Poll: Power & Light District Dress Code

[loftguy]

I have a son that has wholly embraced the thug fashion scene.  Sagging, tent shirts, bling.  He would be wearing a grill if GiGi's wig shop sold them.  He knows that his look affects how people perceive him and that his choices limit his opportunities.

When going in for a job interview, he adopts fashion that makes him look preppy.  He adopts more mainstream attire when attending family and friend functions that dictate adherence to a "higher" code of fashion.  It pisses him off to have to adapt to expected norms, because after all his intent is to be coolly rejecting of societies expectations.

I defied convention at one time, and today I still do in my way.  However, if there is something desired in the way of experience or achievement, behavior modifies in order to make it happen. 

[coreyo]

i wonder how many drug deal busts we'll see in the P&L within the first 6 months. I've definitely seen a few on the Plaza... why not the P&L?

[NDTeve]

i agree, but at the same time it is a sad reality that it just takes one "Skybox"-esque incident to (fatally?) damage the P+L in the eyes of the tourists and suburban/exurbanites who cordish needs to come to the district. 

i don't like this overinclusive policy either, but i think it is totally understandable.  i also think that the good folks who dress that way would understand as well and put on some more appropriate attire. 

although really, are there going to be any "hip hop" style clubs in the district?

Hopefully none. These places in Westport have killed business for places like Kelly's

[chrizow]

First, you are making the gross generalization that people who wear baggy pants, jerseys, work boots, etc. are thugs. 
Second, you claim that this generalization about thugs is race neutral. 

I think this is funny.  And I think you're being dishonest with yourself. 

It is FALSE that wearing these clothes makes you a thug. 
It is FALSE that this generalization is race neutral.  Give me a break.  Most of us have grown up in the MTV generation.  We are immersed in pop culture.  It is not a novel idea that rap music has had a profound effect on generations of young, black males.  http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-15282517.html.  It has also had a profound effect on how people view and categorize young black males.  Sure, there are white kids who are influenced by the hip-hop and rap culture, but don't be intentionally naiive Dave, we know whose buying the music.  Name me a white artist.  Give me some lyrics poeticizing the oppression of the white man.  Have me not heard of BET? 
The statement that black kids' dress and clothing is influenced by hip-hop and rap more than white kids is not an innapropriate generalization.  It is reality.  And, since I don't see anything wrong with wearing baggy pants and work boots, I fail to see how my observations are inapropriate. 

i more or less agree with you.  it is not the case that everyone who dresses like that is a criminal or a thug.  however, when you look at serious violent crime in this city, particularly the shootings, etc. that occur in or near bars, i am pretty sure that 99.99% of the time it is someone who dresses like that.  (see:  NV, Tao, Skybox, Kabal)  so while 5% (or whatever) of people who dress like that are thugs, i bet almost 100% of people who cause trouble dress like that.  it is sad for the good folks who just happen to dress like that, but really, who cares?  if someone who dresses in a hip hop style wants to go out in the P+L, they have to dress up a little.  nothing wrong with that.

[KCPowercat]

if I put on a red nose and colored wig, I may not be a clown but I surely know what that type of dress projects to those who see me.

also, you assume everyone here is white...interesting.

its the attitude, not the color of skin....this is no different than oak park, legends, zona rosa, etc with their rules....if you don't like them, don't patronize the place.

[LenexatoKCMO]

The statement that black kids' dress and clothing is influenced by hip-hop and rap more than white kids is not an innapropriate generalization.  It is reality.  And, since I don't see anything wrong with wearing baggy pants and work boots, I fail to see how my observations are inapropriate.  

In order for the policy to be about race the prohibited behavior would have to affect more than a fraction of the racial group - are you suggesting that hip hop culture has become so pervasive that no african american individual in this country has a CHOICE whether to participate in its fashions and lifestyle?  Skin Tone and the hip hop lifestyle are NOT mutually dependent.  One is given to you at birth regardless of your wishes - the other is a freely accepted lifestyle CHOICE that anyone can accept or reject at any time they choose.  

[coreyo]

It pisses him off to have to adapt to expected norms, because after all his intent is to be coolly rejecting of societies expectations.

I can understand how being expected to adapt to social norms can piss people off.

My grit normally is that the people who reject them don't know why and have no purpose. If you reject a social norm that says you as a white young male cannot do ballet, I see the reason.  When you reject the societal norm of a clean or semi-clean cut fashion and join another societal norm from a different group of people, you're not sticking it to societal norms, you're trading all that comes with the first for the second including the culture. Is the culture of the first bad from the second?  What's great about the second?

[chingon]

There is the question of what is public and what is private in the PL. As far as I'm concerned it's completely okeh for a private business to outright discriminate, if they want to. If a club wants to ban overweight, aging, white, working class, tattooed, ex-punks with red hair, fuck em anyway. I'd rather not share my money with them. But the sidewalks in front of that club are all of ours. The streets are all of ours. The question is, what portion of the PL is all of ours. I'd say, given the subsidization, a great deal of it. And in public, enforcing a dress code that supercedes accepted legal minimum dress codes, or that is brazenly discriminatory, is unethical.

[KCTigerFan]

Each nightclub is free to implement its own code of conduct and dress code.  The code of conduct and dress code ONLY applies to the Live Block interior when it is actively serving as an over-21 venue.  That is the only time because, in essence, it is a nightclub.

The "Dress Code" seems a bit heavy handed to me.  Look, I don't dress this way and won't be affected by the policy.  However, as any reasonable, rationale person would recognize, I see exactly who will be affected by this policy.  Young, black males.  In general, I think each bar/club should be free to implement its own dress code.  At the same time, I think it is borderline outrageous that a portion of the city would implement a blanket code.  Furthermore, think its outrageous because it is obviously a pretextual policy excluding young black males.  Why?  Because they want it to be safe and friendly.    If I were black, I'd be filing a law suit.    

No bandanas or baggy pants, please
The Cordish Co. has implemented a dress code for events at the Kansas City Live block. It’s a move that has stirred controversy elsewhere.

“We believe it will be a safe and friendly environment,” said Jon Stephens, Power & Light District marketing director. “The live courtyard is built to be an environment that can be controlled. … all events will require wristbands and IDs to purchase alcoholic beverages.”

The dress code will include prohibitions on “bandanas, work boots, and ripped and excessively baggy clothing.” Stephens said the code would be posted prominently. He said Cordish was working with City Councilwoman Melba Curls on an ordinance that would establish citywide standards for implementing dress codes. Curls could not be reached for comment. Cordish ran into criticism and legal challenges when it implemented a dress code at its Fourth Street Live entertainment district in Louisville, Ky. That project opened in 2002, and at the time the dress code restricted patrons from wearing athletic jerseys, sleeveless shirts and hats turned backwards. Critics of the policy said it discriminated against young blacks and poor people. Published reports indicated Cordish dropped much of its dress code policy in 2004.

[KC-wildcat]

When did I assume everybody on here is white?  Further, why is that even relevant?

The clown analogy is perhaps the most ridiculous thing you could have posted in a discussion involving racial profiling.  But, hey, maybe that's the best you can do?  

I think a more apt analogy would be a guy wearing a turbon.

And please elaborate on the attitude comment.  What attitude, does a guy wearing workboots and baggy pants portray to you?  I'm not talking about pants halfway to the ankles.  I'm talking about the average guy walking around with oversized pants and shirt.  Please explain what his attitude is and why he needs to be banned from the Live! Block?  I'm dying to hear this one.  

Finally, for those of you who discard this idea of racial profiling so casually, you would be interested to know that hundreds of lawsuits are filed every year against bars and clubs based on "pretextual" racial profiling or discrimination.  


Justice Department dues Beach club and owner over dress code.  
http://hamptonroads.com/node/333561

"engaged in policies and practices that deny African-American individuals, on account of these individuals' race, the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages and accommodations."

Acting Assistant Attorney General Rena J. Comisac called Kokoamos' codes "a deplorable violation of this nation's civil rights laws."

Allegations of this nature are quite prevalent in the United States.  People simply don't like being denied access to establishments for no other reason than a generally accepted stereotype.  

[KCTigerFan]

A club by my house doesn't allow anyone under 35 in. 

[scooterj]

Why dress codes are appropriate:

[mean]

As a cracka myself, I'm going to buy some work boots and baggy pants and see if they let me in. Live! Late-breaking! Investigative!

[LenexatoKCMO]

Finally, for those of you who discard this idea of racial profiling so casually, you would be interested to know that hundreds of lawsuits are filed every year against bars and clubs based on "pretextual" racial profiling or discrimination.  

Yes but the only ones that have a chance of success are those where there is either outside evidence of an intent to commit racial discrimination or evidence of a pattern of racially discriminatory application.  I have already made it clear that if six months from now, there are a bunch of white kids running around indside the Live block dressed like thugs, yet similarly dressed black kids are gettin turned away than Cordish can and likely will be sued and I would support the plaintiff's cause - that's racial discrimination.  A dress code in and of itself is not.  Hopefully Cordish is sophisticated enough to adequately train their bouncers to ensure that everyone violating the code gets turned away.  

[chrizow]

also, that case cited in the article was a "no dreadlocks" policy which i think more directly implicates black people.  some white people have dreads, but that is a much more specific restriction than "no baggy clothes or workboots."

[voltopt]

Such as "No Mullets"

Just saying.

[KCPowercat]

tigerfan gave pretty good info as to when this policy will go into effect.

this will be a non-issue I am predicting.  I would rather a little preparation now than having to retro all kinds of policies later...

[AllThingsKC]

I've heard a lot of Anti-Corrish, Anti-Power & Light District, and even Anti-Downtown comments on the radio this morning.   :(

One of the qestions being asked is, "Does Corrish have the right to have a dress code since they got tax-payer money for the P&L District?"

[chrizow]

I've heard a lot of Anti-Corrish, Anti-Power & Light Distric, and even Anti-Downtown comments on the radio this morning. 
"

people who call into talk radio are almost always stupid.

[KCPowercat]

z.n.. got subsidies and has dress codes...no outrage was heard.