Downtown Baseball Stadium

Discussion about new sports facilities in Kansas City
earthling
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by earthling »

And therefore should stadium just stay where it is unless along streetcar line? At least if along streetcar there are 10s of thousands of existing parking along it, especially down to Plaza.
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by flyingember »

earthling wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 7:12 am And therefore should stadium just stay where it is unless along streetcar line? At least if along streetcar there are 10s of thousands of existing parking along it, especially down to Plaza.
No, because the streetcar will never be able to bring enough people to it. Walking across downtown would be required no matter where it's placed.

Average 2019 attendence was 18,500.

In a perfect world,
At 150 per train that's 123 trains full.
With five trains running that's 24 train sets full.
At every 10 minutes that's six trains per hour. Using just the streetcar would take 4 hours to move everyone to the stadium.

So that means ~3/4 of people need to walk from their parking spot because the huge majority arrive 30-60 minutes before.

Parking Lot N to the closest entrance is 0.4 miles

0.4 miles away is Main St. There's tens of thousands of parking spots within 0.4 miles of the stadium.

What will happen instead is hotels will offer free game shuttles and you'll see new shuttle services open up where if you pay for parking a little further away you get a ride to within a block from the stadium
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by shinatoo »

earthling wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 7:12 am And therefore should stadium just stay where it is unless along streetcar line? At least if along streetcar there are 10s of thousands of existing parking along it, especially down to Plaza.
Don't see any point in building a streetcar out to TSC if Kauffman is moving. If it is moving then it should absolutely be within walking distance of the streetcar.
earthling
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by earthling »

Yeah, I see that came out odd. Meant that if not moving near streetcar existing/realistically proposed lines why move at all. Of course most attending will not use it but the more that use it the less parking needed nearby. And with NKC line potentially coming before stadium would open and maybe even KCK, along with many more trains that come with that, those who P&R along those lines cut out a lot of car traffic close to stadium. Is E Village close enough? Maybe but anything further than that (18th/E Xroads mentioned), why bother moving.
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by flyingember »

shinatoo wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 1:25 pm
earthling wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 7:12 am And therefore should stadium just stay where it is unless along streetcar line? At least if along streetcar there are 10s of thousands of existing parking along it, especially down to Plaza.
Don't see any point in building a streetcar out to TSC if Kauffman is moving. If it is moving then it should absolutely be within walking distance of the streetcar.
Wouldn't build a streetcar to the stadium, you would build commuter rail down Linwood to the Rock Island line to Lee's Summit that just happens to go by a football stadium
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by FangKC »

earthling wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 5:19 am The actual stadium site leans more to what I've been talking about. Fusing buildings into the stadium. Check out how it appears from street level. I was thinking something more grand than this with taller buildings, broader functions fused into stadium but this is the kind of approach that would prevent stadium from becoming a stand alone island - whether the outer ring buildings happen in this manner or not. Much better urbane approach than other renderings out there but can KC really pull this off w/out a lot of parking garages nearby/underneath as it's not quite close enough to streetcar line.
I worry about fusing buildings to the stadium itself--especially taller buildings. Stadiums tend to get torn down at some point. Fusing buildings to that stadium would mean tearing down the buildings as well. That seems unnecessary since the life cycle of a building should be much longer. I have no problem building taller buildings adjacent to the stadium though, and ringing the base with retail frontages.
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by horizons82 »

FangKC wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 5:19 pm I worry about fusing buildings to the stadium itself--especially taller buildings. Stadiums tend to get torn down at some point. Fusing buildings to that stadium would mean tearing down the buildings as well. That seems unnecessary since the life cycle of a building should be much longer. I have no problem building taller buildings adjacent to the stadium though, and ringing the base with retail frontages.
Any competent A/E firm should be able to design the "attached" buildings to live on in a post-stadium world; if that happens down the road.

Think about it like the conversion of Metro North Mall, where Macy's was spared while the inline tenants were removed.

In this case, the "attached" office/residential buildings are your anchor stores while the stadium itself is the inline tenants. Structurally and life-safety-wise, the anchor stores function as their own buildings and can be cleanly sliced away from the inline tenants when or if times change.
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by shinatoo »

flyingember wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 4:34 pm
shinatoo wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 1:25 pm
earthling wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 7:12 am And therefore should stadium just stay where it is unless along streetcar line? At least if along streetcar there are 10s of thousands of existing parking along it, especially down to Plaza.
Don't see any point in building a streetcar out to TSC if Kauffman is moving. If it is moving then it should absolutely be within walking distance of the streetcar.
Wouldn't build a streetcar to the stadium, you would build commuter rail down Linwood to the Rock Island line to Lee's Summit that just happens to go by a football stadium
No I wouldn't. Not unless Raytown and LS are paying for it.
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by normalthings »

FangKC wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 5:19 pm
earthling wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 5:19 am The actual stadium site leans more to what I've been talking about. Fusing buildings into the stadium. Check out how it appears from street level. I was thinking something more grand than this with taller buildings, broader functions fused into stadium but this is the kind of approach that would prevent stadium from becoming a stand alone island - whether the outer ring buildings happen in this manner or not. Much better urbane approach than other renderings out there but can KC really pull this off w/out a lot of parking garages nearby/underneath as it's not quite close enough to streetcar line.
I worry about fusing buildings to the stadium itself--especially taller buildings. Stadiums tend to get torn down at some point. Fusing buildings to that stadium would mean tearing down the buildings as well. That seems unnecessary since the life cycle of a building should be much longer. I have no problem building taller buildings adjacent to the stadium though, and ringing the base with retail frontages.
KC keeps her infrastructure far longer than the average city. A 50 year life span for the next stadium should be expected
earthling
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by earthling »

^And if a new stadium is built after 50 years it shouldn't be too difficult to retrofit this into a nice urban park or something else with public use. The architects can factor that the stands may not exist forever and think forward about a potential retrofit in distant future. And who knows what more advanced reconstruction techniques will exist by then as well.
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Re: Downtown ballpark and condos

Post by flyingember »

shinatoo wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 5:34 pm
flyingember wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 4:34 pm
shinatoo wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 1:25 pm

Don't see any point in building a streetcar out to TSC if Kauffman is moving. If it is moving then it should absolutely be within walking distance of the streetcar.
Wouldn't build a streetcar to the stadium, you would build commuter rail down Linwood to the Rock Island line to Lee's Summit that just happens to go by a football stadium
No I wouldn't. Not unless Raytown and LS are paying for it.
So in other words, a regional system with regional funding is needed and not just an urban core transit system serving a few hot button locations.

I would agree.
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normalthings
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Re: Would you like to see the Royals move to a downtown stadium?

Post by normalthings »

normalthings wrote: Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:16 pm 2005 Royals Washington Park Site Overview
Image

My 2018 Updated Renderings

View from West/Southwest
Image
View from the bottom of the memorial
Image
Union Hill Aerial
Image
Northeast Aerial
Image
Link to all images
https://imgur.com/a/ZQJR3w4

Please let me know what you think of this. Suggestions are welcomed. I could make something like this for the Northloop as well.

The stadium itself is very similar to Wrigley in Chicago. A lack of horizontal space is combatted by moving support areas and such(kitchens, dinning rooms, etc) below grade. The site has a lot of below grade space that can be utilized for such purposes.

I removed the game day plaza to allow for more seating and hotels/apartments/office spaces and associated spaces. Every potential revenue producing space must be capitalized on inorder to make the financing for this project work.

Why this site?:
1. The land is already owned by KCMO and Union Station.
2. No highway removal is required to get this going, unlike the northloop site.
3.The parcels included in my plan are hard to activate, unlike the North loop which would already have been built on by now.
5. I believe a Northloop stadium would turn into a sprawling suburban site in a prime downtown location. The limitations of the Washington Park site make sure the stadium and associated structures do not sprawl.

Worries: Traffic is definitely a concern at this site. Main should be closed to cars on game day to 1. preserve streetcar performance and 2. serve as a sort of pedestrian zone. This plan relies on a streetcar expansion, bussing, and hopefully LR to make the car problem manageable.
Okay what about this site but with soccer? Soccer stadium dimensions fits the site a lot better. There seems to be a great overlap of Urban Residents and soccer fans.

STL privately financed a soccer stadium recently. They spent a lot on removing over burden and bedrock to lower the playing field below grade. This site allows us to avoid those costs.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by kboish »

I love this idea. A soccer stadium could be tremendous right here.
earthling
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by earthling »

Nice effort on the renderings. Would be a great spot for baseball if the site is large enough, otherwise soccer a great idea. Lack of closer access to freeways only issue but closer to streetcar than other sites considered. Would put sports pubs and public use functions around stadium at street level.
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DColeKC
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by DColeKC »

I dig it. Only negatives I see if the fact it's taking up currently utilized green space that downtown needs compared to other sites that are underutilized or crappy parking lots.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by WoodDraw »

Ohh I like this idea a lot.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Critical_Mass »

DColeKC wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 10:56 am I dig it. Only negatives I see if the fact it's taking up currently utilized green space that downtown needs compared to other sites that are underutilized or crappy parking lots.
There is zero utilization of this green space apart from the people living there
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GRID
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by GRID »

Great spot for a soccer stadium. But is there even any chance what so ever that the team leaves the current stadium in the next 10 years minimum?
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

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Last edited by TheSmokinPun on Sun May 30, 2021 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Downtown Baseball Stadium

Post by Riverite »

I also feel like replacing midtown crossing with a stadium would be cool. Especially since the tram would be finished by that point
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