bahua, nice to meet you and if you could tell me again who the others were . Sorry I had to go after the debate, I would have hung out or something.
A few things.
The debate really did not hit any real issues at all. It was a typical stadium tax debate that has probably taken place a billion times across the country in the past ten years.
They did not bring up a Downtown park or why Jackson County was doing this alone or how the roof would function or anything like that.
I thought the pro renovation guys killed the other guys. If they wanted to really make some sense they would have brought in the 810 crew and talked about building new stadiums in the correct locations for a similar cost to taxpayers and with a much higher return on that investment.
Not just taxes for stadiums are bad and kc doesn’t need major league sports anyway. Bad move.
It was just the same old thing; people that oppose and will continue to oppose anything and everything. These guys would be there doing the same exact thing if we had a downtown park and was funded with only 200 million of tax money and a new retractable roof stadium 75% privately financed. Get a better plan? Yea right. How you can side with them, I have no idea.
It was a waste of time and I came away with the impression that there are a lot more people for this than against it.
I'm not saying to vote yes, I'm saying the no crowd has a week argument that most people are ignoring and if this fails, the no people that wanted a downtown ballpark will have created even more obstacles to overcome as they have not only pissed off the same people that would put a downtown stadium plan together, but pissed off a lot of people that wanted to keep the TSC.
The only thing that bugged me with the yes side was when the dude from 610 Sports said the only people interested in a downtown stadium are those with a vested financial interest which is absurd.
I also came away thinking that KC is just screwed right now and this might be our only real chance to save what we have. I don’t know if the teams are going to leave or not, but I believe the threat is real and I don’t have enough faith in this town and this town’s residents to get on the same page if this fails.
I will decide how I will vote on Tuesday as I walk into my local school to vote, but right now, I’m leaning yes.
So there you go.
Last edited by GRID on Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I just heard on KSHB that Jackson County is expecting record voter turn out is expected for this election. Also, the county has already had a record number of absentee ballots!!!
So, I guess how the vote will turn out is anybody's guess...
i would agree that this will be the highest voter turnout in jackson county history, non presidential. it will be HUGE.
the passion, on both sides, is amazing, it really is, sparks are flying. the yes side is more organized, and i think that is not just financial, i mean, they were ready to go 2 years ago with bistate II, and, really, kept their plans somewhat intact from that one, hunt managed to throw in this ripple with the rolling roof that just complicated it. i am hearing rumblings that a lot of people think the thing would stand a better chance at passing without the roof at all.
from what i am reading based on grids attendance, and from what i am hearing overall, the no side, if this passes, has noone short of themselves to blame for it passing but themselves. if you look at political elections, opposition of anyone, or support of anyone or anything, get organized, make concessions, make alliances, etc. like in a presidential campaign, the dems and repubs allign, some republicans are more liberal then others, some democrats are more conservative then others, some dems support gun rights, some repubs support abortion rights, but, at the end of the day, you allign yourself with your party, and your parties candidate, and get ready for the election. the no side, has failed to do that in all of this, and like grid said up above, even if this fails, there are so many enemies made, on top of what the ownership of the teams and goverment want anyways, there is no way to fix it and get it together for another run. i mean, if you are against this, you do not need millions to fight s.o.s., you need organization. light rail got defeated for less then 20k. you cannot tell me that the no side to this could not organize $20,000, you have the biggest 2 sports microphones in kansas city on 810, you got helling at the star, 3 guys who brilliantly put together an opposition website, you could have worked with 810, kmbc 9, and put together a good opposition plan, registered it, done it legally, the no side could have yard signs, a web site that is not just parody, or a serious website in addition to the parody, air time on all the stations, pieces in the star, sponsored advertising, but, the sheer apathy, laziness, and, disorginaztion did the no side in here, and will in the future if it fails.
this all ties into organizing. the no side, is many camps, the owners are not putting in enough, but, the tsc is fine, lets stay there. we should build downtown. corporate welfare needs to stop and there is no need to support these owners, tsc or downtown. we should stay at tsc and get a better plan. man, there are TOO MANY sides to the no side, which, is fine, but, you get together, make concessions, decide what is bad, what is ok, and get together and make a serious push for no, this part of the no camp agrees to not worry about this til later, this side accepts it in return for not pushing for such and such................it is real easy to organize that, it is about concessions.
but, again, look at the no side. there are a SHITLOAD of people on the no side that are all about the owners are not putting in enough dough, and could care a less if the stadium plan is for the tsc, or for downtown. probably 75% of the no side is all about that. the reamainder is about no corporate welfare, and, like it or not, wanting a downtown stadium is the smallest part of this demographic.
and again, on that no side, your most vocal person, does not live in kcmo, pay taxes in kcmo, work in kcmo, but, will spend his whole day bitching about what kcmo residents should do with their money. that, is a joke. it is about as effective as clay chastain sitting down in tennessee or wherever he moved, telling kansas citians how to get mass transit finally. the guy is an idiot.
and like i read earlier, the no people have pissed so many people off with the various view points, can you imagine them getting together if this fails? sure, they will celebrate, talk shit in this forum, call 810 with jubilation on wednesday morning, but be real, for what? even if the teams do not bolt, which, noone really believes they will, this is just about acknowledging sure, they could, what is next after a vote failure? a plan that gets glass to do 25% instead of 7%? no pavilion for the royals? a deal like new york where the teams pay for it themselves and the city pumps 1b into infrastructure around the parks? be real, there is NO plan on the no side. the dt stadium supporters, all they have managed to do if this fails, is fuck up and prolong the obvius, the teams staying at the truman sports complex.
Last edited by kcdcchef on Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
MU FINISHED THE YEAR RANKED HIGHER IN HOOPS AND FOOTBALL THAN THE KAY U JAYDORKS. UP YOURS KAY U JAYDORK FANS!!!!
kcdcchef wrote:
...
and again, on that no side, your most vocal person, does not live in kcmo, pay taxes in kcmo, work in kcmo, but, will spend his whole day bitching about what kcmo residents should do with their money. that, is a joke. it is about as effective as clay chastain sitting down in tennessee or wherever he moved, telling kansas citians how to get mass transit finally. the guy is an idiot.
...
Who, exactly, are you describing?
Haikus are easy
But sometimes they don't make sense
Refrigerator
I really hate listening to outsiders (i.e. Jocos) telling me what my county should do, KK's influence was instrumental in passage of the downtown arena. He was more passionate than most of the people inside KCMO.
Like Grid said, the opposition also tends to push me towards voting yes (not that I will). It's because I always see the same libertarian/anti-tax/fringe guys speaking at these meetings. No matter what the issue is, if it's a government initiative or involves taxes, they are there to oppose it.
I know this will sound crass, but the opposition needs some faces that more people can identify with instead of the guys in beards and sandals.
That's the problem with all of these no campaigns. You always gets a yes campaign that plays up progress and doing something good for the city, and the no side comes back and starts bitching about money. They'd be better off just keeping their mouth shut. The face we needed was a well known city leader to step up and call BS on this. They obviously all fell in line on this one though, so I'll be surprised if this doesn't pass.
In the 1990 lease KC was held over the barrel by the term "State of the Art" meaning we had to keep TSC up to par with the rest of the stadiums in the league. In the new lease the teams are responsible for all future upkeep and repairs. So this brings me to my question. When the next round of renovations are due will the teams be held to some kind of standard to how much or how little they have to repair, Will they keep the Stadiums "state of the art" or will they do the bare minimum or worst will they do nothing at all?
What do you see for the long term future of TSC? (assuming q1-q2 pass) Do you see glass and hunt just painting the walls and cutting the grass till its time to retire these stadiums or do you expect to see progressive upgrades through out the duration of TSC???
I guess this could be a new topic "What happens after q1-q2 passes?"
They have no credibility and no back bone to speak of whatsoever... consider this, both the KC Star and 610 sports has received over ten of thousands of dollars from the Yes campaign...
Is is a wonder why they are totally against any other option that renovations???
It sickens me that the Star sold out, and more importantly, sold their hearts and souls over for money.. I have cancelled my subscription to the STAR, and am hopeful that someday, somehow, another paper with more credibility can knock them off.. the problem is they have no competition in the metro.
Also, as far as 610 goes... who cares, no one listens to them anyway.. I can't stand them...
Just ask yourselves this, 610 is claiming that 810 "has a vested interest in DT" well, the truth is, Kietz, Monty, and a couple other guys own a Western Auto loft... Kietz owns 1/4 of a freaking loft, and 610 is arguing thats why 810 wants it DT.
Typical, the real question is this, a DT ballpark will not only affect or increase property values for Kietzman, but will help half the members on this forum that live DT... but most importantly it will help the entire region.
What's so wrong with having a kick ass DT stadium??? Would'nt that do more for MORE people ??? I mean, who's getting any benefit from the TSC?? a Taco bell???
They have no credibility and no back bone to speak of whatsoever... consider this, both the KC Star and 610 sports has received over ten of thousands of dollars from the Yes campaign...
Is is a wonder why they are totally against any other option that renovations???
It sickens me that the Star sold out, and more importantly, sold their hearts and souls over for money.. I have cancelled my subscription to the STAR, and am hopeful that someday, somehow, another paper with more credibility can knock them off.. the problem is they have no competition in the metro.
Also, as far as 610 goes... who cares, no one listens to them anyway.. I can't stand them...
Just ask yourselves this, 610 is claiming that 810 "has a vested interest in DT" well, the truth is, Kietz, Monty, and a couple other guys own a Western Auto loft... Kietz owns 1/4 of a freaking loft, and 610 is arguing thats why 810 wants it DT.
Typical, the real question is this, a DT ballpark will not only affect or increase property values for Kietzman, but will help half the members on this forum that live DT... but most importantly it will help the entire region.
What's so wrong with having a kick ass DT stadium??? Would'nt that do more for MORE people ??? I mean, who's getting any benefit from the TSC?? a Taco bell???
I listen to 610, specifically, DA's morning show. He's a bit more objective than his afternoon counterparts.
A dt stadium is a no brainer. Why 610 and the KU Star would further justify their position by buiding up 810's apparent self interest is ridiculous.
Everyone on this site should be praising ees of 810 for their desire to invest in dt. Isn't that what so many on this site bang their monkey over?
One State. One Spirit. One Mizzou. 05.22.2011 RIP Rusty, Harli and Hayze
They have no credibility and no back bone to speak of whatsoever... consider this, both the KC Star and 610 sports has received over ten of thousands of dollars from the Yes campaign...
which is different from the tens of thousands of dollars 810 received on the arena how exactly??
the ku star, just so you know, wrote pieces WAY before s.o.s. was even dreamed up saying the renovation of kauffman and arrowhead was the right idea.
MU FINISHED THE YEAR RANKED HIGHER IN HOOPS AND FOOTBALL THAN THE KAY U JAYDORKS. UP YOURS KAY U JAYDORK FANS!!!!
GRID wrote:
KK is doing more for the yes crowd then the no crowd, he really is.
i agree completely. he may have had a good point initially, but the horse he's been kicking is no longer even organic matter.
his rhetoric sounds like a lawnmower, with no regard for anything else - just a steady, plaintative hum. its too bad - he could have helped the no vote by providing real analysis and alternatives, not whining about how backwards and stupid and dumb and insert bad adjective here the jackson county government is. he doesn't live or work here, which helps his arguement seem less informed and more emotional...
"I never quarrel, sir; but I do fight, sir; and when I fight, sir, a funeral follows, sir." -senator thomas hart benton
voltopt wrote:
i agree completely. he may have had a good point initially, but the horse he's been kicking is no longer even organic matter.
his rhetoric sounds like a lawnmower, with no regard for anything else - just a steady, plaintative hum. its too bad - he could have helped the no vote by providing real analysis and alternatives, not whining about how backwards and stupid and dumb and insert bad adjective here the jackson county government is. he doesn't live or work here, which helps his arguement seem less informed and more emotional...
He used to work in JackCo when 810's studio was located off Sterling Rd.
I think Kietzman is the very epitome of the average "KC Sports Fan" that grew up in the KC Metro area.....he grew up a KCMO sports team fan in the burbs on the KS side of the state line, went to school at an in state university in KS, worked for the KC "Missouri" media, bills himself as a hometown KC guy, moved his offices to KS, still claims Missouri teams as "his" hometown teams.
FUBAR
One State. One Spirit. One Mizzou. 05.22.2011 RIP Rusty, Harli and Hayze
StL_Dan wrote:
I think Kietzman is the very epitome of the average "KC Sports Fan" that grew up in the KC Metro area.....he grew up a KCMO sports team fan in the burbs on the KS side of the state line, went to school at an in state university in KS, worked for the KC "Missouri" media, bills himself as a hometown KC guy, moved his offices to KS, still claims Missouri teams as "his" hometown teams.
Scandalous! He should be crucified for those crimes. How dare that Kansas devil have pride in his metro, promoting its downtown and what not! Its obviously just a put on - he's from Kansas - what more do you need. Run him out of town!
. Sorry I had to go after the debate, I would have hung out or something.
