Downtown Baseball Stadium

[beautyfromashes]

Will people from the suburbs go to a stadium that is near Paseo and Troost? Serious question.

I think they will. I just think they will demand parking garages and will leave immediately after the game. I think you'll get very little carry over development. I don't think you'll get suburbanites moving to live in condo developments there like you would in the Crossroads or anything close enough to be associated with Sprint Center or P&L. You would get a totally redone Negro Leagues museum tied into the stadium which could be even more of a national treasure similar in stature to the WWI museum. You might break some of the stigma around the East Side and see improvements in those neighborhoods. I worry it would be labeled as gentrification though and I don't think it would do anything to heal racial division that we have in this city.

[AlkaliAxel]

Will people from the suburbs go to a stadium that is near Paseo and Troost? Serious question.

I just think they will demand parking garages and will leave immediately after the game. I think you'll get very little carry over development. I don't think you'll get suburbanites moving to live in condo developments there like you would in the Crossroads or anything close enough to be associated with Sprint Center or P&L.

Well then this spot isn't it. Again, the whole point of a downtown stadium is to have the opposite of that^. We have already that. It's called TSC.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

A new stadium in the East Village completes downtown. A stadium with fountains and our beautiful backdrop will be one of the most iconic views of Kansas City seen by millions on TV a year.

If that’s your goal, EV makes no sense.. it’d face 71 HWY, and the interchange for 35,29, &70, with maybe a view of the Bond bridge in the distance and the bluff that 29 hugs. Even if the stadium faces directly North the best view you’d get is HWY 9 interchange from 470, and the HOA bridge. What a tremendous view we’d have; highway infrastructure, how Kansas City of you. I too think an urban stadium needs a downtown view as one of its main design elements, that’s why 18th and Vine is the best bet.

[GRID]

A new stadium in the East Village completes downtown. A stadium with fountains and our beautiful backdrop will be one of the most iconic views of Kansas City seen by millions on TV a year.

If that’s your goal, EV makes no sense.. it’d face 71 HWY, and the interchange for 35,29, &70, with maybe a view of the Bond bridge in the distance and the bluff that 29 hugs. Even if the stadium faces directly North the best view you’d get is HWY 9 interchange from 470, and the HOA bridge. What a tremendous view we’d have; highway infrastructure, how Kansas City of you. I too think an urban stadium needs a downtown view as one of its main design elements, that’s why 18th and Vine is the best bet.

Exactly. A stadium in EV would have really silly views. The best thing you might be able to see from the upper deck is the Bond Bridge. And the downtown skyline from the east loop is not impressive anyway. Downtown KC looks really small from that angle.

However, a stadium in Vine District could face north where much of the stadium would have that nice view of the skyline. It would be even better if the stadium could be oriented more to the Northwest. You would be much closer to Crown Center so from the concourses, you would have dramatic views of the Downtown/Crossroads/Crown Center skylines.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Exactly. A stadium in EV would have really silly views. The best thing you might be able to see from the upper deck is the Bond Bridge. And the downtown skyline from the east loop is not impressive anyway. Downtown KC looks really small from that angle.

However, a stadium in Vine District could face north where much of the stadium would have that nice view of the skyline. It would be even better if the stadium could be oriented more to the Northwest. You would be much closer to Crown Center so from the concourses, you would have dramatic views of the Downtown/Crossroads/Crown Center skylines.

Not to mention that’s an angle of DT rarely seen, the most common being 35 approach and the scout view, I’m thinking this angle would make for a good change of pace, and kind of reshape the projected image of the skyline, as well as give us a completely new angle. I’m pro stadium move if it goes to 18th & Vine, anti if it goes EV

[beautyfromashes]

Can always count on people in Kansas City to determine their project locations based on the skyline view instead of walkability or access to public transportation.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

Can always count on people in Kansas City to determine their project locations based on the skyline view instead of walkability or access to public transportation.

We currently have neither, both options presented DT sacrifice either or…

[GRID]

What public transportation? And don't tell me the streetcar. What the hell is the difference between EV and Vine when it comes to public transit? That silly little bitty transit center on 12th? Come on.

Trust me, if KC had a real transit system, it would be a big part of where I would locate a stadium.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

What public transportation? And don't tell me the streetcar. What the hell is the difference between EV and Vine when it comes to public transit? That silly little bitty transit center on 12th? Come on.

Trust me, if KC had a real transit system, it would be a big part of where I would locate a stadium.

I was going to mention, our transit is a near non-factor in this stadium location, and it’s all of 6 blocks apart. One area is actually in need of an anchor tie in like this (18th&V) whereas one has the ability to be a dramatic massing and activation of a currently dead edge, that a stadium won’t bring (EV). Might as well get a good view as well.

[GRID]

What public transportation? And don't tell me the streetcar. What the hell is the difference between EV and Vine when it comes to public transit? That silly little bitty transit center on 12th? Come on.

Trust me, if KC had a real transit system, it would be a big part of where I would locate a stadium.

I was going to mention, our transit is a near non-factor in this stadium location, and it’s all of 6 blocks apart. One area is actually in need of an anchor tie in like this (18th&V) whereas one has the ability to be a dramatic massing and activation of a currently dead edge, that a stadium won’t bring (EV). Might as well get a good view as well.

Correct. If KC were to ever have a true transit system and a transit center, that transit center would likely be union station or someplace in the crossroads. Have you seen the plans for the new Charlotte uptown transit center? Their current bus transit center is already massive compared to anything in KC, but they want to make it easier to connect to light rail and streetcar lines. If KC ever builds something like that (50 years out probably), it would not be on the east side of the loop.

[AlkaliAxel]

What public transportation? And don't tell me the streetcar. What the hell is the difference between EV and Vine when it comes to public transit? That silly little bitty transit center on 12th? Come on.

Trust me, if KC had a real transit system, it would be a big part of where I would locate a stadium.

I was going to mention, our transit is a near non-factor in this stadium location, and it’s all of 6 blocks apart. One area is actually in need of an anchor tie in like this (18th&V) whereas one has the ability to be a dramatic massing and activation of a currently dead edge, that a stadium won’t bring (EV). Might as well get a good view as well.

They have renderings where they have buildings built beyond the outfield wall in East Village. There's actually plenty of room beyond left field.

MLB stadiums have to face mostly east always, ftr.


And GRID, "in 50 years when they build a transit center east of the loop" it'll already be time for a new stadium, so when we get there, sure we can discuss that spot.

[GRID]

What public transportation? And don't tell me the streetcar. What the hell is the difference between EV and Vine when it comes to public transit? That silly little bitty transit center on 12th? Come on.

Trust me, if KC had a real transit system, it would be a big part of where I would locate a stadium.

I was going to mention, our transit is a near non-factor in this stadium location, and it’s all of 6 blocks apart. One area is actually in need of an anchor tie in like this (18th&V) whereas one has the ability to be a dramatic massing and activation of a currently dead edge, that a stadium won’t bring (EV). Might as well get a good view as well.

They have renderings where they have buildings built beyond the outfield wall in East Village. There's actually plenty of room beyond left field.

MLB stadiums have to face mostly east always, ftr.


And GRID, "in 50 years when they build a transit center east of the loop" it'll already be time for a new stadium, so when we get there, sure we can discuss that spot.

That's kind of my point. KC probably won't have a transit system that is actually functional and usable for stadium events no matter where it's at, but the center of downtown is becoming the crossroads district, not anything inside the loop.

[AlkaliAxel]

I was going to mention, our transit is a near non-factor in this stadium location, and it’s all of 6 blocks apart. One area is actually in need of an anchor tie in like this (18th&V) whereas one has the ability to be a dramatic massing and activation of a currently dead edge, that a stadium won’t bring (EV). Might as well get a good view as well.

They have renderings where they have buildings built beyond the outfield wall in East Village. There's actually plenty of room beyond left field.

MLB stadiums have to face mostly east always, ftr.


And GRID, "in 50 years when they build a transit center east of the loop" it'll already be time for a new stadium, so when we get there, sure we can discuss that spot.

That's kind of my point. KC probably won't have a transit system that is actually functional and usable for stadium events no matter where it's at, but the center of downtown is becoming the crossroads district, not anything inside the loop.

I think the transit system is coming along fine. What we *needed* was a way to get people in the urban core the ability to get anywhere they wanted in it without a car. Soon this should be shifted to all of KCMO too, but we're right on track. We don't need to have some massive suburban rail when there are other pressing issues..

KC is one of the least amount of time in traffic out of major cities- because we overbuilt highways. Until that ever stops being smooth, we don't need some giant suburban rail connection. I actually think the best way to help reverse that trend and growth towards KCMO is were the only ones with the streetcar & rail.

[GRID]

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the tram line. I'm saying it will not be very functional for large stadium events. It's totally fine for what it does and that's move relatively small amounts of people for short trips in urban areas in a way that people enjoy.

But as I have said a thousand times, It will be nearly useless before and after baseball games especially when downtown has more than one major event. It's just not that type of transit and the few people it will move will likely be stuck on the trams in the same traffic going to and from the games.

The best thing that might come from a downtown stadium is justification to take transit in KC to the next level. Getting the Tram into a dedicated right of way and building more tram and light rail lines in the near future. And in that case, I think a stadium in the Vine area would likely be more accessible when KC does build more transit, but either location is about the same when it comes to that because nobody knows where a LRT line might go.

But that's why it's more important to build another tram on Troost or LRT on Truman than it is to build something on State Ave or Metcalf Ave. Central KC needs more transit. Regional transit can be handled with a good bus system which can also eventually feed into a central transit center, something a bit more comprehensive, robust and central than the current "main" transit center on 13th or whatever. That would likely be near Union Station.

[Anthony_Hugo98]

What public transportation? And don't tell me the streetcar. What the hell is the difference between EV and Vine when it comes to public transit? That silly little bitty transit center on 12th? Come on.

Trust me, if KC had a real transit system, it would be a big part of where I would locate a stadium.

I was going to mention, our transit is a near non-factor in this stadium location, and it’s all of 6 blocks apart. One area is actually in need of an anchor tie in like this (18th&V) whereas one has the ability to be a dramatic massing and activation of a currently dead edge, that a stadium won’t bring (EV). Might as well get a good view as well.

They have renderings where they have buildings built beyond the outfield wall in East Village. There's actually plenty of room beyond left field.

MLB stadiums have to face mostly east always, ftr.


And GRID, "in 50 years when they build a transit center east of the loop" it'll already be time for a new stadium, so when we get there, sure we can discuss that spot.

It isn’t out of the realm of possibility that we could face it directly North, from the 18th&V area this would provide an exceptional skyline view, pay homage to historical precedent of baseball in KC, help to bridge a divide of development between crossroads and east side, provide further activation for NLBM. It seems like an (and excuse the pun) home run location to me, I don’t know about anyone else though..
https://tht.fangraphs.com/wp-content/up ... ation2.jpg

[earthling]

I generally agree streetcar/tram/horizontal elevator cannot handle huge events alone but along with overflow streetcar buses for major events, it's still enough of a player for a portion of attendees that it should be a factor, absolutely should be a factor in site selection criteria. Not a key factor but a notable enough one to put into spreadsheet.

That said, adding everything up I think Vine area has its place if the stadium is nearly entirely privately funded with low risk TIF/Bonds for City. Am changing my tune from 'Go Big or Don't Bother' to 'Go Private or Don't Bother'. A passing vote probably won't happen no matter where moved, too much of a tax burden in these times along with already heavy tax burden for many in addition to the anti-baseball-downtown crowd. Just ain't not gonna happen if it comes to a vote, so find a way to 'Go Private or Don't Bother', which will mean many private investors involved and yes, I think that might be able to happen based on some rumbling vibes underneath our feet.

If this goes to vote and doesn't pass, it sends a message to MLB that KC may not be interested in keeping Royals when other faster growing markets are aching for a team. And other messages that will be sent that I won't get into. Going private w/out vote also doesn't give Chiefs leverage for asking more from City. So many reasons this should not go to vote.

[AlkaliAxel]

I’m just spitballing here, but I have a hunch what may kill Vine stadium plans is literally just the stigma surrounding Troost and Paseo from a primarily JoCo fan base. I guarantee you some consultant is gonna say “Hey Mr. Sherman…Troost will be tooooo scary, your fans won’t come!”

[mean]

Good lord, at least AlkaliAxel can communicate like a reasonable adult, who is this other troll?

[Anthony_Hugo98]

A new stadium in the East Village completes downtown. A stadium with fountains and our beautiful backdrop will be one of the most iconic views of Kansas City seen by millions on TV a year.

If that’s your goal, EV makes no sense.. it’d face 71 HWY, and the interchange for 35,29, &70, with maybe a view of the Bond bridge in the distance and the bluff that 29 hugs. Even if the stadium faces directly North the best view you’d get is HWY 9 interchange from 470, and the HOA bridge. What a tremendous view we’d have; highway infrastructure, how Kansas City of you. I too think an urban stadium needs a downtown view as one of its main design elements, that’s why 18th and Vine is the best bet.

LOL No it wouldnt you're now just making shit up to make your shitty fantasy of a baseball stadium at the violent money pit.

You’re really disproving my points above by *checks notes* saying nothing to refute any of my above..

[kas1]

Out of curiosity, if the stadium is put at 18th & Vine are you guys expecting a lot of people to walk there from Crown Center and the loop after they get off work at their 9-5 job? Are you expecting people to be willing to park in the garages at those places and then walk to the game? The distance (1 to 1.5 miles) seems to be right at the point where it's inconvenient yet not unmanageable. If the stadium had stayed there all along then people would probably just suck it up and deal with it just because that's just how it's always been done. But if you put a new stadium in there today I'd expect a fair amount of grumbling, but I don't have a good sense for how strong that grumbling would be or how that would translate into behavior patterns. I've always just assumed that a new stadium at 18th & Vine would be accompanied by a lot more new parking than other locations.