Long-term prognosis of Power and Light District

[KCPowercat]

let's pause to reflect about the question that begat this thread, and see how far we have come.  monumental.

True....we blasted that newbie for stereotyping the area around P&L...and now some have went on to stereotyping those who are in the P&L....we really didn't go that far.

[Highlander]

I love the P&L District..

Just don't want to see it 10 years from now as a cess pool crawling with nothing but drunks, lowlifes, and Jerry Maizer types (Can ya help a man put a downpayement on a cheeseburger).

The P&L district doesn't need to imitate Westport.  It needs to be a full fledged 24/7 center of our city.  However, it needs to offer more than dining and bars to do so.

Your thinking is a bit too linear.  If the P&L District continues to rely on patrons imported from the burbs and the occasional concert/Big XII tournament, it is now all that it will ever be.  If downtown thrives as a residential area, which means it probably is also thriving as a workplace, everything you think is limited about the P&L District will change.  Already, the place has a grocery store and theater which is serving a local community.  I do not think downtown has to change radically to round out the P&L District but downtown does need to score a few more thousand office workers which will, in turn, have the desired effect on residential.  Nothing is going to change with the venues that the P&L District offers until that happens. 

[GRID]

If only you guys put this much passion into doing something with the 50-60% of the Downtown Loop that is still extremely under developed....

I mean, the Live Block is just a tiny part of Downtown really.  High profile sure, but tiny.  I still can not believe the Sprint Center (or the rest of the investment downtown) has not triggered one single development east of Grand and very little, if anything west of Grand (that was not already in the works.)

[bahua]

I'm glad the Power and Light District is there, but make no mistake: I thought downtown was the best part of town well before any of that was under construction or even being discussed. I'm not touting myself as some kind of urban pioneer- I'm not. There's just no part of town that had the number and variety of fun, interesting bars within walking distance that downtown had when I moved there in 2003. That has been a bit wiped off by the Power and Light District, but there's still a ton to do downtown, and it remains, even without the P&L(which I rarely visit) my favorite neighborhood in town.

As for the possibly earnest question of the OP: I think the P&L will be just fine, regardless of who owns it.

[im2kull]

If only you guys put this much passion into doing something with the 50-60% of the Downtown Loop that is still extremely under developed....

I mean, the Live Block is just a tiny part of Downtown really.  High profile sure, but tiny.  I still can not believe the Sprint Center (or the rest of the investment downtown) has not triggered one single development east of Grand and very little, if anything west of Grand (that was not already in the works.)

Completely agree.  P&L is such a tiny, tiny part of DT when you actually think about it (Even within the loop...its miniscule!).

[aknowledgeableperson]

To follow up on my previous post I will break down the P&L into various sections.  This is not so much as to predict, just presenting a "possible" future.

The area that was to be a hotel will not become a hotel, at least for 10 to 15 years, if KC decides to build a conventin hotel.  Not that they would be in direct price competition but many will see the P&L hotel taking away business from the convention hotel.  Also there will be the concern about supporting both hotels given the city's current financial condition.

The area that was to be residential will have to wait at least 5 years before construction is contemplated, and that might be conservative.  The current economy and credit markets just don't line up right for a project like this.

The retail portion is what it is and will not improve in the foreseeable future.  One of the major things holding back retail here is the lack of population (another thing is the economy).  Yes, the daytime population may be high but few of them will actually shop.  What is needed is people living in the area and that is hurt by the item mentioned above.

The Empire/Midland buildings will survive but will not be the winners that many expected.  Out of the two the Midland will perform better.  The movie theaters will become just another set of screens for AMC and will likely age like the Ward Parkway theaters.

KC Live is a tough one to predict.  Restaurant/bar options will come and go depending on what is hot and what's not.  The big change just might be in the outdoor area.  As the current 20somethings grow older have have families they just might want an area to bring the kids to.  So this outdoor area just might become more family themed.  On Fri or Sat nights having open air concerts like Crown Center had, or show family movies.  It just might compete for the types of festivals Crown Center hosts.

[KCPowercat]

what shocked me most about that predicition is KC is going to lose the 20'something age range after the current ones get older....this is biblical.

[KC-wildcat]

The bigger question here though is, are the people who come to visit from suburbia going to be so enamored of the thing that they want to live in it? I hope so, but I just can't see it happening. "Great place to visit, wouldn't want to live there."

I think it depends on who you're talking about.  For those people who have been suburbanized for a longer period of time probably won't be converted.  Highly unlikely. 

However, I believe that many recent college grads from KSU, KU, MU, UMKC, etc. are much more likely to ascribe to an urban setting.  Pre-P&L most of these people flooded Plaza and Brookside area.  Now, I think a number of these people will start considering DTKC.  Especially if they happen to work here.  I know three people (Wallstreet, SoHo South, DT Lofts) who have moved or will be shortly moving downtown.  They are all moving here because of P&L.  Not necessarily because of Live!, but rather, because of the activity.  It's energetic down here.  It's also much more sustainable with the grocery store. 

[aknowledgeableperson]

what shocked me most about that predicition is KC is going to lose the 20'something age range after the current ones get older....this is biblical.

Where is it said that KC is losing the 20something age range.  KC could still have the 20somethings but instead of KC Live they might migrate to another area, which could be at another dt location.  Afterall shouldn't downtown show some more development in 10 to 20 years?  If not then why do all that has been done?
The point is as the current 20somethings age their interests will change and they will look for other things to do.  Also, the interests of the 20somethings 10 to 15 years from now may be different than the current crop.

[kcmetro]

Also, the interests of the 20somethings 10 to 15 years from now may be different than the current crop.

Most likely not.  20-somethings like to drink and hook up.  The P&L is the perfect breeding ground for that. 

[KCPowercat]

nah he's right on....I mean westport only lasted one generation of 20 year olds.

akp....thanks for your insight but you might not be our resident expert on nightlife and the 30 and under crowd.

[kard]

...
The point is as the current 20somethings age their interests will change and they will look for other things to do.  Also, the interests of the 20somethings 10 to 15 years from now may be different than the current crop.

i get what you're saying, but i think it's more likely that the 20-somethings turned 30-somethings will migrate to crown center rather than for the power and light district to migrate to the 30-something destination.

[KCPowercat]

from the crowd I see...the live block is popular up until the retirement aged people....typical akp trolling.

[shinatoo]

So it depends on Depends?

[aknowledgeableperson]

....typical akp trolling.

Like your postings.

[Highlander]

KC Live is a tough one to predict.  Restaurant/bar options will come and go depending on what is hot and what's not.  The big change just might be in the outdoor area.  As the current 20somethings grow older have have families they just might want an area to bring the kids to.  So this outdoor area just might become more family themed.  On Fri or Sat nights having open air concerts like Crown Center had, or show family movies.  It just might compete for the types of festivals Crown Center hosts.

The difference will be that as the current 20-something group ages, they will have had a history of going downtown and to the district.  Although they may not live in DT as they mature and have families, going downtown will be something that they won't have a problem doing the rest of their lives.  Even in the worst of times, downtown has had a more viable and consistent history than some of its suburban counterparts.  It will always be relevant, the Indian Springs, Blue Ridge Malls, Bannister Malls, Metcalfe Souths and many other suburban competitors of this world are fleeting and temporary.

I am 50 now and probably the last of the last generation (until now) of people that grew up with a history of going downtown.  That's why I love it there, I went to Macy's, EBT, Italian Gardens and Jennie's all the time as a kid and young adult and it gave me a familiarity with the urban core that many of my slightly younger friends never had.  Same will be true for the current generation enjoying their time in the District.

[aknowledgeableperson]

I have not said that dt will be rejected, just said that over time how KC Live is used "might" change.

Consider:
Many arenas have been replaced by newer arenas in a 25 to 35 year time frame.  SC could also be replaced with a new areana at another location, dt or elsewhere.
It is quite possible that if dt is further developed another hot entertainment district, like KC Live and next to the new arena, just might also be built.
At the same time entertainment hotspots do change over a period of time.
If business does decrease in KC Live over time due to whatever reason(s) it is reasonable to assume that Cordish, or any possible successor, might change the nature of the district.

Much like what were once office buildings are now residences what is a bar/restaurant district just might be something else at some point in the future.

You and KCP seem to be saying what it is now will always be without admitting that things just might, and likely will, change in the future.

downtown has had a more viable and consistent history than some of its suburban counterparts.  It will always be relevant, the Indian Springs, Blue Ridge Malls, Bannister Malls, Metcalfe Souths and many other suburban competitors of this world are fleeting and temporary.

Am not sure what you mean by consistent since downtown has had its downs for many of the last 40 years, or so says many who post here.

[Downtowner]

How many $850 million developments are going to spring up in the metro to compete with this? Nearly every downtown in America is the center of nightlife. Are we going to buck the trend in the future? I hope not.

[KCPowercat]

akp...bring one thing of note to this site and I will quit calling you a troll...teill then....

[aknowledgeableperson]

How many $850 million developments are going to spring up in the metro to compete with this?

With regards to my posting I was only talking about the KC Live part of the P&L that might change so someone does not have to have a $850M development.

bring one thing of note to this site and I will quit calling you a troll...teill then

I guess you have the philosophy that what it is now it will always be.  Things do change.  You are beginning to sound like someone who lived/worked dt in the 50's.  "It will never change."

BTW, what does the word "teill" mean in the context being used by you?