Two Light - 14th & Grand

Come here for discussion about the new downtown entertainment district.
DColeKC
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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by DColeKC »

KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:14 pm
Just park them on Walnut bridge, Cordish wants to close it at Truman anyways.
Not true.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by KCPowercat »

good to hear. Renderings of the lid don't back it up.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by DColeKC »

KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:07 pm
good to hear. Renderings of the lid don't back it up.
Cordish hasn’t produced any renderings. They’ve just invested money into studies and have made it known they’re willing to invest. They’re not tied to any major design aspects besides wanting some say and possibly some small area for resident use only.

Obviously they have no desire to make it harder to get to their tenants.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by KCPowercat »

Great to hear!

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by horizons82 »

Fantastic news, thanks for sharing DCole. Is there still small retail space included for the park? Curious how Cordish would feel about that given they still have available stalls in P&L.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by FangKC »

I imagine it would depend on the type of retail it is. A small kiosk selling ice cream and soft drinks for example wouldn't really compete with anything inside the District.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by DColeKC »

horizons82 wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:36 am
Fantastic news, thanks for sharing DCole. Is there still small retail space included for the park? Curious how Cordish would feel about that given they still have available stalls in P&L.
I haven't heard of an update but I'm sure they'd ideally love to have a kiosk or courtyard with the proper power for outside "pop-up" vendors perhaps. They want the park to be more than simply green space with programming and options for downtown residents.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by DaveKCMO »

DColeKC wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:53 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:14 pm
Just park them on Walnut bridge, Cordish wants to close it at Truman anyways.
Not true.
Good. Because the Crossroads was itching for a fight.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by DColeKC »

DaveKCMO wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:14 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:53 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:14 pm
Just park them on Walnut bridge, Cordish wants to close it at Truman anyways.
Not true.
Good. Because the Crossroads was itching for a fight.
Interesting considering the fact Cordish wants to “bridge the gap” between PNL and crossroads. I know many crossroads landlords who admit they wouldn’t have been given loans if it weren’t for PNL and understand how PNL increased their properties value substantially.

It’s funny how other entertainment districts think of PNL as some kind of enemy or competition. Weird flex.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by KCPowercat »

Crossroads isn't an entertainment district. I think all Dave was saying is cutting off streets was bad for the neighborhood and they were willing to fight for it, not that they see pnl as am enemy, but go 100 defensive straight away.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by DColeKC »

KCPowercat wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:01 pm
Crossroads isn't an entertainment district. I think all Dave was saying is cutting off streets was bad for the neighborhood and they were willing to fight for it, not that they see pnl as am enemy, but go 100 defensive straight away.
I spent years hearing about the crossroads Vs PNL and have first hand knowledge of the back and forth that took place. Entertainment, Arts, neighborhood district. Whatever.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by KCPowercat »

DColeKC wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:12 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:01 pm
Crossroads isn't an entertainment district. I think all Dave was saying is cutting off streets was bad for the neighborhood and they were willing to fight for it, not that they see pnl as am enemy, but go 100 defensive straight away.
I spent years hearing about the crossroads Vs PNL and have first hand knowledge of the back and forth that took place. Entertainment, Arts, neighborhood district. Whatever.
I'm just taking about closing Walnut. Glad to hear nobody want sit closed. Win win.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by smh »

The worst thing you could do for a public park is carve out a private space for nearby elites. What a late capitalism joke.

"Uh, SIR, this is the Chase Sapphire Reserve Two Light Residents' Lounge On The Park, you'll need to go back out there to the commons if you don't have a key fob or wristband. -- Cheryl, can we get another tray of mimosas to table 7 stat? Thanks hon."

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by DColeKC »

smh wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:22 pm
The worst thing you could do for a public park is carve out a private space for nearby elites. What a late capitalism joke.

"Uh, SIR, this is the Chase Sapphire Reserve Two Light Residents' Lounge On The Park, you'll need to go back out there to the commons if you don't have a key fob or wristband. -- Cheryl, can we get another tray of mimosas to table 7 stat? Thanks hon."
I believe much like a public park, there will be areas where people can reserve for get togethers and they wouldn’t be exclusive to residents.

If there’s any retail kiosks obviously those would be open to the public.

The only thing possibly limited to residents only would be a dog run/area like Two Light already has.

The project doesn’t get done without private money and I don’t think it’s unacceptable for them to want something in return. Especially if they intend to maintain it instead of the city.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by kboish »

smh wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:22 pm
The worst thing you could do for a public park is carve out a private space for nearby elites. What a late capitalism joke.

"Uh, SIR, this is the Chase Sapphire Reserve Two Light Residents' Lounge On The Park, you'll need to go back out there to the commons if you don't have a key fob or wristband. -- Cheryl, can we get another tray of mimosas to table 7 stat? Thanks hon."
There is a dog park in Case Park that requires a fob to get in. I think the residents near there appreciate it.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by WoodDraw »

A private dog park is fine, but everyone should be allowed to pay for it, not just cordish.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by DColeKC »

WoodDraw wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:09 pm
A private dog park is fine, but everyone should be allowed to pay for it, not just cordish.
I guess that could be an option but having a nice dog park for your residents is a competitive advantage over other apartment buildings and could be the deciding factor for some residents. I guess they could not put in a dog park at all and let all downtown residents utilize the park for their dogs to shit. You’ll need a full time person picking up after residents because there would be no way to hold them liable like you can in a FOB controlled dog park.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by TheBigChuckbowski »

DColeKC wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:09 pm
smh wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:22 pm
The worst thing you could do for a public park is carve out a private space for nearby elites. What a late capitalism joke.

"Uh, SIR, this is the Chase Sapphire Reserve Two Light Residents' Lounge On The Park, you'll need to go back out there to the commons if you don't have a key fob or wristband. -- Cheryl, can we get another tray of mimosas to table 7 stat? Thanks hon."
I believe much like a public park, there will be areas where people can reserve for get togethers and they wouldn’t be exclusive to residents.

If there’s any retail kiosks obviously those would be open to the public.

The only thing possibly limited to residents only would be a dog run/area like Two Light already has.

The project doesn’t get done without private money and I don’t think it’s unacceptable for them to want something in return. Especially if they intend to maintain it instead of the city.
I'm sorry, you're saying they want to build a project worth hundreds of millions of dollars, spend however much to maintain it and the thing they want to get out of it is a private dog park? Really?

That would be the single dumbest thing I can possibly imagine the city/state/MODOT spending money on (or Cordish, for that matter). Hundreds of millions of tax dollars so that rich downtown loft dwellers can let their dogs dump in privacy, vastly limiting the potential for a grand park in this location.

If a dog park has that much value (it doesn't), just put it on top of Three Light's garage or replace a surface lot.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by DColeKC »

TheBigChuckbowski wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:09 pm
DColeKC wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:09 pm
smh wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:22 pm
The worst thing you could do for a public park is carve out a private space for nearby elites. What a late capitalism joke.

"Uh, SIR, this is the Chase Sapphire Reserve Two Light Residents' Lounge On The Park, you'll need to go back out there to the commons if you don't have a key fob or wristband. -- Cheryl, can we get another tray of mimosas to table 7 stat? Thanks hon."
I believe much like a public park, there will be areas where people can reserve for get togethers and they wouldn’t be exclusive to residents.

If there’s any retail kiosks obviously those would be open to the public.

The only thing possibly limited to residents only would be a dog run/area like Two Light already has.

The project doesn’t get done without private money and I don’t think it’s unacceptable for them to want something in return. Especially if they intend to maintain it instead of the city.
I'm sorry, you're saying they want to build a project worth hundreds of millions of dollars, spend however much to maintain it and the thing they want to get out of it is a private dog park? Really?

That would be the single dumbest thing I can possibly imagine the city/state/MODOT spending money on (or Cordish, for that matter). Hundreds of millions of tax dollars so that rich downtown loft dwellers can let their dogs dump in privacy, vastly limiting the potential for a grand park in this location.

If a dog park has that much value (it doesn't), just put it on top of Three Light's garage or replace a surface lot.
No, that’s not what I’m saying. Not even 1/100th of what I’m saying. Of course there’s a ton of benefits for Cordish and this the reason they’re willing to be put in millions and millions for the project.

Property Value
Residential value having a huge park across the street
Connecting the crossroads and PNL district
Squashing interstate road noise
Views from balconies
On and on.

They have no expectations that it won’t be 95%+ open to the public. The park would be a grand public part with a tiny percentage fenced in for residents to let’s their dogs run off a leash. I’m not sure why this is so radical for some people to accept.

As someone who had dogs in One Light and had to take them to the green room. It was a massive pain in the ass. At two light, the ability to run out to the dog run is a game changer. Main reason we made the move. Roof tops are a joke and there will be no surface parking lots once Cordish is done.

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Re: Two Light - 14th & Grand

Post by Riverite »

As long as the park is not too big I don’t have a problem with it, plenty of parks in Other countries (not sure about the states) have fenced off areas for private clubs

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