Four Light

Come here for discussion about the new downtown entertainment district.
earthling
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Re: Four Light

Post by earthling »

In the 30-year+ big picture, placement of the retail is important, especially for such a prime corner. Lobby entrance for residential should be off to the side, not waste that highly active corner.

During COVID, sporting goods, hobby, music/bookstores category making a comeback given many are either home or into outdoor activity. Might be something for Cordish to target until bars/restaurants return full steam. Clothing stores are probably mostly damaged forever now that online shopping makes it very easy to return clothes, and in COVID period, more people are getting more used to shopping for clothes online.

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normalthings
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Re: Four Light

Post by normalthings »

earthling wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:16 pm
In the 30-year+ big picture, placement of the retail is important, especially for such a prime corner. Lobby entrance for residential should be off to the side, not waste that highly active corner.

During COVID, sporting goods, hobby, music/bookstores category making a comeback given many are either home or into outdoor activity. Might be something for Cordish to target until bars/restaurants return full steam. Clothing stores are probably mostly damaged forever now that online shopping makes it very easy to return clothes, and in COVID period, more people are getting more used to shopping for clothes online.

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I would heavily traffic a C-Store without gas. DGX is close to what I'm looking for but lacks the "kitchen" aspect that a traditional C-Store (ex. Quicktrip) has.

earthling
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Re: Four Light

Post by earthling »

Doesn't seem likely given Cosentino's is a Cordish tenant and so close.

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KCPowercat
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Re: Four Light

Post by KCPowercat »

Maybe we need a new company trying to lease these spaces?

It's just something the city needs to be aware of as cordish proposes changes like this. It's not an insignificant amount of money coming out of the general fund annually. Seems like a no-brainer to monitor it.

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Re: Four Light

Post by KCPowercat »

earthling wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:16 pm
In the 30-year+ big picture, placement of the retail is important, especially for such a prime corner. Lobby entrance for residential should be off to the side, not waste that highly active corner.

During COVID, sporting goods, hobby, music/bookstores category making a comeback given many are either home or into outdoor activity. Might be something for Cordish to target until bars/restaurants return full steam. Clothing stores are probably mostly damaged forever now that online shopping makes it very easy to return clothes, and in COVID period, more people are getting more used to shopping for clothes online.

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Agreed. The corner should not lose the retail aspect. This is a heavily trafficked corner.

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normalthings
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Re: Four Light

Post by normalthings »

KCPowercat wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:28 pm
Maybe we need a new company trying to lease these spaces?

It's just something the city needs to be aware of as cordish proposes changes like this. It's not an insignificant amount of money coming out of the general fund annually. Seems like a no-brainer to monitor it.
Looking at the plethora of other empty spaces downtown and the proposed action. I am not sure what anyone could do better other than install a tenant that competes with someone already in the district. I guess subdividing space into micro-units is about the only big change i can think of.

Maybe Cordish just needs to buy some of the beloved but dead/dying KC brands and bring them to P&L. Imagine walking out of Disney on Ice at Sprint Center and grabbing ice cream at Betty Rays. Winstead 24/7 dinner at Power & Light?

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Re: Four Light

Post by KCPowercat »

Seems like no brainier idea if I was leasing those spaces. To their credit I do think cordish has reached out to many known kc brands in the past and I think got turned down due to the rent amount.

We built assumption of tax performance based on this being a mixed use neighborhood.. if that is changing substantially, the city needs to be involved. We now have this space maybe going away, strata taking some retail space, leasing to banks (no sales tax) and a lot of empty space. It adds up

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normalthings
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Re: Four Light

Post by normalthings »

KCPowercat wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:49 pm
Seems like no brainier idea if I was leasing those spaces. To their credit I do think cordish has reached out to many known kc brands in the past and I think got turned down due to the rent amount.

We built assumption of tax performance based on this being a mixed use neighborhood.. if that is changing substantially, the city needs to be involved. We now have this space maybe going away, strata taking some retail space, leasing to banks (no sales tax) and a lot of empty space. It adds up
I guess I understand what you are getting at. At this point, It seems like Cordish’s moves are nothing but beneficial to those goals. It makes me feel old to say it but we are not that far away from paying off the bonds. I doubt these big changes happen until the 2030s


Strata isn’t taking up any retail space as fast as I remember?

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Re: Four Light

Post by KCPowercat »

I thought it was taking the main street space where Jos a bank was?

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normalthings
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Re: Four Light

Post by normalthings »

KCPowercat wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:24 pm
I thought it was taking the main street space where Jos a bank was?
Jos A Bank was just going to become a public coffee shop. The office lobby has been programmed from day 1 in the closed off space.

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Anthony_Hugo98
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Re: Four Light

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

KCPowercat wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:24 pm
I thought it was taking the main street space where Jos a bank was?
From what I recall, it was simply going above the existing commercial space, as the structural support is already built into the building.
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Four Light

Post by beautyfromashes »

DColeKC wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:52 pm
It’s sat empty for a reason. 300+ more people living in that space is much more valuable than any retail in the same square footage to both the city and downtown business.
So, this was just a placeholder building for more residential all along? And they didn't lease it out because of this? What are the cities requirements for incentives for this space since I don't believe it was part of the original plan? Are we required to subsidize any number of Cordish buildings inside the district or just the ones originally planned?

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normalthings
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Re: Four Light

Post by normalthings »

beautyfromashes wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:46 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:52 pm
It’s sat empty for a reason. 300+ more people living in that space is much more valuable than any retail in the same square footage to both the city and downtown business.
So, this was just a placeholder building for more residential all along? And they didn't lease it out because of this? What are the cities requirements for incentives for this space since I don't believe it was part of the original plan? Are we required to subsidize any number of Cordish buildings inside the district or just the ones originally planned?
I take his comment to mean "there is a reason it sat empty (lack of market demand). 300+ more people living in that space and a smaller retail stall as proposed is a more valuable alternative than a big empty space."

IIRC, I looked into this building and it did not appear to have a proper floor.

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DColeKC
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Re: Four Light

Post by DColeKC »

beautyfromashes wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:46 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:52 pm
It’s sat empty for a reason. 300+ more people living in that space is much more valuable than any retail in the same square footage to both the city and downtown business.
So, this was just a placeholder building for more residential all along? And they didn't lease it out because of this? What are the cities requirements for incentives for this space since I don't believe it was part of the original plan? Are we required to subsidize any number of Cordish buildings inside the district or just the ones originally planned?
The idea to put a tower there has been around for a few years and they stopped actively trying to lease it at that point. About the only two companies to seriously consider that space was a local radio station group and rally house.

I believe the city is on the hook for 4 towers max.

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DColeKC
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Re: Four Light

Post by DColeKC »

normalthings wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:22 pm
beautyfromashes wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:46 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:52 pm
It’s sat empty for a reason. 300+ more people living in that space is much more valuable than any retail in the same square footage to both the city and downtown business.
So, this was just a placeholder building for more residential all along? And they didn't lease it out because of this? What are the cities requirements for incentives for this space since I don't believe it was part of the original plan? Are we required to subsidize any number of Cordish buildings inside the district or just the ones originally planned?
I take his comment to mean "there is a reason it sat empty (lack of market demand). 300+ more people living in that space and a smaller retail stall as proposed is a more valuable alternative than a big empty space."

IIRC, I looked into this building and it did not appear to have a proper floor.
Still a dirt floor.

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normalthings
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Re: Four Light

Post by normalthings »

DColeKC wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:55 pm
beautyfromashes wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:46 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:52 pm
It’s sat empty for a reason. 300+ more people living in that space is much more valuable than any retail in the same square footage to both the city and downtown business.
So, this was just a placeholder building for more residential all along? And they didn't lease it out because of this? What are the cities requirements for incentives for this space since I don't believe it was part of the original plan? Are we required to subsidize any number of Cordish buildings inside the district or just the ones originally planned?
The idea to put a tower there has been around for a few years and they stopped actively trying to lease it at that point. About the only two companies to seriously consider that space was a local radio station group and rally house.

I believe the city is on the hook for 4 towers max.
Able to share any details on the tower?

flyingember
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Re: Four Light

Post by flyingember »

KCPowercat wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:04 pm
I totally understand the history of the space but every square foot that is removed eliminates any future chance of sales tax dollars ever coming in again. Maybe it's fine in this situation but overall the city needs to keep an eye on the available square footage available to generate tax dollars.

300 more people living there AND retail space remaining is obviously still an option.
If there's one retail space per block downtown that's hundreds of retail spaces. Even 100,000 people can't support 300 retail spaces.

Hoping on transit and going shopping in midtown is perfectly reasonable at this point.

What's needed too is doctors offices, insurance offices and the like and they don't all need a storefront entrance.

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beautyfromashes
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Re: Four Light

Post by beautyfromashes »

DColeKC wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:55 pm
beautyfromashes wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:46 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:52 pm
It’s sat empty for a reason. 300+ more people living in that space is much more valuable than any retail in the same square footage to both the city and downtown business.
So, this was just a placeholder building for more residential all along? And they didn't lease it out because of this? What are the cities requirements for incentives for this space since I don't believe it was part of the original plan? Are we required to subsidize any number of Cordish buildings inside the district or just the ones originally planned?
The idea to put a tower there has been around for a few years and they stopped actively trying to lease it at that point. About the only two companies to seriously consider that space was a local radio station group and rally house.

I believe the city is on the hook for 4 towers max.
I guess at least we know now why it hasn't been rented for so long... at least the last two years they haven't even been trying.

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normalthings
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Re: Four Light

Post by normalthings »

beautyfromashes wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:38 am
DColeKC wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:55 pm
beautyfromashes wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:46 pm

So, this was just a placeholder building for more residential all along? And they didn't lease it out because of this? What are the cities requirements for incentives for this space since I don't believe it was part of the original plan? Are we required to subsidize any number of Cordish buildings inside the district or just the ones originally planned?
The idea to put a tower there has been around for a few years and they stopped actively trying to lease it at that point. About the only two companies to seriously consider that space was a local radio station group and rally house.

I believe the city is on the hook for 4 towers max.
I guess at least we know now why it hasn't been rented for so long... at least the last two years they haven't even been trying.
Would be the perfect location for Dave's pop-up record store V.2

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normalthings
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Re: Four Light

Post by normalthings »

I am wondering if this retail building could be the 250 room AC Hotel that Colliers reports is proposed in the CBD.

Strangerthings had previously posted that Cordish was advancing a hotel project on the Strata site. It is not a big jump to this parcel.

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