Downtown Casino

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DColeKC
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Downtown Casino

Post by DColeKC »

While not legal right now, do we think there will ever be a downtown casino in KC? I feel it would be a big win for downtown KC and the mainstream theatre block would be a great location for a casino/hotel combo. I've tried looking to see if any talk of this has happened with the state, but can't find anything.

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normalthings
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Re: Downtown Casino

Post by normalthings »

DColeKC wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:55 pm
While not legal right now, do we think there will ever be a downtown casino in KC? I feel it would be a big win for downtown KC and the mainstream theatre block would be a great location for a casino/hotel combo. I've tried looking to see if any talk of this has happened with the state, but can't find anything.
Legalizing land casinos could happen when sports books come up at Mo leg.

STL has a downtown casino and hotel. It is a dead zone.

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DColeKC
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Re: Downtown Casino

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normalthings wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:03 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:55 pm
While not legal right now, do we think there will ever be a downtown casino in KC? I feel it would be a big win for downtown KC and the mainstream theatre block would be a great location for a casino/hotel combo. I've tried looking to see if any talk of this has happened with the state, but can't find anything.
Legalizing land casinos could happen when sports books come up at Mo leg.

STL has a downtown casino and hotel. It is a dead zone.
Is it land based or a river boat casino?

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normalthings
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Re: Downtown Casino

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DColeKC wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:06 pm
normalthings wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:03 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:55 pm
While not legal right now, do we think there will ever be a downtown casino in KC? I feel it would be a big win for downtown KC and the mainstream theatre block would be a great location for a casino/hotel combo. I've tried looking to see if any talk of this has happened with the state, but can't find anything.
Legalizing land casinos could happen when sports books come up at Mo leg.

STL has a downtown casino and hotel. It is a dead zone.
Is it land based or a river boat casino?
4 Seasons Hotel at Lumiere Place Casino. Built in ~2007

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DColeKC
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Re: Downtown Casino

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normalthings wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:08 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:06 pm
normalthings wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:03 pm


Legalizing land casinos could happen when sports books come up at Mo leg.

STL has a downtown casino and hotel. It is a dead zone.
Is it land based or a river boat casino?
4 Seasons Hotel at Lumiere Place Casino. Land Based
Ah, just looked that up. It's still technically a water based casino since it's on a massive floating concrete barge. I can see why it's struggled lately being a weird location and next to an empty football dome.

I was thinking more of something like Live Casino in Philly that's part of the greater Xfinity Live complex.

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Re: Downtown Casino

Post by normalthings »

DColeKC wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:14 pm
normalthings wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:08 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:06 pm


Is it land based or a river boat casino?
4 Seasons Hotel at Lumiere Place Casino. Land Based
Ah, just looked that up. It's still technically a water based casino since it's on a massive floating concrete barge. I can see why it's struggled lately being a weird location and next to an empty football dome.

I was thinking more of something like Live Casino in Philly that's part of the greater Xfinity Live complex.
KC needs a luxury hotel but its clear we wont incentivize one. If a 4 Seasons & Casino can be done without incentives and in an urban manner, lets go for it

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DColeKC
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Re: Downtown Casino

Post by DColeKC »

I could see a downtown Casino being one of the projects that Cordish or multiple developers, would do without tax incentives. You're right, no way tax incentives are getting passed for a casino or lux hotel.
Last edited by DColeKC on Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Downtown Casino

Post by KCPowercat »

Alamo Drafthouse?

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DColeKC
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Re: Downtown Casino

Post by DColeKC »

KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:44 pm
Alamo Drafthouse?
I don't mean that building, but the block where 4 light was originally planned to go. Of course, you could also include the Alamo building as part of the complex if it was struggling.

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Re: Downtown Casino

Post by KCPowercat »

I was just thinking about the other topic and if Alamo was really closing that would be a good reuse.

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Re: Downtown Casino

Post by smh »

I find casinos to be depressing. I wouldn't fight it necessarily, but I wouldn't be thrilled to welcome a casino into downtown. My guess is the Live! casino in Philly is destined to be depressing given that it is 1. A casino, and 2. located amidst a sea of parking.

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Re: Downtown Casino

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smh wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:27 pm
I find casinos to be depressing. I wouldn't fight it necessarily, but I wouldn't be thrilled to welcome a casino into downtown. My guess is the Live! casino in Philly is destined to be depressing given that it is 1. A casino, and 2. located amidst a sea of parking.
The Live casino in Philly is in the stadium district with 4 major sports facilities right there. So there's an abundance of parking for those reasons.

I also don't find casino's fun to attend but I know of the success they've had in other markets in bringing in visitors and generating major tax revenues for the city and state. The only fun I've had in casinos haven't been gambling related, but more on the entertainment and event side.

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Re: Downtown Casino

Post by normalthings »

DColeKC wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:32 pm
smh wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:27 pm
I find casinos to be depressing. I wouldn't fight it necessarily, but I wouldn't be thrilled to welcome a casino into downtown. My guess is the Live! casino in Philly is destined to be depressing given that it is 1. A casino, and 2. located amidst a sea of parking.
The Live casino in Philly is in the stadium district with 4 major sports facilities right there. So there's an abundance of parking for those reasons.

I also don't find casino's fun to attend but I know of the success they've had in other markets in bringing in visitors and generating major tax revenues for the city and state. The only fun I've had in casinos haven't been gambling related, but more on the entertainment and event side.
The Philly Casino is alot close to putting at TSC. Cordish has a ton of casino and urban neighorhood experience. I am confident that they could pull good something off. I just don't want a Live! hotel. We need an established luxury brand (if at all possible) like 4 Seasons, Ritz Carlton, etc. STL has both of those with the 4 Seasons being attached to a casino.

Ballys (Isle of Capri) & Cordish are actively bidding against each other to build casinos in other markets. With this VA Casino, it sounds like a tribe purchased prime land and now are trying to secure a developer to building a casino on it. I am unclear if doing so allows you to build under the IGRA.

https://richmondbizsense.com/2021/02/23 ... ld-casino/
Last edited by normalthings on Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Chris Stritzel
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Re: Downtown Casino

Post by Chris Stritzel »

DColeKC wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:14 pm
normalthings wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:08 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:06 pm


Is it land based or a river boat casino?
4 Seasons Hotel at Lumiere Place Casino. Land Based
Ah, just looked that up. It's still technically a water based casino since it's on a massive floating concrete barge. I can see why it's struggled lately being a weird location and next to an empty football dome.

I was thinking more of something like Live Casino in Philly that's part of the greater Xfinity Live complex.
I think you're getting Lumiere Place mixed up with the former President Casino, which was a riverboat casino. Lumiere Place sits a few blocks West of the Mississippi. It's close to the River, but not on the river. Ameristar in St. Charles fits your description though.

In regards to the surroundings of Lumiere, it is a dead zone. The Dome being empty and a lot of vacant space on Laclede's Landing makes the casino and hotel an island.

Edit...
I see what you mean now. Strange
Image
Last edited by Chris Stritzel on Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DColeKC
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Re: Downtown Casino

Post by DColeKC »

normalthings wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:50 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:32 pm
smh wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:27 pm
I find casinos to be depressing. I wouldn't fight it necessarily, but I wouldn't be thrilled to welcome a casino into downtown. My guess is the Live! casino in Philly is destined to be depressing given that it is 1. A casino, and 2. located amidst a sea of parking.
The Live casino in Philly is in the stadium district with 4 major sports facilities right there. So there's an abundance of parking for those reasons.

I also don't find casino's fun to attend but I know of the success they've had in other markets in bringing in visitors and generating major tax revenues for the city and state. The only fun I've had in casinos haven't been gambling related, but more on the entertainment and event side.
The Philly Casino is alot close to putting at TSC. Cordish has a ton of casino and urban neighorhood experience. I am confident that they could pull good something off. I just don't want a Live! hotel. We need an established luxury brand (if at all possible) like 4 Seasons, Ritz Carlton, etc. STL has both of those with the 4 Seasons being attached to a casino.

Ballys (Isle of Capri) & Cordish are actively bidding against each other to build casinos in other markets. With this VA Casino, it sounds like a tribe purchased prime land and now are trying to secure a developer to building a casino on it. I am unclear if doing so allows you to build under the IGRA.

https://richmondbizsense.com/2021/02/23 ... ld-casino/
The situation in VA isn't pretty. Cordish had an agreement with the city to have first chance to build a Casino and the city didn't hold up its end. Getting messy!

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Re: Downtown Casino

Post by normalthings »

DColeKC wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:59 pm
normalthings wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:50 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:32 pm


The Live casino in Philly is in the stadium district with 4 major sports facilities right there. So there's an abundance of parking for those reasons.

I also don't find casino's fun to attend but I know of the success they've had in other markets in bringing in visitors and generating major tax revenues for the city and state. The only fun I've had in casinos haven't been gambling related, but more on the entertainment and event side.
The Philly Casino is alot close to putting at TSC. Cordish has a ton of casino and urban neighorhood experience. I am confident that they could pull good something off. I just don't want a Live! hotel. We need an established luxury brand (if at all possible) like 4 Seasons, Ritz Carlton, etc. STL has both of those with the 4 Seasons being attached to a casino.

Ballys (Isle of Capri) & Cordish are actively bidding against each other to build casinos in other markets. With this VA Casino, it sounds like a tribe purchased prime land and now are trying to secure a developer to building a casino on it. I am unclear if doing so allows you to build under the IGRA.

https://richmondbizsense.com/2021/02/23 ... ld-casino/
The situation in VA isn't pretty. Cordish had an agreement with the city to have first chance to build a Casino and the city didn't hold up its end. Getting messy!
Was my assessment of the tribes involvement accurate?

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DColeKC
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Re: Downtown Casino

Post by DColeKC »

normalthings wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:02 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:59 pm
normalthings wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:50 pm


The Philly Casino is alot close to putting at TSC. Cordish has a ton of casino and urban neighorhood experience. I am confident that they could pull good something off. I just don't want a Live! hotel. We need an established luxury brand (if at all possible) like 4 Seasons, Ritz Carlton, etc. STL has both of those with the 4 Seasons being attached to a casino.

Ballys (Isle of Capri) & Cordish are actively bidding against each other to build casinos in other markets. With this VA Casino, it sounds like a tribe purchased prime land and now are trying to secure a developer to building a casino on it. I am unclear if doing so allows you to build under the IGRA.

https://richmondbizsense.com/2021/02/23 ... ld-casino/
The situation in VA isn't pretty. Cordish had an agreement with the city to have first chance to build a Casino and the city didn't hold up its end. Getting messy!
Was my assessment of the tribes involvement accurate?
I think so. I do know there was a tribe involved. It's been awhile since I've read about that.

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normalthings
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Re: Downtown Casino

Post by normalthings »

DColeKC wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:04 pm
normalthings wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:02 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:59 pm


The situation in VA isn't pretty. Cordish had an agreement with the city to have first chance to build a Casino and the city didn't hold up its end. Getting messy!
Was my assessment of the tribes involvement accurate?
I think so. I do know there was a tribe involved. It's been awhile since I've read about that.
The Osage of OK are building that museum on troost and have a casino in Tulsa. Cordish could sell them 4 Light and/or Alamo Drafthouse along with Cordish getting rights to develop a casino there.

Image

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DColeKC
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Re: Downtown Casino

Post by DColeKC »

Chris Stritzel wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:53 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:14 pm
normalthings wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:08 pm


4 Seasons Hotel at Lumiere Place Casino. Land Based
Ah, just looked that up. It's still technically a water based casino since it's on a massive floating concrete barge. I can see why it's struggled lately being a weird location and next to an empty football dome.

I was thinking more of something like Live Casino in Philly that's part of the greater Xfinity Live complex.
I think you're getting Lumiere Place mixed up with the former President Casino, which was a riverboat casino. Lumiere Place sits a few blocks West of the Mississippi. It's close to the River, but not on the river. Ameristar in St. Charles fits your description though.

In regards to the surroundings of Lumiere, it is a dead zone. The Dome being empty and a lot of vacant space on Laclede's Landing makes the casino and hotel an island.

Edit...
I see what you mean now. Strange
Image
Yeah, it's only on water in a very technical sense to skirt the Missouri gambling laws. I've never understood what the big deal is. If you're going to allow casinos, why force them to be near a river which severely limits location options.

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Re: Downtown Casino

Post by normalthings »

If this is being done w/o incentives. Could make more sense to buy the SKC parcel at Truman & Main and build the casino & hotel. Gives you a larger floor plate and you maintain space for that 4 Light living tower in the future.

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