The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)

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KCPowercat
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Re: The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)

Post by KCPowercat »

It's still there and that place is a great example of why I think one would work. That one isn't known outside of that building.
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DColeKC
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Re: The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)

Post by DColeKC »

KCPowercat wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:51 am
DColeKC wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:26 am
KCPowercat wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:26 am The pandemic would be a more valid excuse if these hadn't been sitting empty since they were built in 2007.

I don't doubt Cordish is trying, I'm just saying maybe it's time for a new perspective. Seems Cordish is almost totally focused on "entertainment". There is still demand for retail.
What locations besides 14th/main and the alley retail location next to Garment has sat empty since 2007?

We all know retail has plummeted in demand. Most downtown residents get everything delivered. Cordish has been in talks with Target for a few years about this market and other cities. That deal could check all the boxes and if it happens in the next few years, is totally worth not putting in a single clothing tenant or solo convenience store that would just be crushed by a Urban Target.

Leasing an entire district is a long term game and not always about just getting every space full like a shopping mall.

I think it appears they're focused on entertainment more because that's a growing sector in this country as opposed to retail.
These two along 13th
https://goo.gl/maps/YtXWzuq114JkXX5N6

As mentioned 1400 Main
https://goo.gl/maps/XSWK32cYCudjq4Go8

This space
https://goo.gl/maps/8TjbLrqzfBAZJ6KV7

Base of H&R
https://goo.gl/maps/4gu6bi8z3RWLFabJ8

Space by Tmo/Sprint store
https://goo.gl/maps/XwW1XKTe2pT3QTiL6

These 3 along main
https://goo.gl/maps/XGGs3F1yK9qyAy9JA
Most of these haven't sat empty since 2007.

Two along 13th - Was used as the districts maintenance and repair facility up until recently. Has been cleared as it's leased. Not sure when construction will start.

1400 Main - Showed dozens of times to prospects, no one took the lease. Off market as of now since it will be residential space.

Zafar - Legal nightmare still tied up in court. The space across the drive has never been leased, but it's a poor location for foot traffic.

Space by T-Mobile - JE Dunn construction offices used for 2-3 or possibly 4 light. Keeps from them bringing down those ugly construction office trailers.

3 along main - Kaldi Coffee space is leased and polished edge was going to take over the empty space next to them as an expansion pre-pandemic. Not sure of current status.
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Re: The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)

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using them as maintenance buildings and construction offices was not what the city/residents was sold when we were building this. That's not filling the space, sorry. That's not what incentives were provided to do.

The 3 along main don't include Kaldi's space. There are 3 other storefronts there in that shot.

Hey I get it's hard especially now. That's why I said maybe it's time for a fresh perspective / leasing approach.
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DColeKC
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Re: The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)

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KCPowercat wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:53 pm using them as maintenance buildings and construction offices was not what the city/residents was sold when we were building this. That's not filling the space, sorry. That's not what incentives were provided to do.

The 3 along main don't include Kaldi's space. There are 3 other storefronts there in that shot.

Hey I get it's hard especially now. That's why I said maybe it's time for a fresh perspective / leasing approach.
The district paid rent to use it just as JE Dunn pays rent to use the space next to Rally House. I'm not seeing the three locations you speak of on main? I'd say getting rent out of an empty space until someone wants to lease it for ten years is a great.

Also, Cordish has nothing to do with the H&R location.
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Re: The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)

Post by DColeKC »

Not to mention -- Any district of this size is going to need some back of house and maintenance facilities to operate.
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Re: The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)

Post by KCPowercat »

For sure. It's called back of the house for a reason. You don't use your streetfront retail spaces for it unless you can't rent them out to actual tenants.

Three spaces are next to Polished then 2 spaces south of the garage entrance. Using it as a leasing showroom isn't profitable to the city or useful to residents.
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Re: The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)

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KCPowercat wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:08 pm For sure. It's called back of the house for a reason. You don't use your streetfront retail spaces for it unless you can't rent them out to actual tenants.

Three spaces are next to Polished then 2 spaces south of the garage entrance. Using it as a leasing showroom isn't profitable to the city or useful to residents.
Huh? Yeah, you use whatever space you can and pay rent on the space until a 3rd party is interested in that space. This whole damn area is "street front", there are no back alley hidden areas where all the behind the scenes magic happen like a freakin disney world.

The space next to polished was/is supposed to be taken over by polished. Posh is there and like I said, the coffee space is leased and going in. The leasing center, once again, pays rent! Considering they're building at least 3 more towers, it in fact is very useful to potential tenants. Half that space is being taken over by Visit KC as a welcoming center as well. Yes, they will pay rent!

There are some district maintenance offices between Costentinos and the bagel place, should those be ripped out as well?
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Re: The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)

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So you're here to tell us that Cordish designed this whole neighborhood, didn't build in necessary back of the house space, so when this was presented to the city planning department, it was always part of the plan to use these streetfront spaces for operations and maintenance? What an idiotic plan that the city should never have sent back to be reworked.

If that is the case, why suddenly can the space on 13th be "cleaned up" and leased out now? Maintenance and operations is now not needed?

Let's say a retailer comes in and wants that space next to Meshuggah? Is it not available to lease? I mean operations/maintenance space is needed right?

Speaking of Meshuggah, how can they make it, don't they know bagels are sold 300 feet away in the grocery store? Same as a c-store would sell some of the same things Cosentino's does now?
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Re: The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)

Post by beautyfromashes »

So your back of house is prime street front retail? Why not use the space above BRGR or “the Gallery” or put a trailer in the Strata lot?
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Re: The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)

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KCPowercat wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:27 pm So you're here to tell us that Cordish designed this whole neighborhood, didn't build in necessary back of the house space, so when this was presented to the city planning department, it was always part of the plan to use these streetfront spaces for operations and maintenance? What an idiotic plan that the city should never have sent back to be reworked.

If that is the case, why suddenly can the space on 13th be "cleaned up" and leased out now? Maintenance and operations is now not needed?

Let's say a retailer comes in and wants that space next to Meshuggah? Is it not available to lease? I mean operations/maintenance space is needed right?

Speaking of Meshuggah, how can they make it, don't they know bagels are sold 300 feet away in the grocery store? Same as a c-store would sell some of the same things Cosentino's does now?
I'd say a clean and functioning downtown district is highly beneficial to residents. Ever heard the saying, "anything is for sale for the right price"? Well, when someone comes along and wants to rent a space that's being used for in-house purposes, you find a new home for those purposes.

If a retailer really wanted that space, Cordish would figure it out. You can't get what Meshuggah produces in the grocery store next door, so dumb attempt to justify a c-store.

Using storefront for back of house wasn't part of the plan but it's a way to fill a space and get some rent out of it as opposed to sitting empty. Notice how they picked one of the lesser desirable locations. Once the place is entirely leased, it's likely maintenance would be off-site and out of the district, paying rent to someone else. That's always been the long-term plan.
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Re: The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)

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beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:36 pm So your back of house is prime street front retail? Why not use the space above BRGR or “the Gallery” or put a trailer in the Strata lot?
Until it leases, yes. The area on 13th across from the Midland has always been shown but isn't exactly "prime" location material.

The space above BRGR is leased and used, just like the Gallery. They did park and store a lot of equipment in the Strata Lot, but once that project started coming to light, they've began clearing it out.
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Re: The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)

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DColeKC wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:37 pm
KCPowercat wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:27 pm So you're here to tell us that Cordish designed this whole neighborhood, didn't build in necessary back of the house space, so when this was presented to the city planning department, it was always part of the plan to use these streetfront spaces for operations and maintenance? What an idiotic plan that the city should never have sent back to be reworked.

If that is the case, why suddenly can the space on 13th be "cleaned up" and leased out now? Maintenance and operations is now not needed?

Let's say a retailer comes in and wants that space next to Meshuggah? Is it not available to lease? I mean operations/maintenance space is needed right?

Speaking of Meshuggah, how can they make it, don't they know bagels are sold 300 feet away in the grocery store? Same as a c-store would sell some of the same things Cosentino's does now?
I'd say a clean and functioning downtown district is highly beneficial to residents. Ever heard the saying, "anything is for sale for the right price"? Well, when someone comes along and wants to rent a space that's being used for in-house purposes, you find a new home for those purposes.

If a retailer really wanted that space, Cordish would figure it out. You can't get what Meshuggah produces in the grocery store next door, so dumb attempt to justify a c-store.

Using storefront for back of house wasn't part of the plan but it's a way to fill a space and get some rent out of it as opposed to sitting empty. Notice how they picked one of the lesser desirable locations. Once the place is entirely leased, it's likely maintenance would be off-site and out of the district, paying rent to someone else. That's always been the long-term plan.
So my point of those never being used for their built purpose since 2007 remains valid. Gotcha. Let's get another leasing agent a shot at finding that right price to fill up these spaces.
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Re: The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)

Post by KCPowercat »

The main walking street from downtown hotels and convention center to the district isn't prime location? Okay.
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Re: The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)

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KCPowercat wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:54 pm
DColeKC wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:37 pm
KCPowercat wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:27 pm So you're here to tell us that Cordish designed this whole neighborhood, didn't build in necessary back of the house space, so when this was presented to the city planning department, it was always part of the plan to use these streetfront spaces for operations and maintenance? What an idiotic plan that the city should never have sent back to be reworked.

If that is the case, why suddenly can the space on 13th be "cleaned up" and leased out now? Maintenance and operations is now not needed?

Let's say a retailer comes in and wants that space next to Meshuggah? Is it not available to lease? I mean operations/maintenance space is needed right?

Speaking of Meshuggah, how can they make it, don't they know bagels are sold 300 feet away in the grocery store? Same as a c-store would sell some of the same things Cosentino's does now?
I'd say a clean and functioning downtown district is highly beneficial to residents. Ever heard the saying, "anything is for sale for the right price"? Well, when someone comes along and wants to rent a space that's being used for in-house purposes, you find a new home for those purposes.

If a retailer really wanted that space, Cordish would figure it out. You can't get what Meshuggah produces in the grocery store next door, so dumb attempt to justify a c-store.

Using storefront for back of house wasn't part of the plan but it's a way to fill a space and get some rent out of it as opposed to sitting empty. Notice how they picked one of the lesser desirable locations. Once the place is entirely leased, it's likely maintenance would be off-site and out of the district, paying rent to someone else. That's always been the long-term plan.
So my point of those never being used for their built purpose since 2007 remains valid. Gotcha. Let's get another leasing agent a shot at finding that right price to fill up these spaces.
I think it's hilarious you think a different leasing agent would have any better luck. I also find it funny you think Cordish for some reason doesn't want to increase it's profits and just let places sit empty? You obviously have no clue how real the struggle is in retail leasing not only now, but over the last decade.

And yes, 13th connects to the convention center but it's not got the foot traffic you would think it does. If those locations were so desirable, they would have been leased. I also don't understand what you think "built purpose" means. They were built to be leased and generate revenue, doesn't matter if T-mobile, Visit KC or district maintenance team is paying the rent... rent is rent!

I mean, do you honestly think all the doors haven't been knocked on in order to fill up vacancies? If they thought a 3rd party leasing agent could get it done, I'm sure they'd hire them. They work with 3rd party agents all the time, usually they're in a role representing the tenants.
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Re: The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)

Post by WoodDraw »

I dunno, other places downtown seem to be getting tenants. If Cordish is so great why can't they?
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Re: The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)

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rent is rent, very true, my guess is district maintenance isn't paying what an actual store would. District maintenance also doesn't bring in sales tax which was one of the selling points for the district and part of the financial breakdown for the funding and incentives the city threw in. That was their built purpose. Not to house mulch.

I don't have any idea if someone else would have better luck. I know that Cordish has had 14 years (almost 20 if you consider they would have been leasing as construction began) so the struggle over the last decade only accounts for half of it. I do understand it's not easy as I've stated multiple times.

I'm quite confident I know how how much foot traffic 13th has given my mode of transport is walking and use 13th all the time.
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Re: The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)

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WoodDraw wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:17 pm I dunno, other places downtown seem to be getting tenants. If Cordish is so great why can't they?
Name a few? I'm not saying Cordish is so great people should come begging to hand them money for a space. I'm sure the price difference between some spots in the crossroads and PNL is sizable.
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Re: The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)

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KCPowercat wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:17 pm rent is rent, very true, my guess is district maintenance isn't paying what an actual store would. District maintenance also doesn't bring in sales tax which was one of the selling points for the district and part of the financial breakdown for the funding and incentives the city threw in. That was their built purpose. Not to house mulch.

I don't have any idea if someone else would have better luck. I know that Cordish has had 14 years (almost 20 if you consider they would have been leasing as construction began) so the struggle over the last decade only accounts for half of it. I do understand it's not easy as I've stated multiple times.

I'm quite confident I know how how much foot traffic 13th has given my mode of transport is walking and use 13th all the time.
I didn't say storage. It was a workshop where district items were maintained and repaired. It was kept unfinished so prospective clients could see the space as they would get it. It did take all this time to get someone to rent that particular spot. Before the pandemic, the district was 95% leased which I'd imagine is above the national average and better than the Crossroads, Wesport or Plaza, but I'm not sure on that.

I don't think just because it's your preferred path, that it means it's got more traffic than say Main street or even Walnut. Hell, 14th gets more foot traffic.
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Re: The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)

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DColeKC wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:19 pm Name a few? I'm not saying Cordish is so great people should come begging to hand them money for a space. I'm sure the price difference between some spots in the crossroads and PNL is sizable.
This is the point. Maybe, you're overestimating what the difference in cost should be for the two.
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Re: The Midland Lofts (formerly Midland Office Building)

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My point was I walk all those streets on a regular basis. 14th in no way gets more east of Main (which is the spaces we are talking about).

95% leased...what % of that is Cordish leasing back to itself or JE DUnn? That number that was always thrown around always seemed lofty and after this discussion I know why. Let's lease that space to operations for a $1 a month, count it in the leased %!
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