Downtown Baseball Stadium

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
earthling
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by earthling »

FangKC wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:29 am
There is some benefit to having people living in apartments--and employers providing jobs--in a mixed-use neighborhood of housing, retail, restaurants, and offices. The Plaza is active without a stadium or arena.

Neighborhoods can be active and function without the need for people to come there from distant parts of the city.
^Yeah, urban neighborhoods reach a major milestone when active w/out events. Events help but the downtown target should be 18/7 activity w/out depending on events and it's progressing well toward that. Downtown needs more retail though and Plaza needs more residential within.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by KCPowercat »

A downtown park could also be the tipping point to getting retailers finally take a leap downtown that would be a huge plus for residents.

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normalthings
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by normalthings »

How would a downtown stadium tip retail? I can see it leading to more restaurants but I'm not sure how retail is connected.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by KCPowercat »

If a retailer knows they have 18-25k people 81 days a year guaranteed to walk by their place and then add in our normal downtown population? I mean I wouldn't expect a shopping mall to pop up but I'd think it would help pique the interest of a retailer.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by normalthings »

KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:52 pm
If a retailer knows they have 18-25k people 81 days a year guaranteed to walk by their place and then add in our normal downtown population? I mean I wouldn't expect a shopping mall to pop up but I'd think it would help pique the interest of a retailer.
Do people go shopping before a game outside of eating or drinking? St. Louis don’t have much retail around their stadium and what is there is all F&B and maybe 1-2 sports merch stores.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by flyingember »

normalthings wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:02 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:52 pm
If a retailer knows they have 18-25k people 81 days a year guaranteed to walk by their place and then add in our normal downtown population? I mean I wouldn't expect a shopping mall to pop up but I'd think it would help pique the interest of a retailer.
Do people go shopping before a game outside of eating or drinking? St. Louis don’t have much retail around their stadium and what is there is all F&B and maybe 1-2 sports merch stores.
It's probably less to do with demand to shop and more that you can't support a business off ~85 days of the year. The team stores are always packed.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by KCPowercat »

I'd hope we could aim a little higher than what St. Louis downtown has accomplished. Again I'm not trying to say there is going to be a full blown shopping trip along with going to the game but promised foot traffic could help push a retailer that is already interested with our residential population.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by AlkaliAxel »

KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:20 pm
I'd hope we could aim a little higher than what St. Louis downtown has accomplished. Again I'm not trying to say there is going to be a full blown shopping trip along with going to the game but promised foot traffic could help push a retailer that is already interested with our residential population.
^Agree with this. I wish we’d stop comparing to STL stadium, because their downtown is nowhere as good and it has different effects. Pretty much same for Cleveland. I think we’d have a better setup since our downtown is already good without a stadium there.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by flyingember »

AlkaliAxel wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:15 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:20 pm
I'd hope we could aim a little higher than what St. Louis downtown has accomplished. Again I'm not trying to say there is going to be a full blown shopping trip along with going to the game but promised foot traffic could help push a retailer that is already interested with our residential population.
^Agree with this. I wish we’d stop comparing to STL stadium, because their downtown is nowhere as good and it has different effects. Pretty much same for Cleveland. I think we’d have a better setup since our downtown is already good without a stadium there.
The St. Louis downtown draws more than 2 million people annually. You can reach both destinations by public transit.

It just goes to show how complex an environment a downtown is to make something work.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by shinatoo »

AlkaliAxel wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:15 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:20 pm
I'd hope we could aim a little higher than what St. Louis downtown has accomplished. Again I'm not trying to say there is going to be a full blown shopping trip along with going to the game but promised foot traffic could help push a retailer that is already interested with our residential population.
^Agree with this. I wish we’d stop comparing to STL stadium, because their downtown is nowhere as good and it has different effects. Pretty much same for Cleveland. I think we’d have a better setup since our downtown is already good without a stadium there.
Cleveland's Downtown and baseball experience is light years ahead of St.louis. We should hope for something like that.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Goonies »

KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:59 am
A downtown park could also be the tipping point to getting retailers finally take a leap downtown that would be a huge plus for residents.
So we could finally get that Target that's desperately been needed for downtown.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Goonies »

shinatoo wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:29 am
AlkaliAxel wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:15 pm
KCPowercat wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:20 pm
I'd hope we could aim a little higher than what St. Louis downtown has accomplished. Again I'm not trying to say there is going to be a full blown shopping trip along with going to the game but promised foot traffic could help push a retailer that is already interested with our residential population.
^Agree with this. I wish we’d stop comparing to STL stadium, because their downtown is nowhere as good and it has different effects. Pretty much same for Cleveland. I think we’d have a better setup since our downtown is already good without a stadium there.
Cleveland's Downtown and baseball experience is light years ahead of St.louis. We should hope for something like that.
How so? I've never been to Cleveland but IMO the Cardinals game day experience is much better than the Royals and I'm a Royals fan.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Highlander »

WoodDraw wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:28 pm
My biggest concern is they'll surround it with parking lots. And those lots will be so hard to develop if not done at the same time.
A new downtown stadium is not going to occupy enough space to fill in all the vacant space in East Village, so yes, it will be partially surrounded by surface lots in any scenario. Not sure that's such a horrible problem to have. Even if that is the best outcome we can hope for, the end result is still a downtown stadium and considerably fewer vacant lots in East Village.

The surface parking does not have to be permanent. It will provide an obvious place for parking initially for people not used to going downtown and are unaware of the large downtown parking garages. I don't think the boost in value of those surface lots from parking receipts will preclude later development of the space. Minute Maid park went into an area in Houston replete with surface lots and, while some of those lots do remain, many have been redeveloped into apartments, offices and restaurants/bars.

Looking at google maps, there is a lot of parking in the vicinity of East Village and a lot close by that could be made available after hours (e.g. the large garage at 11th and Oak and surface lots dedicated to federal employees - which will most likely never be redeveloped). Also, business on the east side of I-70 could make their lots available and make some cash in the process. The entire blocks between 9th and 11th and I70 and Harrison on the east side of I70 are almost vacant as well.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by shinatoo »

Goonies wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:06 pm
shinatoo wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:29 am
AlkaliAxel wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:15 pm


^Agree with this. I wish we’d stop comparing to STL stadium, because their downtown is nowhere as good and it has different effects. Pretty much same for Cleveland. I think we’d have a better setup since our downtown is already good without a stadium there.
Cleveland's Downtown and baseball experience is light years ahead of St.louis. We should hope for something like that.
How so? I've never been to Cleveland but IMO the Cardinals game day experience is much better than the Royals and I'm a Royals fan.
I've been to STl, Denver and Clevland (plus a bunch of other non DT stadiums like Angles, LA, Houston, Arlington, Milwaukee, ATL). Clevland is well integrated into the Downtown environment. Plenty of active bars and restaurants, lots of condos. I walked maybe 5 blocks from where I parked and the drinking and dining options were innumerable. Plus there is a huge casino directly adjacent to the stadium. It's also on the edge of DT with highways on the south and west sides making traffic a non-issue. Just a great experience.

Generally the same type of location as STL but a much higher level of activity.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Goonies »

shinatoo wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:40 pm
Goonies wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:06 pm
shinatoo wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:29 am


Cleveland's Downtown and baseball experience is light years ahead of St.louis. We should hope for something like that.
How so? I've never been to Cleveland but IMO the Cardinals game day experience is much better than the Royals and I'm a Royals fan.
I've been to STl, Denver and Clevland (plus a bunch of other non DT stadiums like Angles, LA, Houston, Arlington, Milwaukee, ATL). Clevland is well integrated into the Downtown environment. Plenty of active bars and restaurants, lots of condos. I walked maybe 5 blocks from where I parked and the drinking and dining options were innumerable. Plus there is a huge casino directly adjacent to the stadium. It's also on the edge of DT with highways on the south and west sides making traffic a non-issue. Just a great experience.

Generally the same type of location as STL but a much higher level of activity.
This sounds amazing. I hope that's what we get with our new stadium.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by alejandro46 »

Goonies wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:06 am
shinatoo wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:40 pm
Goonies wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:06 pm


How so? I've never been to Cleveland but IMO the Cardinals game day experience is much better than the Royals and I'm a Royals fan.
I've been to STl, Denver and Clevland (plus a bunch of other non DT stadiums like Angles, LA, Houston, Arlington, Milwaukee, ATL). Clevland is well integrated into the Downtown environment. Plenty of active bars and restaurants, lots of condos. I walked maybe 5 blocks from where I parked and the drinking and dining options were innumerable. Plus there is a huge casino directly adjacent to the stadium. It's also on the edge of DT with highways on the south and west sides making traffic a non-issue. Just a great experience.

Generally the same type of location as STL but a much higher level of activity.
This sounds amazing. I hope that's what we get with our new stadium.
I would say the problem with Progressive field is just that the experience felt somewhat generic and forgettable. Given, I was much younger when I visited but I recall the stadium concessions being not good.

For best ballparks and we should aspire to is PNC Park in Pittsburgh. Beautiful views, location is amazing, memorable design and atmosphere, great concessions and all around experience. The city is also beautiful, very clean and a nice blend of historic and modern architecture with a lot of activities to do.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by AlkaliAxel »

PNC is good. I think the gold standard is AT&T park in San Francisco. I think the goal should also be just not to build a super generic stadium. Hopefully that shouldn’t be too much a problem with the architecture firms we have here.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by WoodDraw »

AlkaliAxel wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:40 am
PNC is good. I think the gold standard is AT&T park in San Francisco. I think the goal should also be just not to build a super generic stadium. Hopefully that shouldn’t be too much a problem with the architecture firms we have here.
I think this is a good point, and the architecture firms will treat it as a huge project. You don't want an embarrassment in your own city.

For me it's just what development surrounds it. You don't want to compete with p&l, but it can't be garages and parking lots that never get developed because everyone is happy with the parking revenue.

I'll oppose any downtown stadium that doesn't include zoning and development. If not, leave it where it is

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by AlkaliAxel »

WoodDraw wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:40 pm
AlkaliAxel wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:40 am
PNC is good. I think the gold standard is AT&T park in San Francisco. I think the goal should also be just not to build a super generic stadium. Hopefully that shouldn’t be too much a problem with the architecture firms we have here.
I think this is a good point, and the architecture firms will treat it as a huge project. You don't want an embarrassment in your own city.

For me it's just what development surrounds it. You don't want to compete with p&l, but it can't be garages and parking lots that never get developed because everyone is happy with the parking revenue.

I'll oppose any downtown stadium that doesn't include zoning and development. If not, leave it where it is
I think this is the opportunity where you get more stores and restaurants. P&L has restaurants, but other than that inside the loop has hardly any. I think getting some next to the stadium would be perfect, and it would spread out and balance the eating and shopping in the loop better than just all concentrated at P&L.

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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by WoodDraw »

AlkaliAxel wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:46 pm
WoodDraw wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:40 pm
AlkaliAxel wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:40 am
PNC is good. I think the gold standard is AT&T park in San Francisco. I think the goal should also be just not to build a super generic stadium. Hopefully that shouldn’t be too much a problem with the architecture firms we have here.
I think this is a good point, and the architecture firms will treat it as a huge project. You don't want an embarrassment in your own city.

For me it's just what development surrounds it. You don't want to compete with p&l, but it can't be garages and parking lots that never get developed because everyone is happy with the parking revenue.

I'll oppose any downtown stadium that doesn't include zoning and development. If not, leave it where it is
I think this is the opportunity where you get more stores and restaurants. P&L has restaurants, but other than that inside the loop has hardly any. I think getting some next to the stadium would be perfect, and it would spread out and balance the eating and shopping in the loop better than just all concentrated at P&L.
The problem with retail there is again parking. The only thing that will work is say that no surrounding block can be surface parking, every garage has to have at first level retail, and the royals can't operate any surface parkings lots as part of any incentive package

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