OFFICIAL: Power & Light District

[Chris Stritzel]

Bird and other scooter companies can impose a geofence on certain areas. If they wanted to, they could probably make it to where the geofence goes into effect after 7:30 at the Power and Light District but leave it open elsewhere. I agree that flat out banning them is shortsighted.

[KCPowercat]

Sure. Wondering which it is.

[DColeKC]

So wait all scooters shutdown at 730pm? This is a very hamhanded and shortsighted approach. They are a valid transportation option.

The way this city "solves" problems (alongside the urging of the cordish/westport $ folks of the world) is so backasswards

The area around the live block is geofenced to shut off scooters at 7:30. You can still push it through and pick back up on your journey.

The situation was very dangerous, unless you think dozens and dozens of underage kids riding scooters at midnight on a Saturday has some sort of benefit to the city? Who they going to sue when they hurt themselves on city property? Cops can't catch people on them because they just ride away.

These kids are NOT using the scooters for a valid form of transpiration.

[beautyfromashes]

I love seeing kids on scooters DT. It’s opening a whole new generation to the joys of an urban environment. Those 15yos will turn into 18yos soon and then 21. Giving them a good feeling about our urban core is instant marketing for a growing DT where those kids in scooters will want to live, work and play.

[normalthings]

I love seeing kids on scooters DT. It’s opening a whole new generation to the joys of an urban environment. Those 15yos will turn into 18yos soon and then 21. Giving them a good feeling about our urban core is instant marketing for a growing DT where those kids in scooters will want to live, work and play.

Exactly my thoughts. First Fridays (Cancelled) and now scooters (soon to be cancelled?) are how we are introducing future generations to downtown life. The only truly unsafe situations I have seen are when the scooters get tangled up with the ATV riders or burn out crews. I have yet to see any reports of fights amongst the scooters groups.

We need to promote activities that get future residents to explore downtown. This is one of the best ways to do it.
Getting people downtown for singular events like a sports game or performance at Sprint don’t socialize youth to downtown living like exploration does.

Kids riding around at midnight shows the perception of crime related safety here. You would never see that in STL’s downtown at midnight.

[wahoowa]

whatever scooter company just geofences off all the goddamn sidewalks first should be allowed to have a nationwide monopoly

[DColeKC]

I love seeing kids on scooters DT. It’s opening a whole new generation to the joys of an urban environment. Those 15yos will turn into 18yos soon and then 21. Giving them a good feeling about our urban core is instant marketing for a growing DT where those kids in scooters will want to live, work and play.

Exactly my thoughts. First Fridays (Cancelled) and now scooters (soon to be cancelled?) are how we are introducing future generations to downtown life. The only truly unsafe situations I have seen are when the scooters get tangled up with the ATV riders or burn out crews. I have yet to see any reports of fights amongst the scooters groups.

We need to promote activities that get future residents to explore downtown. This is one of the best ways to do it.
Getting people downtown for singular events like a sports game or performance at Sprint don’t socialize youth to downtown living like exploration does.

Kids riding around at midnight shows the perception of crime related safety here. You would never see that in STL’s downtown at midnight.

The Saturday I witnessed what was going on, it was 11:30. My first thought as a parent was why are children out riding scooters at this time. But, I put my old man thoughts aside and just watched. I got a very distributive vibe from the crowd. It wasn’t about innocent fun it was about messing with pedestrians and traffic. Anytime the police went by fingers went up along with boos. A random 12 year old came up to me and did some odd hand gesture 1” from my face and than ran off. No idea what that was about.

I’m also all for the scooters and I love riding them. I want youth downtown as well but not after a certain time on the weekends. There’s a reason the concerts at the live area are not 21+ on Thursday’s even though that would probably mean more revenue. It’s because they want the younger generation coming down and experiencing the place so when they turn 21, they become customers.

[scooterj]

Not long ago I witnessed a group of kids circling a block riding them on the sidewalk, riding through a sidewalk seating area and deliberate bumping into people's tables. After about the third or fourth time they did this a customer finally told them to get off the sidewalks and some of the kids jumped off and threatened to beat up that customer. Then a few weeks ago a friend of mine was walking on the sidewalk and was punched in the face by a kid riding a scooter on the sidewalk. Two weekends ago in addition to sidewalk-riders I saw a group of kids on them deliberately using them to hold up traffic at 12th & Grand. So not only do I support them being shut down at 7:30 at P&L, I'd love to see this geofence widened to cover even more of the problem areas. It's getting to the point where they are starting to cause more problems than benefits.

[KCPowercat]

I love seeing kids on scooters DT. It’s opening a whole new generation to the joys of an urban environment. Those 15yos will turn into 18yos soon and then 21. Giving them a good feeling about our urban core is instant marketing for a growing DT where those kids in scooters will want to live, work and play.

Exactly my thoughts. First Fridays (Cancelled) and now scooters (soon to be cancelled?) are how we are introducing future generations to downtown life. The only truly unsafe situations I have seen are when the scooters get tangled up with the ATV riders or burn out crews. I have yet to see any reports of fights amongst the scooters groups.

We need to promote activities that get future residents to explore downtown. This is one of the best ways to do it.
Getting people downtown for singular events like a sports game or performance at Sprint don’t socialize youth to downtown living like exploration does.

Kids riding around at midnight shows the perception of crime related safety here. You would never see that in STL’s downtown at midnight.

The Saturday I witnessed what was going on, it was 11:30. My first thought as a parent was why are children out riding scooters at this time. But, I put my old man thoughts aside and just watched. I got a very distributive vibe from the crowd. It wasn’t about innocent fun it was about messing with pedestrians and traffic. Anytime the police went by fingers went up along with boos. A random 12 year old came up to me and did some odd hand gesture 1” from my face and than ran off. No idea what that was about.

I’m also all for the scooters and I love riding them. I want youth downtown as well but not after a certain time on the weekends. There’s a reason the concerts at the live area are not 21+ on Thursday’s even though that would probably mean more revenue. It’s because they want the younger generation coming down and experiencing the place so when they turn 21, they become customers.

Despite cordish desires they don't get to decide who downtown is for. Age, race, etc. All seem to be problem for them to realize.

Btw walked by last night from dinner. Scooters could go by fine, didn't slow down, not a bunch of kids riding around and that cover band blaring talk dirty to me. Lol great band from st Louis.

The boomers seem to be enjoying it though

[DColeKC]

Exactly my thoughts. First Fridays (Cancelled) and now scooters (soon to be cancelled?) are how we are introducing future generations to downtown life. The only truly unsafe situations I have seen are when the scooters get tangled up with the ATV riders or burn out crews. I have yet to see any reports of fights amongst the scooters groups.

We need to promote activities that get future residents to explore downtown. This is one of the best ways to do it.
Getting people downtown for singular events like a sports game or performance at Sprint don’t socialize youth to downtown living like exploration does.

Kids riding around at midnight shows the perception of crime related safety here. You would never see that in STL’s downtown at midnight.

The Saturday I witnessed what was going on, it was 11:30. My first thought as a parent was why are children out riding scooters at this time. But, I put my old man thoughts aside and just watched. I got a very distributive vibe from the crowd. It wasn’t about innocent fun it was about messing with pedestrians and traffic. Anytime the police went by fingers went up along with boos. A random 12 year old came up to me and did some odd hand gesture 1” from my face and than ran off. No idea what that was about.

I’m also all for the scooters and I love riding them. I want youth downtown as well but not after a certain time on the weekends. There’s a reason the concerts at the live area are not 21+ on Thursday’s even though that would probably mean more revenue. It’s because they want the younger generation coming down and experiencing the place so when they turn 21, they become customers.

Despite cordish desires they don't get to decide who downtown is for. Age, race, etc. All seem to be problem for them to realize.

Btw walked by last night from dinner. Scooters could go by fine, didn't slow down, not a bunch of kids riding around and that cover band blaring talk dirty to me. Lol great band from st Louis.

The boomers seem to be enjoying it though

You’re a lost cause man. A real piece of work. The only concern is safety of guests. You’re always so quick to make this about control or something more than it is. Big bad Cordish wants to control this or that.

Oh wait, the band was playing a poison song? Make sense considering they’re a 80’s cover band boss. Glad you “walked by” at 9:10pm and have it all summed up! Sure you were able to utilize your musician expertise to judge the quality of the band during that 22 second walk by.

They have a legendary cover band tonight. Well Hungarians. Please walk by and let us know your assessment clown.

[FlippantCitizen]

I have seen kids riding the scooters in a quite reckless fashion (on sidewalks weaving around pedestrians, in the middle of a traffic lane going in the wrong direction.) I have seen this late at night DT and in Westport. I have also seen this at 1pm on The Plaza. I highly doubt this problem will be solved by a 7:30 scooter curfew. Kids will misuse them when they can (and it is probably harmless 98% of the time) and people who are made uncomfortable by the precense of youth in public will probably still fear them regardless of what they are doing. See "ephebiphobia."

As for the defensiveness about P&L... I can offer my observation as a relative newcomer to the city. P&L serves a certain demographic, that is clear to me. My cousin who is a over 30 and loves country music goes all the time. She's invited me out with her and friends and I have to say as someone who is a little under 30 and not into country or cover bands... lets just say I never need to spend much time there. KC has some fine nightlife and from my own perspective P&L doesn't factor into it at all, to each there own though. I really can't understand the blindspot some have here over how discomfiting it is for private entities to exercise such influence over what should be public space and ammenities. Why should the a key transportation tool that I use in my own neighborhood be affected by the concerns of a few business owners in a far away entertainment district? Why is it that the entertainment district closer to my home is violating people's civil rights simply for occupying public space? TBH I'm pretty disgusted by the attitude of certain bussiness owners and their entitlement around the idea that issues affecting their ability to make money trump basic rights and concerns of citizens.

[beautyfromashes]

It's getting to the point where they are starting to cause more problems than benefits.

scooterj hates scooters.

[KCPowercat]

The Saturday I witnessed what was going on, it was 11:30. My first thought as a parent was why are children out riding scooters at this time. But, I put my old man thoughts aside and just watched. I got a very distributive vibe from the crowd. It wasn’t about innocent fun it was about messing with pedestrians and traffic. Anytime the police went by fingers went up along with boos. A random 12 year old came up to me and did some odd hand gesture 1” from my face and than ran off. No idea what that was about.

I’m also all for the scooters and I love riding them. I want youth downtown as well but not after a certain time on the weekends. There’s a reason the concerts at the live area are not 21+ on Thursday’s even though that would probably mean more revenue. It’s because they want the younger generation coming down and experiencing the place so when they turn 21, they become customers.

Despite cordish desires they don't get to decide who downtown is for. Age, race, etc. All seem to be problem for them to realize.

Btw walked by last night from dinner. Scooters could go by fine, didn't slow down, not a bunch of kids riding around and that cover band blaring talk dirty to me. Lol great band from st Louis.

The boomers seem to be enjoying it though

You’re a lost cause man. A real piece of work. The only concern is safety of guests. You’re always so quick to make this about control or something more than it is. Big bad Cordish wants to control this or that.

Oh wait, the band was playing a poison song? Make sense considering they’re a 80’s cover band boss. Glad you “walked by” at 9:10pm and have it all summed up! Sure you were able to utilize your musician expertise to judge the quality of the band during that 22 second walk by.

They have a legendary cover band tonight. Well Hungarians. Please walk by and let us know your assessment clown.

Pro tip, the guy who created this site and this specific room for p&l and a decades long downtown resident does not hate it and has been trying for decades to make sure it succeeds. Giving you the experience I had about scooters right after you said they were shutdown at 7pm. This speaks to why cordish isn't connecting with the residents though.

Maybe don't oversell a cover band.

[im2kull]

whatever scooter company just geofences off all the goddamn sidewalks first should be allowed to have a nationwide monopoly

You apparently have no idea how inaccurate GPS and geofencing is...

I got a very distributive vibe from the crowd. It wasn’t about innocent fun it was about messing with pedestrians and traffic. Anytime the police went by fingers went up along with boos.

You reap what you sow. This shouldn't surprise anyone.

A random 12 year old came up to me and did some odd hand gesture 1” from my face and than ran off. No idea what that was about.

He was obviously making a race based gang FU/hate your skin color gesture. It's not rocket science.

Not long ago I witnessed a group of kids circling a block riding them on the sidewalk, riding through a sidewalk seating area and deliberate bumping into people's tables. After about the third or fourth time they did this a customer finally told them to get off the sidewalks and some of the kids jumped off and threatened to beat up that customer. Then a few weeks ago a friend of mine was walking on the sidewalk and was punched in the face by a kid riding a scooter on the sidewalk. Two weekends ago in addition to sidewalk-riders I saw a group of kids on them deliberately using them to hold up traffic at 12th & Grand. So not only do I support them being shut down at 7:30 at P&L, I'd love to see this geofence widened to cover even more of the problem areas. It's getting to the point where they are starting to cause more problems than benefits.

Scooters are causing problems, or the trashy, destructive folks riding them in those instances?? You should put the blame where it lies.

As for the defensiveness about P&L... I can offer my observation as a relative newcomer to the city. P&L serves a certain demographic, that is clear to me. My cousin who is a over 30 and loves country music goes all the time. She's invited me out with her and friends and I have to say as someone who is a little under 30 and not into country or cover bands... lets just say I never need to spend much time there.

Yes, P&L only caters to white hicks who like country music. Nevermind the relentless string of rap music being broadcast around the district...

I really can't understand the blindspot some have here over how discomfiting it is for private entities to exercise such influence over what should be public space and ammenities. Why is it that the entertainment district closer to my home is violating people's civil rights simply for occupying public space? TBH I'm pretty disgusted by the attitude of certain bussiness owners and their entitlement around the idea that issues affecting their ability to make money trump basic rights and concerns of citizens.

Maybe because the entertainment district is a private space, owned and operated by a private, for profit corporation. That private, for profit corporation can do whatever it wants within its space. Buy the district and make it however you want it to be if you disagree. Welcome to the real world.

[FlippantCitizen]

Maybe because the entertainment district is a private space, owned and operated by a private, for profit corporation. That private, for profit corporation can do whatever it wants within its space. Buy the district and make it however you want it to be if you disagree. Welcome to the real world.

I fully understand the interior areas of the P&L are private areas. The streets are not. In no other city I've lived do I think a a single developer would be able complain about the discomfort of their customers and result in a micromobility option having a new curfew placed on it. Maybe I'm not being fair and this had a lot of other voices behind it. I don't know. Regardless, I'll be upset if I get back to town and can't use a scooter after 7:30 which had frankly been a pretty regular thing for me.

[DColeKC]

Maybe because the entertainment district is a private space, owned and operated by a private, for profit corporation. That private, for profit corporation can do whatever it wants within its space. Buy the district and make it however you want it to be if you disagree. Welcome to the real world.

I fully understand the interior areas of the P&L are private areas. The streets are not. In no other city I've lived do I think a a single developer would be able complain about the discomfort of their customers and result in a micromobility option having a new curfew placed on it. Maybe I'm not being fair and this had a lot of other voices behind it. I don't know. Regardless, I'll be upset if I get back to town and can't use a scooter after 7:30 which had frankly been a pretty regular thing for me.

You won’t be able to use a bird after 7:30 for one block. Have you lived in a city where one developer owns 8 city blocks and has almost a billion invested in the area? This isn’t a developer who owns a few bars. The city is invested in the area as well. The developer didn’t even complain about the street issues, their concern was the sidewalk issues. They own the sidewalks.

Lastly, the city has had several issues with this and have been tying up resources to deal with it. First it was the street racing and that became popular, than comes the bird stunt crews. No one wants to ban them, but it’s not the wild Wild West.

[DColeKC]

Despite cordish desires they don't get to decide who downtown is for. Age, race, etc. All seem to be problem for them to realize.

Btw walked by last night from dinner. Scooters could go by fine, didn't slow down, not a bunch of kids riding around and that cover band blaring talk dirty to me. Lol great band from st Louis.

The boomers seem to be enjoying it though

You’re a lost cause man. A real piece of work. The only concern is safety of guests. You’re always so quick to make this about control or something more than it is. Big bad Cordish wants to control this or that.

Oh wait, the band was playing a poison song? Make sense considering they’re a 80’s cover band boss. Glad you “walked by” at 9:10pm and have it all summed up! Sure you were able to utilize your musician expertise to judge the quality of the band during that 22 second walk by.

They have a legendary cover band tonight. Well Hungarians. Please walk by and let us know your assessment clown.

Pro tip, the guy who created this site and this specific room for p&l and a decades long downtown resident does not hate it and has been trying for decades to make sure it succeeds. Giving you the experience I had about scooters right after you said they were shutdown at 7pm. This speaks to why cordish isn't connecting with the residents though.

Maybe don't oversell a cover band.

First off, I don’t care that you started this forum and room just like I don’t care you’re a KSU fan and drive an Audi. If you want to offer up criticism and want it to make it back to Cordish, you can. You’re little cunty way of offering the criticism isn’t the way. That’s my pro tip to you.

How do you know Cordish isn’t connecting with the residents? Because a company rep doesn’t pop on here and say, “Thank you Mr Powercat for that information, we will take it into consideration and do better.”

You offer your info about the scooters, which was in reference to the less popular and far less numerous Spin brand scooters. They haven’t activated the 7:30pm mode yet. That’s a fine observation if you present it properly and not with snarky anecdote about the band.

I’ve never got the feeling you do anything to make sure PNL succeeds. Maybe it’s directed at me, but you’re always negative and condescending about it.

Don’t oversell a cover band? Lol. Look at the bands schedule and the places they play. They sell out knuckleheads when they play there. I said a great band and you walk by and hear 30 seconds of one song and I’m over selling? Gtfo.

[beautyfromashes]

What a dick! An embarrassment to Cordish and yourself.

[DaveKCMO]

The city refuses to make two key policy shifts with shared scooters:

1. Require "lock-to" operations. This reinforces the parking requirements the for-profit scooter companies attempt to manage, but have become completely ineffective. Chicago is a major city that has this requirement and it virtually eliminates scofflaw parking. KCMO saw this directly with the 1-year "RideKC" scooter deployment that used "lock-to" for every device. Local bike share still operates this way (and generates very few parking complaints).

2. Move all sanctioned scooter parking into the street. KCMO has done this in very limited areas -- SW Blvd & Baltimore, 18t & Oak, 13th & Grand -- but the official regulation is that they can park on the sidewalk in the "amenity zone" or near available bike racks. The problem, of course, is that lay people have no concept of what the amenity zone is and there is a dearth of public bike racks. Also, people clearly don't understand what ADA ramps are for and I can't tell you how many times I have to drag a Bird off of the ramp so someone in a wheelchair can reach the beg button to cross a street safely with a WALK signal. It's simple: Ride in the street, park in the street.

So instead we're left with spot geofencing (which is not super effective) and special cases for parking and riding that leaves users confused. On top of that, there's little enforcement for dangerous group riding that's tied to a PD tasked with too many things when they should be hyper-focused on violent crime reduction.

All that said, I'd pick lawless bands of scooter bros on the sidewalks over lawless bands of polluting muscle cars and not-street-legal ATVs spinning out in crowded intersections any day of the week.

[FlippantCitizen]

You won’t be able to use a bird after 7:30 for one block. Have you lived in a city where one developer owns 8 city blocks and has almost a billion invested in the area? This isn’t a developer who owns a few bars. The city is invested in the area as well. The developer didn’t even complain about the street issues, their concern was the sidewalk issues. They own the sidewalks.

Lastly, the city has had several issues with this and have been tying up resources to deal with it. First it was the street racing and that became popular, than comes the bird stunt crews. No one wants to ban them, but it’s not the wild Wild West.

So the 7:30 curfew is geofenced to the P&L Block? I'm fine with that. That's not what I took away from previous posts though. FYI I've lived in a city where developers have a billion in single buildings, but your point is illustrative and is the very reason why people feel hawkish about Cordish. Power should invite a lot of scrutiny.