Questions Fail - Downtown Baseball?

[kcdcchef]

I'm not dreaming of either of those scenarios.

Rather, I'm dreaming of a day when downtown KC is fully complemented with a top notch arena, baseball stadium, arts culture and entertainment district to complement it's already growing dt population.

But, I realize many just want to keep on driving to that big open ashphalt jungle, mindlessly wander in to and out of the Graveyard and never experience anything different than the interior of their box seat and the driver's seat of their vehicle.

Wow...what an exciting scenario!

you fail to acknowledge there are top notch stadiums in those asphalt areas.

[KCDevin]

He forgets we are one of the smallest baseball markets that rakes in arena sized crowds for a team full of losers. You aren't going to get crowds of 20k-40k per game in Downtown just because it's Downtown. Your going to get the same amount of people, 16k-20k per game except for special games...
Location isn't going to change jack...

[kcdcchef]

He forgets we are one of the smallest baseball markets that rakes in arena sized crowds for a team full of losers. You aren't going to get crowds of 20k-40k per game in Downtown just because it's Downtown. Your going to get the same amount of people, 16k-20k per game except for special games...
Location isn't going to change jack...

nope. not one damn thing.

[GRID]

Dan, you are just pissed because you live in KC now and are watching the re-birth of StL from 250 miles away

[kcdcchef]

Dan, you are just pissed because you live in KC now and are watching the re-birth of StL from 250 miles away

rebirth. yeah. a stadium is rebirth. sure it is. tell the people here in pitt where i live that 2 of them is rebirth, they built 2 and are mad as hell that no new growth was spurred.

[SouthKC1985]

Lots of hot heads about this I see..... Anyway, I'm voting yes and don't plan on getting into an arguement over it so count me in on the yes side. I just didn't find a legitimate reason to vote no. Downtown baseball would be all grand and fine and what St. Louis is doing is nice building new stadiums with their skylines in the outfield but right now, it's just not in the cards for Kansas City. I honestly believe that Kansas City came up with the idea of a downtown stadium when St. Louis came up with theirs a few years ago. St. Louis is not Kansas City and Kansas City isn't St. Louis. St. Louis is going to be St. Louis and Kansas City is going to be Kansas City and are both different and unique in their own regards. We don't have to necessarily copy off of other cities do what every other city is doing. Be creative and unique.

[GRID]

1985, I understand where you are coming from, but disagree with you on KC simply following StL.  If we were following StL, we would have built something better than MAX and we would not have added onto Kemper rather than building a new arena, the metro area would fun our zoo and science center, or river front would be used and our highways would be modern.

StL has always had a downtown stadium, I think KC is trying to follow, but they are following every city out there except these two:

edit:, actually, they are following these two:

[StL_Dan]

Dan, you are just pissed because you live in KC now and are watching the re-birth of StL from 250 miles away

Exactomundo.

[lock+load]

lock&load, you know that is bullshit... We aren't going to get the freaking Super Bowl if the Chiefs move. We won't get the All Star Game if we build a new stadium. Don't you see the damn message? They offer us an All-Star Game OVER all the other cities who DID build Downtown Stadiums...

Devin, every city that builds a new ballpark gets and All-star game.  It is a pretty simple equation.

[KCMax]

If the no's win... I will cuss and rant, and will leave this site PERMENTANTLY, unless the teams decide to stay in Missouri, stay in Jackson County, and stay in Kansas City. If they move anywhere else. You can say goodbye to me. And I couldn't give a crap what your opinion of me is. I will voice my opinion just like you voice yours. I have been on this site longer than many people posting in this thread now, and I can tell you one thing, there are only a few members who have kept my respect since I joined. And those that were here before I joined know how much more productive and respectful this forum used to be.

[lock+load]

I will cuss and rant, and will leave this site PERMENTANTLY, unless the teams decide to stay in Missouri, stay in Jackson County, and stay in Kansas City. If they move anywhere else. You can say goodbye to me.

Even if you are an ardent supporter of the renovation plan, this opportunity has to at least make you question your YES vote.  This may be a once in a lifetime opportunity

[bahua]

I am absolutely terrified of this thing passing. It will set a terrible precedent for sports franchise blackmail. A billion dollars... For what? What return will we get? An ailing baseball team that we don't even like? A successful NFL team that doesn't even need our help? It will cost a fraction of the the extortionate amount they're asking, to make the needed renovations.

We have until December 31st, 2007(not 2006), to come up with a plan for funding that will see that the county lives up to its end of the contract. That's plenty of time to come up with a plan that doesn't ruin the county.

I have no problem with the county paying for everything. The county owns the facility. It makes sense. I'd prefer it if the owners weren't even allowed into the proceedings. If we want to expand our own property, we can decide to do so. It's not for the Royals or Chiefs organizations to tell us what we should do with our property, and our money. If they want expansions that will increase their profits, they can invest in them, themselves. That's what businesses do.

Please, for the sake of sanity, and for the sake of Kansas City, vote No on April 4th.

[warwickland]

is it april 4th yet? 

[kcdcchef]

I am absolutely terrified of this thing passing. It will set a terrible precedent for sports franchise blackmail. A billion dollars... For what? What return will we get? An ailing baseball team that we don't even like? A successful NFL team that doesn't even need our help? It will cost a fraction of the the extortionate amount they're asking, to make the needed renovations.

We have until December 31st, 2007(not 2006), to come up with a plan for funding that will see that the county lives up to its end of the contract. That's plenty of time to come up with a plan that doesn't ruin the county.

I have no problem with the county paying for everything. The county owns the facility. It makes sense. I'd prefer it if the owners weren't even allowed into the proceedings. If we want to expand our own property, we can decide to do so. It's not for the Royals or Chiefs organizations to tell us what we should do with our property, and our money. If they want expansions that will increase their profits, they can invest in them, themselves. That's what businesses do.

Please, for the sake of sanity, and for the sake of Kansas City, vote No on April 4th.

i myself am terrofied it will fail. can you imagine this city, of kansas city, or the metropolitan region as a whole, getting together and getting something done if it fails? if it fails, because the owners are not putting in enough money, because you downtown supporters want to be the first group in the world to tear down top 10 stadiums, just because you want a mock up of pnc in kc, or for whatever reason, do you see this region or this city getting together and doing it right??

we do not even have a straight answer from the teams, the county, or anyone involved whether or not the lease is defaulted or not. does that not frighten any of you? you vote no for your various principles on the issue, then what? you think the teams, or the county, is going to be in a rush to get back to the table to hammer it out by august or november? once it is defaulted, now, later, next year, whenever, once the defaulting happens, there is no way to force either team to accept the band aid, or whatever is done. so, to vote no, based on how much money the teams are putting in, is dumb. there are 20 taxpayer stadiums out there that are free to the teams, 20. it is not the worst deal. out of the remaining 34 stadiums, only 5 were built 100% by their owners. out of those 5, there are 3 where the city spent double what the team did on the area that the stadium went into, and one, foxboro, where people are pissed off at how much the state put into the aging decrepid area. to vote no just on the principe the owners are not contributing enough, compare apples to apples, how many cities our size can we compare to? minnesotta is still in the process of working it out, portland / charlotte are still in the process of getting established as major league cities, so, to compare us to larger cities, or teams with richer owners, makes NO sense. compare us to st louis because we are similar in size? yeah, sure, fair fight, they are getting some serious dough from anheuser busch ( naming rights ) and live in a city that ponies up for the development around it. can you imagine, in kansas city missouri, asking city residents, and people nearby, to invest the kind of money into downtown that they are there? sure, it is owner financed on the stadium, but the people in that region are footing some hefty bills on civic redevelopment, can you imagine an area like kc, with a downtown stadium on the ballot, agreeing to vote yes on shit like that?? listen to the callers to am radio, the letters to the star, the homes along ward parkway, the businesses with the sos signs in their windows, the region does NOT have the support for a dt stadium, because there are WAY too many people like me who still love kauffman and arrowhead.

if we want to say it is bad business for the teams playing in OUR stadiums to dictate where they play, then, there are 38 other markets in pro sports doing it wrong. i guess we should be visionaries and blaze a new trail on this one, and risk losing our teams??

if we lose these teams over this BULLSHIT, that would bring the tally to 5 professional sports teams lost. do you really think any of the 4 leagues, will be in any hurry to get us a new team? the nfl or mlb, will shy away from this market big time. it cost cleveland 600m to get the nfl back, what makes you think any of the big 4 will be in a hurry to get us sports back if we lose a 4th and 5th team?

for the sake of everyone in the region, and kansas citians at heart that live elsewhere, vote yes.

[warwickland]

[GRID]

i myself am terrofied it will fail. can you imagine this city, of kansas city, or the metropolitan region as a whole, getting together and getting something done if it fails? if it fails, because the owners are not putting in enough money, because you downtown supporters want to be the first group in the world to tear down top 10 stadiums, just because you want a mock up of pnc in kc, or for whatever reason, do you see this region or this city getting together and doing it right??

we do not even have a straight answer from the teams, the county, or anyone involved whether or not the lease is defaulted or not. does that not frighten any of you? you vote no for your various principles on the issue, then what? you think the teams, or the county, is going to be in a rush to get back to the table to hammer it out by august or november? once it is defaulted, now, later, next year, whenever, once the defaulting happens, there is no way to force either team to accept the band aid, or whatever is done. so, to vote no, based on how much money the teams are putting in, is dumb. there are 20 taxpayer stadiums out there that are free to the teams, 20. it is not the worst deal. out of the remaining 34 stadiums, only 5 were built 100% by their owners. out of those 5, there are 3 where the city spent double what the team did on the area that the stadium went into, and one, foxboro, where people are pissed off at how much the state put into the aging decrepid area. to vote no just on the principe the owners are not contributing enough, compare apples to apples, how many cities our size can we compare to? minnesotta is still in the process of working it out, portland / charlotte are still in the process of getting established as major league cities, so, to compare us to larger cities, or teams with richer owners, makes NO sense. compare us to st louis because we are similar in size? yeah, sure, fair fight, they are getting some serious dough from anheuser busch ( naming rights ) and live in a city that ponies up for the development around it. can you imagine, in kansas city missouri, asking city residents, and people nearby, to invest the kind of money into downtown that they are there? sure, it is owner financed on the stadium, but the people in that region are footing some hefty bills on civic redevelopment, can you imagine an area like kc, with a downtown stadium on the ballot, agreeing to vote yes on shit like that?? listen to the callers to am radio, the letters to the star, the homes along ward parkway, the businesses with the sos signs in their windows, the region does NOT have the support for a dt stadium, because there are WAY too many people like me who still love kauffman and arrowhead.

if we want to say it is bad business for the teams playing in OUR stadiums to dictate where they play, then, there are 38 other markets in pro sports doing it wrong. i guess we should be visionaries and blaze a new trail on this one, and risk losing our teams??

if we lose these teams over this BULLSHIT, that would bring the tally to 5 professional sports teams lost. do you really think any of the 4 leagues, will be in any hurry to get us a new team? the nfl or mlb, will shy away from this market big time. it cost cleveland 600m to get the nfl back, what makes you think any of the big 4 will be in a hurry to get us sports back if we lose a 4th and 5th team?

for the sake of everyone in the region, and kansas citians at heart that live elsewhere, vote yes.

good post chef.

[GRID]

It's amazing how easy it is to see both sides of this issue.

I can only imagine how the random voter will be able to deal with this.

[AllThingsKC]

C H E F !

Great Post.  You captured my feelings perfectly.

[AllThingsKC]

It's amazing how easy it is to see both sides of this issue.

I can only imagine how the random voter will be able to deal with this.

I know what you mean GRID.  Up until yesterday, I was an undecided voter.  I know my signature says Vote YES and stuff, but I might turn around and vote NO.  I know where Chef is coming from, but I also understand where lock&load is coming from.  Both (believe it or not) make great points.

I am just scared of losing either one of the teams, and it's hard to pass up a Super Bowl and an All Star Game.  But, by voting YES, I feel like I am stabbing downtown.  So, I still might vote NO.   :?

[kcdcchef]

  But, by voting YES, I feel like I am stabbing downtown.  So, I still might vote NO.   :?

howso? 4b of development going on already, plus the east village is getting off the ground. dt is coming around without this.