Three Light

Come here for discussion about the new downtown entertainment district.
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KCDowntown
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Re: Three Light

Post by KCDowntown »

A couple of permits were on Compass today for this project, both containing PDF attachments. Click on the attachment button on each permit to download them. The 2nd one has some new renderings from various vantage points around downtown. I couldn't find much new in either PDF. I didn't look that closely BTW, so I might have missed it. However, I will say that while I don't know how large an urban Target store would be, it doesn't seem to me that either of the retail spaces would be large enough to handle a larger-sized store.
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Re: Three Light

Post by flyingember »

KCDowntown wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:19 pm
However, I will say that while I don't know how large an urban Target store would be, it doesn't seem to me that either of the retail spaces would be large enough to handle a larger-sized store.
The smallest Targets are 15,000 sq feet, apparently averaging closer to 40k

The entire lot is about 25k so I would agree they're not large enough.

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Re: Three Light

Post by LCDSI »

KCDowntown wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:19 pm
A couple of permits were on Compass today for this project, both containing PDF attachments. Click on the attachment button on each permit to download them. The 2nd one has some new renderings from various vantage points around downtown. I couldn't find much new in either PDF. I didn't look that closely BTW, so I might have missed it. However, I will say that while I don't know how large an urban Target store would be, it doesn't seem to me that either of the retail spaces would be large enough to handle a larger-sized store.
KCDowntown
Thanks for the link KCDowntown. I think the new renderings look good. It may be opening later than we expected but I think it'll be a nice addition to downtown.

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Re: Three Light

Post by langosta »

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Last edited by langosta on Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:37 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Three Light

Post by wahoowa »

in my expert and sophisticated architectural opinion, these renders look like if loews and two light had a baby

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Re: Three Light

Post by normalthings »

Looks great! Lets get it built and lets start thinking about building something of height like this 40 floor apartment tower under construction in Des Moines.

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Re: Three Light

Post by earthling »

Something entirely different would've been more ideal but it does have a better complementary contrast than a monotonous wall- at least on paper. Would like to see it as a taller tri-function building - hotel/office/residential (and ideally Target at base). If not this one, maybe 4 Light.

More tri-function buildings around downtown might be easier to financially/operationally pull off (shared services, diversified leasing flexibility) and would help boost ~24/7 street life. Also provides flexibility if hotel fails in future, can be converted to micro/studio apts (and could be designed with that in mind).

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Re: Three Light

Post by DColeKC »

earthling wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:32 am
Something entirely different would've been more ideal but it does have a better complementary contrast than a monotonous wall- at least on paper. Would like to see it as a taller tri-function building - hotel/office/residential (and ideally Target at base). If not this one, maybe 4 Light.

More tri-function buildings around downtown might be easier to financially/operationally pull off (shared services, diversified leasing flexibility) and would help boost ~24/7 street life. Also provides flexibility if hotel fails in future, can be converted to micro/studio apts (and could be designed with that in mind).
I think you have to look at all the light buildings as one large idea. One Light features residential, office and retail. Two light features residential and office. Three light will likely not feature any office but much more retail. Four light will be a mixture of hotel, residential and retail.

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Re: Three Light

Post by langosta »

DColeKC wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:27 am
earthling wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:32 am
Something entirely different would've been more ideal but it does have a better complementary contrast than a monotonous wall- at least on paper. Would like to see it as a taller tri-function building - hotel/office/residential (and ideally Target at base). If not this one, maybe 4 Light.

More tri-function buildings around downtown might be easier to financially/operationally pull off (shared services, diversified leasing flexibility) and would help boost ~24/7 street life. Also provides flexibility if hotel fails in future, can be converted to micro/studio apts (and could be designed with that in mind).
I think you have to look at all the light buildings as one large idea. One Light features residential, office and retail. Two light features residential and office. Three light will likely not feature any office but much more retail. Four light will be a mixture of hotel, residential and retail.
It is my understanding that 4 Light will be our version of the Des Moines tower posted above. Both will be mixed use Hotel-Apartment-etc and both will be around 40 floors. What is disappointing is that theirs is being built right now while ours likely won’t break ground until 2022-2024.

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Re: Three Light

Post by earthling »

Seems there would be more long term operational flexibility for same building to have multi-uses that can adjust with the market changes over decades. It also allows residential/office component to use the concierge services of hotel, and keeps hotel services busy during down periods. So many benefits for all. Is why it's becoming a popular format. Would be great to see 4 Light as a tri-function but why not 3 Light too? Projects that involve public assistance especially should pursue this format as it reduces the public risk as well.

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Re: Three Light

Post by normalthings »

earthling wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:50 am
Seems there would be more long term operational flexibility for same building to have multi-uses that can adjust with the market changes over decades. It also allows residential/office component to use the concierge services of hotel, and keeps hotel services busy during down periods. So many benefits for all. Is why it's becoming a popular format. Would be great to see 4 Light as a tri-function but why not 3 Light too? Projects that involve public assistance especially should pursue this format as it reduces the public risk as well.
3 Light is proposing a new mix in our new construction market - condos, apartments, and retail.

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Re: Three Light

Post by earthling »

That's not new here and is a typical basic form of mixed use. Not the level of long term operational flexibility that tri-function buildings allow (as described). Retail space at the base of downtown buildings should be happening by default by now and unfortunately still a challenge in this town.

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Re: Three Light

Post by DColeKC »

langosta wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:41 am
DColeKC wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:27 am
earthling wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:32 am
Something entirely different would've been more ideal but it does have a better complementary contrast than a monotonous wall- at least on paper. Would like to see it as a taller tri-function building - hotel/office/residential (and ideally Target at base). If not this one, maybe 4 Light.

More tri-function buildings around downtown might be easier to financially/operationally pull off (shared services, diversified leasing flexibility) and would help boost ~24/7 street life. Also provides flexibility if hotel fails in future, can be converted to micro/studio apts (and could be designed with that in mind).
I think you have to look at all the light buildings as one large idea. One Light features residential, office and retail. Two light features residential and office. Three light will likely not feature any office but much more retail. Four light will be a mixture of hotel, residential and retail.
It is my understanding that 4 Light will be our version of the Des Moines tower posted above. Both will be mixed use Hotel-Apartment-etc and both will be around 40 floors. What is disappointing is that theirs is being built right now while ours likely won’t break ground until 2022-2024.
Four Light has always been the targeted project to do mixed hotel/residential. Cordish wants to capitalize on the demand for downtown high end residential while it's hot and also wanted to get it's feet wet in other markets as for the hotel operations side. Now, they can't wait to get that hotel up, but it will likely be a higher end hotel. They helped get Lowes involved with the convention center hotel project and have just opened the 2nd "Live by Lowes" concept in Dallas. I wonder if that tittle is out due to the proximity of the convention center hotel or if it would fly being a much higher end, boutique style hotel.

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Re: Three Light

Post by DColeKC »

earthling wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:02 pm
That's not new here and is a typical basic form of mixed use. Not the level of long term operational flexibility that tri-function buildings allow (as described). Retail space at the base of downtown buildings should be happening by default by now and unfortunately still a challenge in this town.
Every Light building features retail at its base, I'm sure some others don't but Cordish comes from a retail background, so they get the importance, even if it's not a money maker directly to them. It's highly important aspect of any new residential building and urban living.

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Re: Three Light

Post by earthling »

^Right, Cordish gets that and retail aspect isn't what I'm talking about because it should be default. I'm pushing for tri-functioning buildings beyond retail base already expected.

Downtown is struggling to get spec office building going so given this has public assistance would like to see a bit taller building with office component as well, even if coworking space initially, which is easier to rent out more quickly and could also use the hotel concierge services.

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Re: Three Light

Post by normalthings »

DColeKC wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:11 pm
langosta wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:41 am
DColeKC wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:27 am


I think you have to look at all the light buildings as one large idea. One Light features residential, office and retail. Two light features residential and office. Three light will likely not feature any office but much more retail. Four light will be a mixture of hotel, residential and retail.
It is my understanding that 4 Light will be our version of the Des Moines tower posted above. Both will be mixed use Hotel-Apartment-etc and both will be around 40 floors. What is disappointing is that theirs is being built right now while ours likely won’t break ground until 2022-2024.
Four Light has always been the targeted project to do mixed hotel/residential. Cordish wants to capitalize on the demand for downtown high end residential while it's hot and also wanted to get it's feet wet in other markets as for the hotel operations side. Now, they can't wait to get that hotel up, but it will likely be a higher end hotel. They helped get Lowes involved with the convention center hotel project and have just opened the 2nd "Live by Lowes" concept in Dallas. I wonder if that tittle is out due to the proximity of the convention center hotel or if it would fly being a much higher end, boutique style hotel.
Do you think we'll see 4 Light take off in the next year then or at least while 3 is under construction?

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Re: Three Light

Post by langosta »

Riverite wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:37 pm
When will they start building
October per Dave's Twitter

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Re: Three Light

Post by DColeKC »

normalthings wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:27 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:11 pm
langosta wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:41 am


It is my understanding that 4 Light will be our version of the Des Moines tower posted above. Both will be mixed use Hotel-Apartment-etc and both will be around 40 floors. What is disappointing is that theirs is being built right now while ours likely won’t break ground until 2022-2024.
Four Light has always been the targeted project to do mixed hotel/residential. Cordish wants to capitalize on the demand for downtown high end residential while it's hot and also wanted to get it's feet wet in other markets as for the hotel operations side. Now, they can't wait to get that hotel up, but it will likely be a higher end hotel. They helped get Lowes involved with the convention center hotel project and have just opened the 2nd "Live by Lowes" concept in Dallas. I wonder if that tittle is out due to the proximity of the convention center hotel or if it would fly being a much higher end, boutique style hotel.
Do you think we'll see 4 Light take off in the next year then or at least while 3 is under construction?
That was the plan while I was still working for them but the little spat with the city recently seemed to have slowed progress. If three light leases up and they get offers on the condos during construction, I think they'll forge ahead quickly on four light.

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Re: Three Light

Post by normalthings »

DColeKC wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:27 pm
normalthings wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:27 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:11 pm


Four Light has always been the targeted project to do mixed hotel/residential. Cordish wants to capitalize on the demand for downtown high end residential while it's hot and also wanted to get it's feet wet in other markets as for the hotel operations side. Now, they can't wait to get that hotel up, but it will likely be a higher end hotel. They helped get Lowes involved with the convention center hotel project and have just opened the 2nd "Live by Lowes" concept in Dallas. I wonder if that tittle is out due to the proximity of the convention center hotel or if it would fly being a much higher end, boutique style hotel.
Do you think we'll see 4 Light take off in the next year then or at least while 3 is under construction?
That was the plan while I was still working for them but the little spat with the city recently seemed to have slowed progress. If three light leases up and they get offers on the condos during construction, I think they'll forge ahead quickly on four light.
That is great to hear. When/where will the units be available?

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Re: Three Light

Post by normalthings »

earthling wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:16 pm
Downtown is struggling to get spec office building going so given this has public assistance would like to see a bit taller building with office component as well, even if coworking space initially, which is easier to rent out more quickly and could also use the hotel concierge services.
The Three Light Tower floor plates aren't really big enough to host modern office space. I don't think there is anything wrong with having 4 Light be hotel and residential only - especially if incorporates a city target or TJ

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