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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:56 am
by chaglang
Everything’s up to date in Wichita.

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:38 am
by Steve52
Everyone knows everything there is to know about Kansas City except how to enjoy it. Very interesting. enriching, and intellectually stimulating and enlightening approach.

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:48 am
by flyingember
ToDactivist wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:42 am
MizzouMadeKC wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:02 pm
Yes. Royals Stadium in the 1970s and 1980s was gorgeous. The remodeled K is a desperate attempt to make baseball more appealing while increasing revenue. Downtown doesn’t need the Royals, but the Royals might need Downtown.
Agreed on that comment...not sure anyone would attend a CO Rockies game if in Aurora. No, I'm positive no one would.
I wouldn't be so sure of that

Atlanta moved their stadium into the suburbs for the 2017 season. It's only three years, but their attendence has hardly change if any.

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:26 am
by TrolliKC
Way to go Wichita Baby Cakes

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:51 pm
by longviewmo
There's decent bike infrastructure right at the stadium so I think they might be fairly successful. There's a signed bike route immediately west, and to the east both sides of the river are multi-use paths. They already do a bike valet for riverfest every year which is directly across the river.

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:56 am
by Rabble
Just finished Paul Goldberger's new book, Ballpark. A nice history of baseball parks, from the wood structures of 19th century, through the concrete donuts of my childhood to the retros of today, and how they related to the American city. Three takeaways:
1. Goldberger is an excellent writer of both architecture and city design. His 40 year old book about Manhattan, The City Observed, is still the best book written about NYC buildings and neighborhoods. His website says an updated version coming out soon!
2. HOK, now Populous, originally wanted to pluck down a retread of Royal stadium, in downtown Baltimore, much like they did in the south side of Chicago with the new Comiskey. It was a bunch of non-architects that forced them to study the existing city, study what makes a great ballpark, and helped them design Camden Yards. I'm sure Populous is grateful for that help.
3. I've always hoped KC would avoid a downtown ballpark. The ones I've seen give their cities a George F. Babbitt-amusement park quality. But Goldberger points out that the best, Baltimore along with Cleveland, Pittsburgh and San Francisco, improve their cities by how they integrate into existing neighborhoods and their mass transit. I hope Populous designs us something on this level, but for them to do that, I believe they need a more inspired location than the east village.

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:14 pm
by TheLastGentleman
Rabble wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:56 am
Just finished Paul Goldberger's new book, Ballpark. A nice history of baseball parks, from the wood structures of 19th century, through the concrete donuts of my childhood to the retros of today, and how they related to the American city. Three takeaways:
1. Goldberger is an excellent writer of both architecture and city design. His 40 year old book about Manhattan, The City Observed, is still the best book written about NYC buildings and neighborhoods. His website says an updated version coming out soon!
2. HOK, now Populous, originally wanted to pluck down a retread of Royal stadium, in downtown Baltimore, much like they did in the south side of Chicago with the new Comiskey. It was a bunch of non-architects that forced them to study the existing city, study what makes a great ballpark, and helped them design Camden Yards. I'm sure Populous is grateful for that help.
3. I've always hoped KC would avoid a downtown ballpark. The ones I've seen give their cities a George F. Babbitt-amusement park quality. But Goldberger points out that the best, Baltimore along with Cleveland, Pittsburgh and San Francisco, improve their cities by how they integrate into existing neighborhoods and their mass transit. I hope Populous designs us something on this level, but for them to do that, I believe they need a more inspired location than the east village.
I have quoted this post over in the book recommendations thread.

I'm a fan of The City Observed and glad a new version is in the works. I'm still skeptical of a downtown stadium in KC, but maybe Goldberger can change my mind on things. I agree that, if a stadium happens downtown, there are better places than the East Village area. Perhaps this city-owned site in Westside?

Image

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:48 pm
by Rabble
That is close to one of rokhok's suggestions last week. A long way from the streetcar. How about replacing the Midtown Market Place with a ballpark? Get rid of two suburban boxes and a sea of parking. Has the Glover plan served it's purpose?

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:12 pm
by TheLastGentleman
Rabble wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:48 pm
How about replacing the Midtown Market Place with a ballpark? Get rid of two suburban boxes and a sea of parking. Has the Glover plan served it's purpose?
That’s a much better plan. Perhaps that could be a good opportunity to dismantle the KCPT tower.

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:04 pm
by WoodDraw
The problem is that the sea of parking will just expand and probably stop future development around the area.

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:24 pm
by alejandro46
A baseball field would be very disruptive to the neighborhoods near Midtown Marketplace. If Hyde Park Neighborhood Association get peeved about some multi-family residential with low parking, how would they feel about a Major Legaue baseball park, and all the fans, noise, and wayward homeruns?

I think the only realistic option is the East Village, and I prefer to leave the K as-is and run transit to it. But we will see what the new ownership thinks. I think there is minimal appetite for more tax breaks for a new stadium, especially whatever the Royals get the Chiefs will want something similar.

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:24 pm
by FangKC
TheLastGentleman wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:14 pm
I'm a fan of The City Observed and glad a new version is in the works. I'm still skeptical of a downtown stadium in KC, but maybe Goldberger can change my mind on things. I agree that, if a stadium happens downtown, there are better places than the East Village area. Perhaps this city-owned site in Westside?

Image
There are two underground water storage reservoirs at the Turkey Creek Pumping Station abpve that send water to residents in South Kansas City.

If a stadium is built there, the reservoirs and pumping station need to be relocated and rebuilt somewhere else.

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:33 am
by flyingember
TheLastGentleman wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:14 pm


I'm a fan of The City Observed and glad a new version is in the works. I'm still skeptical of a downtown stadium in KC, but maybe Goldberger can change my mind on things. I agree that, if a stadium happens downtown, there are better places than the East Village area. Perhaps this city-owned site in Westside?
If you like tearing out affordable housing, sure.

The grassy spot is maybe 1/3 the land needed for a stadium

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:29 am
by shinatoo
Telling you guys. This is the best spot.

1. Repurposes underused and difficult parkland.
2. Close to public transportation.
3. Unprecedented city views.
4. Doesn't eat up prime development land for a seasonal use.
5. Solid NE orientation.

Image

And it's already a ballfield!

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:29 am
by ToDactivist
shinatoo wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:29 am
Telling you guys. This is the best spot.

1. Repurposes underused and difficult parkland.
2. Close to public transportation.
3. Unprecedented city views.
4. Doesn't eat up prime development land for a seasonal use.
5. Solid NE orientation.

Image

And it's already a ballfield!
well its the loc that former city mgr hinted at....and as long as you can leverage IRS/Fed Reserve/Hallmark parking garages + 27th street stop for streetcar then it probably works. Maybe walkable to other amenities, not really and kind of an island in that context.

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:52 pm
by shinatoo
Just doing some quick calc and it's about a mile to everything by foot. Boulevard Brewery, Jack Stack, East 31st, Linwood Plaza. About the same walk as Kauffman to Adams Mark.

It would probably do more for Midtown than Downtown. Certainly would do a lot to bring them together. Kind of a hub point for Crossroads, Crown Center, Midtown and Westside.

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:09 pm
by alejandro46
well its the loc that former city mgr hinted at....and as long as you can leverage IRS/Fed Reserve/Hallmark parking garages + 27th street stop for streetcar then it probably works. Maybe walkable to other amenities, not really and kind of an island in that context.
I could see that working if we were OK re-locating the Pioneer Mother statute there for a parking garage. That southern portion bordering 29th seems to be the only feasible other parcel for new structured parking. Kessler Rd. would be re-located to align directly into a new roundabout at the end of Liberty Memorial Mall and likely widened for the increased traffic.

I have visited the liberty memorial before and seen lots of people using those ball fields for summer rec leagues.

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:19 pm
by ToDactivist
alejandro46 wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:09 pm
well its the loc that former city mgr hinted at....and as long as you can leverage IRS/Fed Reserve/Hallmark parking garages + 27th street stop for streetcar then it probably works. Maybe walkable to other amenities, not really and kind of an island in that context.
I could see that working if we were OK re-locating the Pioneer Mother statute there for a parking garage. That southern portion bordering 29th seems to be the only feasible other parcel for new structured parking. Kessler Rd. would be re-located to align directly into a new roundabout at the end of Liberty Memorial Mall and likely widened for the increased traffic.

I have visited the liberty memorial before and seen lots of people using those ball fields for summer rec leagues.
perhaps try to get away from thinking there always has to be new parking garages regardless of where this ship lands. Use what is readily available. Denver didnt build ANY new garages for the ballpark and only had 1-2 smallish surface lots. Rest was re-purposed from nearby offices, civic, etc. Here you already have massive garages at Crown Center + IRS + Fed Reserve + Union Station + bushwhacking.

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:36 pm
by flyingember
ToDactivist wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:19 pm

perhaps try to get away from thinking there always has to be new parking garages regardless of where this ship lands. Use what is readily available. Denver didnt build ANY new garages for the ballpark and only had 1-2 smallish surface lots. Rest was re-purposed from nearby offices, civic, etc. Here you already have massive garages at Crown Center + IRS + Fed Reserve + Union Station + bushwhacking.
Are you seriously saying that the IRS and Federal Reserve would give up parking for a baseball game? That's laughable. The IRS garage is below their office space, they'll never open it to the public and both those garages have the raised angled barriers blocking access without a card.

As for the rest, you need to think about the 2pm games. When those garages are effectively full. Children's Mercy leases space in Crown Center, parking is at such a premium to the east.

And the Union Station garage is heavily used by the feds as well for the post office. It might be 1/3 reserved parking.

Sure, could find some spots in existing garages but any stadium is going to be a large walking zone from on street parking more than anything with private businesses building garages nearby.

It's dramatically better to not think about where people will park and to locate the stadium in a way no one cares. And remember the streetcar isn't enough to support that. At every 12 a train comes by five times an hour. To move 10,000 people would take 12 hours. Parking and walking will be the most common thing so it will end up where there's lots of under utilized parking around.

Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:02 pm
by shinatoo
There are about 7 afternoon weekday games a year. Attendance is typically between 5-10k for those games. Any uptick in attendance would be from people already working downtown. Non issue.

I doubt the IRS would open their garages, however, since those buildings are unoccupied during baseball season it wouldn't be out of the question. All the other lots are doable.