Three Light

Come here for discussion about the new downtown entertainment district.
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KCPowercat
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Re: Three Light

Post by KCPowercat » Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:10 pm

normalthings wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:36 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:09 pm
It sounds like your perception based on looking at a bus stop? What a poor way to determine nobody rides the bus.
I don't think its DColeKC's literal perception. I agree that many people (unfortunately) think how he described.
I would give him that credit if he didn't change into "I don't see.professional people" in the middle of him trying to say that's everybody's perception.

There is no doubt a bus stigma.

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Re: Three Light

Post by TheBigChuckbowski » Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:27 pm

DColeKC wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:33 am
KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:15 am
Yes "normal" people ride the bus. Jfc.
I think the average KC resident only goes by what they see at bus stops, and I don't see too many (zero) business casual, professional looking people waiting on the bus at any of those. Obviously "normal" people ride the bus, but we are talking about perception here.
Why are you talking about perception, though? You're rationalizing spending millions of dollars to build more parking than is needed because there's a poor perception of the bus and downtown parking? Surely there are better uses of that money, no?

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Re: Three Light

Post by DColeKC » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:28 pm

KCPowercat wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:09 pm
It sounds like your perception based on looking at a bus stop? What a poor way to determine nobody rides the bus.
Yeah, I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about the majority of people in KC who are not and never have been downtown or urban residents. Can't fix something if you don't admit there's an issue and considering every busy bus stop is full of people I wouldn't consider professional office type workers and is often occupied by drunk homeless people. It's like driving by a house that looks run down, you assume the interior sucks too but in reality, it could be perfect.

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Re: Three Light

Post by DColeKC » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:30 pm

TheBigChuckbowski wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:27 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:33 am
KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:15 am
Yes "normal" people ride the bus. Jfc.
I think the average KC resident only goes by what they see at bus stops, and I don't see too many (zero) business casual, professional looking people waiting on the bus at any of those. Obviously "normal" people ride the bus, but we are talking about perception here.
Why are you talking about perception, though? You're rationalizing spending millions of dollars to build more parking than is needed because there's a poor perception of the bus and downtown parking? Surely there are better uses of that money, no?
I'm not rationalizing building parking, I'm simply saying KC people are obsessed with driving and access to what they consider "convenient" parking.

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Re: Three Light

Post by WoodDraw » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:48 pm

I largely agree with dcole here, even if he's put it in a mildly inarticulate way.

I also think we're talking about three different issues:

1) premium apartments downtown need parking. And generally when these renters pay for parking, they expect secured, segregated spots.

I can't speak for all buildings downtown, but I pay for a space and it's separated from other parking by fob control and numbered.

2) Can we do more to decease parking? Yes and we should.

3) bus transit still has a stigma, whether fair or not, in a way that the streetcar does not. I think making it free would be a big help because I think people are more intimidated about paying and stops than anything.

I know it's an agency with great people and never enough money, but once a master plan is in place, a pr plan running off the success of the streetcar would be great.

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Re: Three Light

Post by FangKC » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:38 pm

flyingember wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:53 pm
normalthings wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:36 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:09 pm
It sounds like your perception based on looking at a bus stop? What a poor way to determine nobody rides the bus.
I don't think its DColeKC's literal perception. I agree that many people (unfortunately) think how he described.
And let's be honest, someone's first experience with the bus is going to be at a bus stop or crossing the street to it. At one point one stop was literally at a mud puddle across the street from the Sporting KC training facility with no crosswalk or sidewalk to get there. We will spend millions on the destination with parking and $0 on a concrete slab for the bus.

Are you remotely surprised someone might think poorly of the bus in general looking at the stops?
There are so many bus stops in this city that are simply "f*#@k yous" to the bus riding population. Here is an example I have noticed before at Vineyard and Cleaver Boulevard.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0465607 ... 8192?hl=en

It's a T-intersection. No crosswalks. The bus stop is on the side of the boulevard in the grass. No sidewalk. What's really great is in the winter when the snowplow throws snow up over the side of the street in a pile and the bus riders can't get to the stop without climbing over the snow hill, and then have to stand in the snow waiting. I've seen people standing on the street waiting.

Then people wonder why few people want to take the bus.

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Re: Three Light

Post by earthling » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:30 am

We need to at least try free bus as a trial. If it works, improvements can be made. If it works, less parking will be needed downtown. It's the only shot I can think of to boost transit ridership and is worth pursuing even if boosting ridership of office workers by only 20%. The hard part will be getting JoCo on board as they probably don't want to easily ship residents into City given the level of office competition.

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Re: Three Light

Post by KCPowercat » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:55 am

DColeKC wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:28 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:09 pm
It sounds like your perception based on looking at a bus stop? What a poor way to determine nobody rides the bus.
Yeah, I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about the majority of people in KC who are not and never have been downtown or urban residents. Can't fix something if you don't admit there's an issue and considering every busy bus stop is full of people I wouldn't consider professional office type workers and is often occupied by drunk homeless people. It's like driving by a house that looks run down, you assume the interior sucks too but in reality, it could be perfect.
Wtf.

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Re: Three Light

Post by earthling » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:10 pm

Perception of bus stigma is also changing with Millennials, the least car friendly generation since cars appeared. They'll be more willing to try bus especially if free. And they are replacing Boomers in the offices as each year goes by.

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Re: Three Light

Post by DColeKC » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:17 pm

KCPowercat wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:55 am
DColeKC wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:28 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:09 pm
It sounds like your perception based on looking at a bus stop? What a poor way to determine nobody rides the bus.
Yeah, I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about the majority of people in KC who are not and never have been downtown or urban residents. Can't fix something if you don't admit there's an issue and considering every busy bus stop is full of people I wouldn't consider professional office type workers and is often occupied by drunk homeless people. It's like driving by a house that looks run down, you assume the interior sucks too but in reality, it could be perfect.
Wtf.

Thank you for the well thought out and elaborate response. I don’t think you’re understanding what I’m trying to say but it makes sense. I’m talking about the overall generalized mindset of KC residents. Keep being offended and dropping brilliant conversation building treats like “wtf” instead of addressing and admitting the stigma of KC’s bus system. That will surely fix it!

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Re: Three Light

Post by DColeKC » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:23 pm

earthling wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:10 pm
Perception of bus stigma is also changing with Millennials, the least car friendly generation since cars appeared. They'll be more willing to try bus especially if free. And they are replacing Boomers in the offices as each year goes by.
I think this is a common misconception. I think younger people are buying fewer cars not willingly, but by circumstance. While young, single and without kids it’s easy to utilize rideshare and public transportation. Once a child, marriage or move to burbs happens, cars are bought. This country has a love affair with its vehicles and I unfortunately don’t see that ever changing.

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Re: Three Light

Post by earthling » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:35 pm

However given their less car dependency while not having kids, those who eventually have kids in the burbs I suspect would be more willing to try free public transit than paying for parking if working downtown (not all but higher % than other generations). And allows for single car families, more desirable with modern school debts. The goal is to get a higher % to use transit, unrealistic to get all to as long as cars exist.

As a transit user and casual cyclist, I still own a car. But put only about 3K to maybe 4K/yr on it - many are trips to STL. For me owning a car is a luxury, not really a necisito.

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Re: Three Light

Post by KCPowercat » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:20 pm

DColeKC wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:17 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:55 am
DColeKC wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:28 pm


Yeah, I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about the majority of people in KC who are not and never have been downtown or urban residents. Can't fix something if you don't admit there's an issue and considering every busy bus stop is full of people I wouldn't consider professional office type workers and is often occupied by drunk homeless people. It's like driving by a house that looks run down, you assume the interior sucks too but in reality, it could be perfect.
Wtf.

Thank you for the well thought out and elaborate response. I don’t think you’re understanding what I’m trying to say but it makes sense. I’m talking about the overall generalized mindset of KC residents. Keep being offended and dropping brilliant conversation building treats like “wtf” instead of addressing and admitting the stigma of KC’s bus system. That will surely fix it!
Specifically wtf "occupied by drunk homeless people. "

I walk by multiple bus stops every day and I've never came back thinking this. It bums me me out someone who worked for the developer we partnered with to rebuild our downtown has this perception.

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Re: Three Light

Post by Critical_Mass » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:01 pm

^come on, that's a legitimate perception, though I'd say they are not drunk but mentally disturbed (or faking it) homeless people. Yes, most are harmless but they scare my wife enough that she wouldn't take the streetcar to the library by herself.

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Re: Three Light

Post by KCPowercat » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:00 pm

I don't even know the point of this line of discussion but I'm done if we as a group of urban enthusiasts walk by KC bus stops and think nobody will ride the bus because everybody at the bus stop is unsavory homeless drunk people. It's just messed up in a lot of ways.

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Re: Three Light

Post by DColeKC » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:43 pm

KCPowercat wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:00 pm
I don't even know the point of this line of discussion but I'm done if we as a group of urban enthusiasts walk by KC bus stops and think nobody will ride the bus because everybody at the bus stop is unsavory homeless drunk people. It's just messed up in a lot of ways.
One more time..... I’m not talking about ME. I know the reality, I’m talking about the overall general population of KC.

It might be messed up, but it’s true. So easily offended.

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Re: Three Light

Post by normalthings » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:54 pm

DColeKC wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:43 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:00 pm
I don't even know the point of this line of discussion but I'm done if we as a group of urban enthusiasts walk by KC bus stops and think nobody will ride the bus because everybody at the bus stop is unsavory homeless drunk people. It's just messed up in a lot of ways.
I know the reality, I’m talking about the overall general population of KC. It might be messed up, but it’s true. So easily offended.
I agree

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Re: Three Light

Post by KCPowercat » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:56 pm

Offended? Not following.

Maybe let's reset this discussion. What are we trying to fix? All I've seen is claims of people don't ride the bus because drunk homeless are around bus stops.

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Re: Three Light

Post by moderne » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:04 pm

The last few pages need to be spun off Three Light topic.

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Re: Three Light

Post by DColeKC » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:26 pm

KCPowercat wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:56 pm
Offended? Not following.

Maybe let's reset this discussion. What are we trying to fix? All I've seen is claims of people don't ride the bus because drunk homeless are around bus stops.
You can't get out of your own way here. We were talking about parking garages, which is relevant to Three Light. This lead to a topic about public transportation and more specifically buses. This all happened, so if all you've seen is "claims of people don't ride the bus because drunk homeless are around bus stops", you should go back a few posts and get yourself some context.

People don't want to ride the bus because they think it's beneath them. They love their own cars and when they do drive by, they see the bus stops occupied with people they'd likely not want to sit next to on a public bus.

Once again, for clarity, i'm referring to most KC residents, not myself.

Also, I just went to the closest bus stop, guess what I saw..... I saw why people unfamiliar with the situation assume what they do about taking the bus.

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