Downtown Baseball Stadium

[AlkaliAxel]

I have always wondered why the airport was put ridiculously far away from most people in the metro.

[normalthings]

I have always wondered why the airport was put ridiculously far away from most people in the metro.

Richards was the first choice but became a very important AF base. MCI was where TWA already have an overhaul base and KCMO hoped/thought that area would be what JoCo is today

[FangKC]

The Northland will eventually catch up.

[KCPowercat]

According to this more official poll, Grid was on it. 50/50 if all private. Of course this is with no sexy pictures or plan to present. Just the "concept"

https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/edit ... 17618.html

[AlkaliAxel]

This is all that will matter in the end
https://twitter.com/cdotharrison/status ... 77603?s=21

“Do you want it to go to Kansas or not?” That’s why they’ll get it passed. Not to mention they’ll have years to campaign and assuage the issues people have.

Furthermore, the fans are all bought into these silly arguments about how downtown is an evil place to put the stadium. They’re just flat out wrong. Once they have it, they’ll realize it’s actually alot better. For example, when they were trying to pass Obamacare in 2010 it was getting only 35% support during the Senate vote because GOP would drum up all these insane scenarios that would happen if it became law. They plowed forward, passed it anyway for people’s own good, and now it’s at 60% approval or higher. This is not the first time a scenario like this has occurred and been flipped.

[KCPowercat]

They should use Kansas as a bargaining chip. No way Sherman goes there though.

[GRID]

I see another major renovation of the sports complex in the coming years. Probably an extension of the existing reno tax. And probably 1/2 to 3/4 billion in renovations for both stadiums combined.

I still think a downtown baseball stadium is a pipe dream for KC. Just way too many obstacles (money, support etc) and political/emotional issues tied to the sports complex. If KC could pull it off it would be awesome, but KC is just not a town that is going to pull off what needs to be done to build a downtown stadium. I just don't see how the city and state comes up with a billion plus dollars for a downtown park and even the bare minimal of infrastructure improvements needed. And then another billion for the Chiefs at the same time. I literally can not even comprehend something like that happening in a town that can't even keep its highest profile downtown streets well maintained.

Also, it will be a sad day for the Chiefs if they replace Arrowhead. It may have to happen someday, but they will not have that bowl with a new stadium. It will be all broken up like all the new stadiums are for ADA accessibility reasons. Also the TSC is the perfect place for a stadium, even if the Chiefs decide to build new, why in the world would they ever leave the TSC? There is zero reason to leave that location.

If they do renovate, it would be nice if they would clean up the area and spend some money improving the general area of the TSC though.

I can see KS making a major play for the Chiefs out at Village West, that will at least get something done in MO hopefully. If the pro sport teams ever move to KS, then I would have little interest in the city anymore. Sporting KC is bad enough. What a stupid location.

A lot of what you say makes sense. If the Royals get a new stadium I seriously doubt the Chiefs would be satisfied with just a rehab for their stadium. This area has treated these teams as equals in the past and both teams have treated TSC as if they are a package deal.
A billion for a new football stadium? The amount would be north of that amount, possibly 50% more than for a new baseball stadium.
Stupid location for the soccer location I definitely disagree. When you consider Johnson County being a hotbed for soccer and the stadium being just off 435 it is a good location for that market plus for many areas north of the river. And the restaurants may not be fancy but there is a wide selection of them nearby. The urbanist may not like the location but the suburbanist does. And that sentiment would also apply to TSC.

I think it's fine for much of JoCo, especially northern and western JoCo, but much of JoCo is pretty far from Village West, especially the highly populated areas south of 435. Village West is really far from many of the MO side suburbs though. I understand that most people think KC is Downtown + Johnson County, but that's not the case.

Lee's Summit, Blue Springs/Grain Valley alone is the size of Overland Park. Liberty, Cass County etc are pretty far too. People make the drive to Village West, but I think the team would actually be even more popular if they were downtown. You might lose a few people that like the stadium being part of a suburban (semi rural) area, but it would gain a lot more I think if it were downtown.

Kauffman is a totally different situation.

I will say it again. I still think the downtown stadium is an absolute pipe dream. There is almost no possible scenario where KC gets a proper MLB caliber downtown stadium.

There are tons of obstacles more than almost any other city deals with. But the biggest obstacle of all?

The vast majority of the fans and those that might vote for it "DON'T WANT IT".

I mean KCI, sprint center etc always seemed to be an uphill battle, but there was always a pretty solid 40% that were passionately for those projects even on social media etc. There is almost no support at all to move the stadium downtown. It has to be less than 30%.

Even if there was some miraculous way to get the public on board, KC just can't afford a project like that, especially when combined with the Chiefs. There is just no way KC comes up with 1.5-2 billion dollars needed. Especially for something most people don't want.

I'm just being a realist.

KC will renovate the sports complex.

There is a much bigger problem in downtown KC right now than building a stadium. Getting companies back downtown. If KC can't get more jobs downtown soon, I still say this residential boom will be short lived or will simply see much less demand in the coming years.

Again, only so many people are going to pay for the urban experience only to commute to a suburban job. Downtown KC will eventually hit that threshold. A stadium won't change that.

[chaglang]

When the teams are good enough, the TSC seems to work for a lot of people in the metro.

No Maserati for us? Poll says KC would pass on downtown baseball even if Royals paid
https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/edit ... 17618.html

Remington poll.

[normalthings]

Again, only so many people are going to pay for the urban experience only to commute to a suburban job. Downtown KC will eventually hit that threshold. A stadium won't change that.

Yes and OP building a walkable downtown will allow people to get an urban esque living experience near their office and without other KCMO downsides.

[GRID]

Again, only so many people are going to pay for the urban experience only to commute to a suburban job. Downtown KC will eventually hit that threshold. A stadium won't change that.

Yes and OP building a walkable downtown will allow people to get an urban esque living experience near their office and without other KCMO downsides.

I can see downtown Overland Park taking off and going to the next tier of urban development (taller, more dense, more expensive etc) in the coming years. I don't thin it will ever really compete for those that really want a true urban experience, but it will compete with downtown for sure.

If they ever build a real BRT line or something down Metcalf so people can take transit to all the office parks, look out. Downtown OP and all of Metcalf will likely take off of with high density residential which will hurt downtown.

[earthling]

I agree there's a low chance for downtown stadium passing tax payer support but disagree about lack of jobs downtown would slow down downtown residential momentum. The MO side of metro is now gaining Pro Biz office jobs higher than ever, higher than US average. The KS side of metro has been sliding. Most of MO's is in the core or short commute, should help downtown momentum even if not directly downtown. And we don't know yet how WFH hybrid plays out long term, which would be a paradigm shift for office use if it sticks long term. That conversation is for another thread.

Anyone specifically seeking best urban living in KC will choose approx along a _free_ fare streetcar line, wherever it goes. Not downtown Overland Park.

[AlkaliAxel]

They should use Kansas as a bargaining chip. No way Sherman goes there though.

That’s absolutely gonna be the play.

[earthling]

Kansas would first need to come up with a realistic proposal that can be realistically financed and probably $100M+ better than MO side to get Sherman's interest. There's no leverage if it's not realistic. It's easy to plug empty proposals.

[GRID]

^ there is a big difference between the MO side and Downtown.

MO side job growth is way better for metro KC than KS side job growth though.

[KCPowercat]

Nah just the idea will freak out jaco

[earthling]

^Yes, but the core is getting a good chunk of the gains and the much of the rest aren't a long commute from downtown. And KS side is losing momentum. Downtown isn't going to suffer just because office jobs are reduced - there are many successful urban residential districts in US with far less if any office space. It would help if it gains more but you're overstating the impact.

WFH hybrid changes everything anyway if it sticks long term. Traditional office use as a temple for productivity could end up as a last century concept. Many analysts suggest we may be heading toward office use mainly for collaboration, not as much traditional. So the more residential downtown the merrier to offset potential loss of traditional daily office workers, a lower % anyway. Again, if this sticks, we don't know yet.

[AlkaliAxel]

Or just realize this is the starting point of a long campaign and that you have to sell these things over time and that the starting points are always low.

[GRID]

^Yes, but the core is getting a good chunk of the gains and the much of the rest aren't a long commute from downtown. And KS side is losing momentum. Downtown isn't going to suffer just because office jobs are reduced - there are many successful urban residential districts in US with far less if any office space. It would help if it gains more but you're overstating the impact.

WFH hybrid changes everything anyway if it sticks long term. Traditional office use as a temple for productivity could end up as a last century concept. Many analysts suggest we may be heading toward office use mainly for collaboration, not as much traditional. So the more residential downtown the merrier to offset potential loss of traditional daily office workers, a lower % anyway. Again, if this sticks, we don't know yet.

You may be right, but I still see a lot of office buildings going up in cities and new proposed office towers starting to come back to life again despite everything that is going on.

The difference is that downtown KC still needs to see higher rents and and more owner occupied units in order to sustain more density and higher prices in a market like KC, you are going to have to have jobs that are not in JoCo, SKC etc.

Why would you pay 2k k month to live downtown and still have to commute? Not all jobs are going to WFH.

If you go to cities with sustained high rise residential construction, they have a lot of jobs in the area and a regular amount of new office construction (which triggers hotels) going up at the same time.

Places like the Sprint campus (or whatever it's called) still have plans for major office construction, much more than downtown KC will build.

If downtown KC got back just 10% of the jobs from JoCo (or skc etc), it would be a game changer.

[earthling]

^Many of the offices still going up across US were financed before pandemic. The financing for new office construction has significantly declined since given vacancies are still rising every quarter. And yes, many would still pay $2K to live downtown with work commute if they want to have many culture things to do within a free streetcar ride away. It's happening now. For anyone wanting urban living, they'll choose along streetcar line over living near suburban office. I worked many times in suburban offices but never once considered living closer to work. Those who want city living will choose city living.

[AlkaliAxel]

I could be wrong but I don’t know anyone who’s living downtown because their job or office is there. Most everyone I know who lives down there is because they want the downtown experience. Although most of my friends are in their 20’s, but I figure that’s most of downtown.