown. There will be A TON of downtown apartments that need furnishings...

Also, what do people think about the steak house? Is there a local operator to put in there or is a national to put in there? My choice would be Smith and Wollensky http://www.smithandwollensky.com/ but it would be best to have a local original there.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

Post by kcteen »

um steak house...easy. Hereferd house. Have them tear down their tacky-ass ugly building in the crossroads too when they leave...

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

Post by KCPowercat »

steakhouse....Ruth Chris? Leave the plaza...R.C. is in other Cordish developments.

I'd like to see more of a local joint here but I doubt it.
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Re: P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

Post by trailerkid »

kcteen wrote:um steak house...easy. Hereferd house. Have them tear down their tacky-ass ugly building in the crossroads too when they leave...
I don't like the idea of displacing half the damn city and moving them. I also like that signature location of Hereford House. It's also becoming very important and hip real estate...keep HH there!

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

Post by KCPowercat »

OK I'm going to go through all these and select my dream team of retailers given the guidelines of the site plan and then my best guess.

bookstore = Borders
small retail = clothing stores?
big retail = ???, Niketown...something to suck people in
steakhouse = Plaza III (2) (probably Ruth Chris)


Theme of this block = entrance to the district
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Re: P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

Post by MidtownCat »

I'd really like to see a Virgin Mega Center where they are currently allocating space for a book store.

If they could be lured, this location in the heart of a tourist district is where they gravitate towards. Would seem to be a perfect fit in my opinion.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

Post by QueSi2Opie »

Retail 1 (11,000+ sq. ft.) = Virgin Records Megastore
Retail 2 (8,000+ sq. ft.) = Ralph Lauren Polo
Retail 3 (6,000+ sq. ft.) = Niketown
Smaller Retail = Nine West, Levi’s, Guess and Kansas City Store.
Bookstore = Borders
Steakhouse = Fleming's Prime Steakhouse
The Pendergast Poltergeist Project!

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

Post by LyRiCaL GanGsTa »

Retail > Niketown ( it'll never happen though)

Retail > Playstation/Sony Store ( it'll never happen though)

Bookstore > Borders

Steakhouse > Golden Ox? Especially since the new arena will be close like Kemper was close in the W Bottoms.

Steakhouse > Or, maybe Plaza III concept with Jazz.

I hate the idea of a movie theater.... people don't want to go into the heart of a city to see a movie. Does anyone know if Crown Center's movie theaters are doing well? Inner city movie theaters just don't do well to me and they attract alot of punks just wanting to hang out. people who want to see a movie like the convenience of driving and going right in and sitting down with their soda and popcorn, this District is different -encouraging exclusivity and an entire experience. I would like to keep the place upscale and not have alot of people with $10 to spend hanging out there, it detracts from the concept and those people cause trouble after their $10 is spent. If you have a movie theater here there will be 1000's of inner city kids just hanging out yelling and people with $$ will stay away. Let the freakin' suburban malls have the stupid ass movies. Maybe an Independent Film House will open nearby in the Crossroads!

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

Post by trailerkid »

LyRiCaL GanGsTa wrote: I hate the idea of a movie theater.... people don't want to go into the heart of a city to see a movie. Does anyone know if Crown Center's movie theaters are doing well? Inner city movie theaters just don't do well to me and they attract alot of punks just wanting to hang out. people who want to see a movie like the convenience of driving and going right in and sitting down with their soda and popcorn, this District is different -encouraging exclusivity and an entire experience. I would like to keep the place upscale and not have alot of people with $10 to spend hanging out there, it detracts from the concept and those people cause trouble after their $10 is spent. If you have a movie theater here there will be 1000's of inner city kids just hanging out yelling and people with $$ will stay away. Let the freakin' suburban malls have the stupid ass movies.
I like the idea of a theater complex in the downtown area. For now, Crown Center is a enough. Eventually, I'd like to see a sleek, flagship AMC complex that wipes everything else away.
LyRiCaL GanGsTa wrote:Maybe an Independent Film House will open nearby in the Crossroads!
Where you been? http://www.screenland.com/theatre/index.htm opens Friday with Big Animal.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

Post by scooterj »

I am for a theater downtown because right now there's 10,000 or so people down here that DON'T want to have to drive clear out to the suburbs to see a movie. The Crown Center theaters are so crummy that I haven't gone in years. For now the Palace suits me fine, but I'd see a lot more movies if there was a complimentary theater inside the loop.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

Post by tat2kc »

how about a bookstore like Tattered Cover in Denver?
Are you sure we're talking about the same God here, because yours sounds kind of like a dick.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

Post by trailerkid »

I am for a Borders downtown. Despite it being a nasty chain, it draws people and lends itself to extensive browsing in addition to carrying a lot of titles. I don't want Virgin instead of Borders. I'd take both, but book browsing at Borders is far more interesting than CD browsing at a megastore. It wouldn't even bother me if they just put a small Streetside or Sam Goody down there.
tat2kc wrote:how about a bookstore like Tattered Cover in Denver?
I'm not sure what Tattered Cover is, but I think we need a large bookstore and smaller retailers. They lend themselves. Sometimes I'm in a Borders mood and sometimes I'm in an indie mood. There is a radical bookstore and community meeting place opening in the East Crossroads, but the loop could use a small, indie, bookstore-- perhaps with some sort of specialty like mysteries, science, social issues, etc.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

Post by KC0KEK »

tat2kc wrote:how about a bookstore like Tattered Cover in Denver?
That's a great bookstore.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

Post by cdschofield »

Something like a Tattered Cover or Powell's would be great but those kind of independent bookstores have taken years to evolve to what they are today and are very localized.

I've always dreamed of a huge bookstore open 24/7 downtown. It would be cool if Border's would try that.

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

Post by LyRiCaL GanGsTa »

Where you been? http://www.screenland.com/theatre/index.htm opens Friday with Big Animal.
oops!... thanks k. Is there a forum post dedicated to the screenland?

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

Post by KCPowercat »

Updated tenant types from the Star (there are some difference from the diagram):

- Furniture & design center
- Book & music store
- Upscale steak restaurant
- Jewelry
- Men's upscale clothing
- Designer cosmetics
- Boutique designer shoes
- Optical fashion
- Upscale women's accessories
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Re: P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

Post by trailerkid »

KCPowercat wrote:Updated tenant types from the Star (there are some difference from the diagram):

- Furniture & design center
- Book & music store
- Upscale steak restaurant
- Jewelry
- Men's upscale clothing
- Designer cosmetics
- Boutique designer shoes
- Optical fashion
- Upscale women's accessories
WOW! :shock: I wasn't expecting anything upscale on the retail end.

Designer cosmetics = Sephora in the 6,000 sq. foot storefront

Would I be going out on a limb in saying that the 11,000+ square foot spot is going to be a Crate and Barrel (furniture and design center)?

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Re: P&L District: 13th & Baltimore site proposal

Post by chrizow »

i hope it's crate+barrel.

upscale steak restaurant? mmmm. ok. i think we have enough of those, but whatever.

books and music is good.

i am glad they're getting stuff that's nowhere else in the metro. suburbanites wont come unless they do.

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