www.SaveOurOwners.com

[kcdcchef]

You're wrong. They're not smearing anybody. Smearing somebody is telling plausible lies about them to turn public opinion against them. Smearing is not, however, telling completely and obviously fake stories. There is a huge chasm between satire and smearing.

And what you're characterizing as a flaw, I think is the beauty of the internet. You don't have to be--and shouldn't have to be--a big organized campaign to get your voice heard. Why is someone's opinion more valid just because they have the money? It isn't, and you know it. This is not a bad thing! It is perhaps the greatest thing ever!

the greatest thing ever? man, you have to get out more, really.

[mean]

Nice try, but if you don't think the ability to freely distribute information to millions upon millions of people instantly, without having to have huge financial backing and massive political or corporate infrastructure, is perhaps the greatest achievement of humankind, then...what is?

[kcdcchef]

Nice try, but if you don't think the ability to freely distribute information to millions upon millions of people instantly, without having to have huge financial backing and massive political or corporate infrastructure, is perhaps the greatest achievement of humankind, then...what is?

who said anything about a huge financial backing? did the people who fought, and won, against light rail, have huge financial backing? fuck no! they did it by being organized, and fighting it, RUNNING A CAMPAIGN. they did not feature a mockery of a website with mkb eating with buddha, or cleaver killing baby trollies or something..........they did it how you are supposed to.

running a campaign, or really getting behind something, does not require any of the things you mention, it just requires really wanting to do something.

as much as we all bash him on here, one of the greatest people in kc to ever make his efforts come to fruition was clay chastain, with no funding, and no backing, the man always managed to get what he wanted on the ballot.

of course, getting thousands of signatures, and working hard on your proposals with hours and hours of efforts, well, that is just silly, when, you can spend 3 hours on a computer making up false shit, that, some poor schmucks will probably believe.

[mean]

Again, nice try, but running a REAL campaign it requires lots of things, money being a big part of it. Why would the stadium people spend $1.6 million if it wasn't necessary?

And Clay Chastain is a perfect example! He tried to fight the machine, and now look at him. He can't even live here anymore! He was completely smeared by the media and politicians. Why would anyone who wanted to express a dissenting opinion NOT hide from the machine that smeared Clay Chastain?

You're just so wrong it's not even funny, man. You can't stand people expressing a different opinion, and it eats you up that they might win. I'm sorry you think that opinions are only valid if you do a bunch of government paperwork, but that's a retarded metric for judging something's validity. Their POV is just as valid as the rich people's, period, and having to file with the government to be allowed to express your opinion is total bullshit.

[KCDevin]

If living Downtown makes your opinion more valid than any others about Downtown, then that is more BS than saying that those who run the city are more correct than those who don't know as much aout it.

[Thrillcekr]

Then they aren't really very true to conservative ideals, are they?

Anyway, those dudes clearly aren't running a campaign. They're making fun of a campaign. Huge difference, I think. You can dislike and disagree with them all you want, everyone has their reasons for feeling how they feel. The only thing I have a problem with is wishing harm upon them for exercising their rights. That just really, really bothers me. I certainly am voting NO but I would never wish harm upon the YES people, cause in the end we're all just Kansas Citians. Nobody should ever be punished for doing what they think is right, and I'm sorry you feel like they should, when what they think is right is different from you.

Also, you seem to want to characterize these guys as somehow taking the easy way out, but I think you're being naive. I see these guys as being on the cutting edge of a political Free Speech revolution, which even now is being debated in Congress, and, I hope, in which we will learn that blogs are mostly exempt from idiotic campaign law seemingly designed to stifle unfunded grassroots opposition. Why on earth would a couple regular Joes want to expose themselves to the wrath of a super-funded political machine? Are you insane? They would be crushed. It seems to me that only by remaining anonymous can they keep private investigators from digging through their trash and calling their employers and all sorts of awful, but perfectly legal, harrassment and scare tactics.

So, Save Our Owners, if you're reading this, STAY ANONYMOUS!!! You're opposing The Man, and there's a billion dollars on the line. They will do anything they can to get you to shut up. Don't shut up!

I think there was a misunderstanding.  I was referring to this part of Max's statement.  "Its quite clear that the group behind it is terrorists who hate America!"  Clearly he was joking but that's how Bush's campaign was ran.  Try to make as many false statements as possible about the opponent and his military service record to redirect the public's attention while completely avoiding the real issues.  It seemed to work well so I was implying that maybe the owners should run such a campaign to distract voters by blowing smoke up their ass about the folks behind the Save Our Owners website.  I'd vote "No" if I could but since I can't I'll just stand by and watch the fireworks.

[kcdcchef]

Again, nice try, but running a REAL campaign it requires lots of things, money being a big part of it. Why would the stadium people spend $1.6 million if it wasn't necessary?

And Clay Chastain is a perfect example! He tried to fight the machine, and now look at him. He can't even live here anymore! He was completely smeared by the media and politicians. Why would anyone who wanted to express a dissenting opinion NOT hide from the machine that smeared Clay Chastain?

You're just so wrong it's not even funny, man. You can't stand people expressing a different opinion, and it eats you up that they might win. I'm sorry you think that opinions are only valid if you do a bunch of government paperwork, but that's a retarded metric for judging something's validity. Their POV is just as valid as the rich people's, period, and having to file with the government to be allowed to express your opinion is total bullshit.

clay chastain got stuff on the ballot, and made some noise, and like the man or not, he brought an assload of attention to issues that deserved them, all this is doing, is rallying the troops that WERE ALREAY ON YOUR SIDE!!!! it is getting noone new.

if you do not support doing goverment paperwork to do things the right way mean, go ahead and withhold doing your taxes this april, i mean, hell, that is just meaningless paperwork.

i really do not care who is on my side or not. if this thing fails april 4th, which, it might, i will just wait for the next go around, because, the ownership and county has made that crystal clear, it will stay at tsc. and if it passes, unlike the childish rhetoric i can count on from you and the other dt ballpark supporters, i will just be happy that the royals are going to get a renovated stadium like they deserve, along with the chiefs.

the chiefs, and the royals are spending 2m because they want to win, and then some. but, if your opposition wanted to defeat them, it would not require 1.6m, it would not even require $100,000. why? they defeated light rail for a $106,000 campaign, and the light rail supporters spent $1.5m, so, to defeat it, is easy, it just requires effort, which, you clearly support not giving any of, effort, which, is what saveourowners is founded on, that, and an effort ran by 3 computer users trying to smear the names of two business men who have done more for kansas city then they EVER could in their lives.

btw, i hope this passes for a new reason......................................this forum is no longer about kc development. it is a complete and total forum civil war now over the stadiums, this whole site is consumed over this shit, we do not even remotely talk about kc anymore.

[lock+load]

btw, i hope this passes for a new reason......................................this forum is no longer about kc development. it is a complete and total forum civil war now over the stadiums, this whole site is consumed over this shit, we do not even remotely talk about kc anymore.

It was very peaceful the week you were gone.

[LenexatoKCMO]

For what its worth, I had three different people at the office tell me I needed to check out the saveourowners site at work early this week.  My girlfriend forwarded the link to me because it was all over her office.  This was all before the Star articles.  I think it is fair to say that the site is reaching many thousands now.  There is also not a single person in the office who is still planning to vote yes.  Keep up the good work boys!

[mean]

the chiefs, and the royals are spending 2m because they want to win, and then some. but, if your opposition wanted to defeat them, it would not require 1.6m, it would not even require $100,000. why? they defeated light rail for a $106,000 campaign, and the light rail supporters spent $1.5m, so, to defeat it, is easy, it just requires effort, which, you clearly support not giving any of, effort, which, is what saveourowners is founded on, that, and an effort ran by 3 computer users trying to smear the names of two business men who have done more for kansas city then they EVER could in their lives.

You're still focusing on irrelevant crap. Forget money, forget effort, forget that stuff. It doesn't matter. The core is, everyone has the right to speak their mind. Glorioso is trying to take that right away, and you're rooting for him to be able to do it.

Ever hear of a guy named Benjamin Franklin? He wrote contraversial political satire under various assumed names. Now, 250 years after all his hard work to help found a supposedly free country, we've regressed to the point where people think the right of free speech doesn't apply when people say things they don't like.

It's painfully sad to see how far we've fallen. If I wanted to live in a society where you could only speak with approval from the government, I'd move to Saudi Arabia.

[TheNorthlander]

Ever hear of a guy named Benjamin Franklin? He wrote contraversial political satire under various assumed names. Now, 250 years after all his hard work to help found a supposedly free country, we've regressed to the point where people think the right of free speech doesn't apply when people say things they don't like.

Ah yes, Benjamin Franklin, another "nameless, faceless coward"
======================================================

In 1722 a series of letters appeared in the New-England Courant written by a middle-aged widow named 'Silence Dogood'. The letters poked fun at various aspects of life in colonial America, such as the drunkenness of locals and the fashion for hoop petticoats.

Silence was particularly fond of ridiculing Harvard. She complained that it had been ruined by corruption and elitism, and that most of its students learned nothing there except how to be conceited.

Silence also wrote that she had once been married to a minister with whom she had lived for seven years before he had died, leaving her with three children. She coyly admitted that she didn't enjoy the life of a widow and could be easily persuaded to marry again.

The readers of the Courant thought she was a charming woman. So charming, in fact, that a few of the male readers themselves wrote in, upon learning that she was single, and offered to marry her.

Unfortunately for her would-be suitors, Silence Dogood didn't exist. She was the invention of a sixteen year-old boy named Benjamin Franklin whose older brother, James, was a printer in Boston. It is not known whether James was privy to the true identity of Silence Dogood, or whether, like the rest of Boston, he was fooled by his younger brother.

This was the first of Franklin's many hoaxes.

References/Further Reading:
Fedler, Fred. Media Hoaxes. Iowa State University Press. 1989. 5-6.
The Silence Dogood Letters, HistoryCarper.com.


Main Page  Comments  Search Site  Back to Ben Franklin Hoaxes 


Text copyright © 2002 Alex Boese

[kcdcchef]

You're still focusing on irrelevant crap. Forget money, forget effort, forget that stuff. It doesn't matter. The core is, everyone has the right to speak their mind. Glorioso is trying to take that right away, and you're rooting for him to be able to do it.

Ever hear of a guy named Benjamin Franklin? He wrote contraversial political satire under various assumed names. Now, 250 years after all his hard work to help found a supposedly free country, we've regressed to the point where people think the right of free speech doesn't apply when people say things they don't like.

It's painfully sad to see how far we've fallen. If I wanted to live in a society where you could only speak with approval from the government, I'd move to Saudi Arabia.

really? benjamin franklin, sat in his basement smearing prominent business men who did a lot for their communities? intresting. i love how you are now rewriting american history to support your position.

. There is also not a single person in the office who is still planning to vote yes. Keep up the good work boys!

for every person like you who says this stuff, there are 4 other callers to 810 and 610 that "know" a bunch of people voting yes.

these attempts we make to say we know the outcome, are futile at best.

It was very peaceful the week you were gone.

why don't you leave for a week, we could do without someone calling me names.

[lock+load]

really? benjamin franklin, sat in his basement smearing prominent business men who did a lot for their communities? intresting. i love how you are now rewriting american history to support your position.

You're going to compare the opposition to a stadium renovation vote to that that led to the American Revolution?  To you realize how crazy you look?

[kcdcchef]

You're going to compare the opposition to a stadium renovation vote to that that led to the American Revolution?  To you realize how crazy you look?

dummy.  read means comments, he is the one who compared the shit to benjamin franklin, not me.

do you even read all the comments, or just mine so you can come start shit with me each day anew?? here, let me help you.........

Ever hear of a guy named Benjamin Franklin?  

jesus, would it kill you just once to read all the comments before you come after me 2 guns firing?

[bahua]

So, to summarize:

lock&load, mean, Max, and several others vehemently oppose the terms of question 1, and have given a number of good reasons not to throw away hundreds of millions of dollars

chef, im2kull, and devin vehemently support it, despite reason, and will not change their minds. Fortunately, only chef(who ironically, doesn't even live here) is the only one who will be able to vote for it.

Someone has put up a funny website that pokes fun at the absurdity of the yes camp, and with no other recourse, the yes folks cry foul, because there's no target to shoot down.

Sum it up pretty well?

[mean]

really? benjamin franklin, sat in his basement smearing prominent business men who did a lot for their communities? intresting. i love how you are now rewriting american history to support your position.

Um, yeah. He sat in his printing shop satirically "smearing" prominent businessmen and politicians who, some would say, did a lot for their communities. And he did it anonymously. Read the history books, chump. Of course I'm not implying that what the saveourowners guys are doing is on the same scale of historic importance, but that isn't relevant. Rights are rights, speech is speech, and it's disgusting that you're cheering on the anti-rights and anti-speech people.

[kcdcchef]

Um, yeah. He sat in his printing shop satirically "smearing" prominent businessmen and politicians who, some would say, did a lot for their communities. And he did it anonymously. Read the history books, chump. Of course I'm not implying that what the saveourowners guys are doing is on the same scale of historic importance, but that isn't relevant. Rights are rights, speech is speech, and it's disgusting that you're cheering on the anti-rights and anti-speech people.

there you go, name calling again. dont worry, you will get away with it.

ummmm, there is no recourse in american history that said ben franklin sat in obscurity trashing local businessmen. he did talk shit on the english, however, hence the times he was in , the american revolution, that did tend to be in vogue at the time.

i am not cheering on anti rights and anti speech. i have made my point clear, they should take the time to comply with laws on the matter, and we will find out real soon if they are, by the way, and think it is pathetic to counter the hard work of a well thought out campaign, and well ran campaign, with smear tactics, which, is all they are doing.

they are behind the implication that david glass, and lamar hunt, have done NOTHING for kansas city, and are just greedy bastards that should be ran out of kansas city.

[lock+load]

there you go, name calling again. dont worry, you will get away with it.

ummmm, there is no recourse in american history that said ben franklin sat in obscurity trashing local businessmen. he did talk shit on the english, however, hence the times he was in , the american revolution, that did tend to be in vogue at the time.

i am not cheering on anti rights and anti speech. i have made my point clear, they should take the time to comply with laws on the matter, and we will find out real soon if they are, by the way, and think it is pathetic to counter the hard work of a well thought out campaign, and well ran campaign, with smear tactics, which, is all they are doing.

they are behind the implication that david glass, and lamar hunt, have done NOTHING for kansas city, and are just greedy bastards that should be ran out of kansas city.

They have complied with the law.  There is no provision in the current law regarding political opinion stated on a independent website.  They are using smear tactits?  And if they were to identify themselves, what do you thing the response would be?  The YES side wants to know who they are so they can smear them.  IT IS SATIRE, I don't know what it will take to get that through your incredibly think skull.  They are using it as a means to generate attention for the opposition side.  No one believes what they are saying is true, so stop acting like it is.

[mean]

What name did I call you? Chump? Yes, I should "get away" with that, that's not even a real insult. Stop trying to be the martyr.

Would it matter if I dug up Franklin's essays and printed them here? No. So I won't bother. But if you ever get a hankering, I suggest reading The First American.

Anyway, if you get all that from their site, about wanting to run the owners out of town, then fine, everyone's entitled to be wrong; but they have never said anything that led me to that conclusion. Hell, if you've read the Pitch article, they said they don't even oppose taxes for the teams, just one this big with this much public subsidy. So, it's a free country, think what you want, but at least know that you're wrong.

[mean]

No one believes what they are saying is true, so stop acting like it is.

Too true. If anyone believes Lamar Hunt is a starving child, or that David Glass takes the bus, they are well and truly fools of the highest degree.