GO ROYALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KCPowercat]

As a Royals fan

but I would rather make my annual three trips to the K a summer to drink beer

Does not compute.


I have no idea on this trade but Greinke is a mess.  Tons of talent but no drive.  Just watch what he does in Milwaukee.

[macnw]

What are you to do with a guy that wants out, has no run support and is iffy about a big league market. We could keep him, but why?  It does pain me to say that. He has stated  before that he wants to finish his career with the Royals. Why the sudden change?
Yeah the Royals stink, it's not like he didn't know that though.

[phuqueue]

It is now on ESPN. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/stor ... BHeadlines

Yup, looks like it was just drunken wishful thinking on my part that it might not be true.  Oh well.

[MidtownCat]

Does not compute.


I have no idea on this trade but Greinke is a mess.  Tons of talent but no drive.  Just watch what he does in Milwaukee.

I just described 98% of the Royals fan base.  Not sure why that doesn't compute.

[KCPowercat]

I just assumed a "fan" of a team would go more than 3 out of 81 games.  Maybe not.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Good trade for the Royals.  Dump a player who is way above average in talent but is a mess in the head.  May turn things around and be a top pitcher his talent shows, IMO though '09 was his top year and the exception and not the rule.  Dump a shortstop that was overall "a-dime-a dozen" player at best.  In both you get rid of high cost players and leave your team with no players under contract past the 2011 season. In return you get two everyday starters with upside, a good prospect pitcher that could make a difference, and possibly a pitcher who should be servicable.

Yeah, it sounds like KC could have done better but face it, Grienke while not damaged goods is a player with some baggage that has himself as his own worse enemy.  If he gets his head straight the Royals got the shaft but I think he will go down as one of those players who does not live up to his potential.

[MidtownCat]

I just assumed a "fan" of a team would go more than 3 out of 81 games.  Maybe not.

Interesting assumption.

[KCPowercat]

lol

[smh]

Here's what Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel had to say:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/112152654.html


This Escobar fellow seems promising--as do the others, I suppose.

[MidtownCat]

lol

98% of Kansas City Royals fans go to 5 or fewer games.

If your classification of a 'fan' is a season ticket holder or something, that is about the most lollable thing I've heard all day.

[MidtownCat]

.

[KCPowercat]

98% of Kansas City Royals fans go to 5 or fewer games.

If your classification of a 'fan' is a season ticket holder or something, that is about the most lollable thing I've heard all day.

I didn't disagree with you.  Just wasn't what I think of as a "fan".  So you don't like the trade?  You think Greinke is going to be a hall of famer?

[phuqueue]

Keith Law says the trade reminds him of the Carlos Beltran fiasco, in that rather than taking the best haul we could get, we limited ourselves by looking to fill specific holes.  Of course, if you're trying to pick up guys at or near the majors, you can't be oblivious to the immediate needs of your major league club like you can (and should be) when drafting.  Still though, we got some guys with a lot of question marks -- drug suspensions, extensive injury history, etc.  The shortstop is supposed to have an excellent glove, which will be nice, but he doesn't walk at all and doesn't hit for any power.  Law says the center fielder also isn't likely to post a very high OBP unless he bats for high average, which I guess was supposed to be a roundabout way of saying he doesn't walk much either.  The best part of this package seems to be Odorizzi, who's at least three years away from the majors.  Crasnick points out that Dayton was looking for a Mark Teixiera-type package and what he got was "Teixiera-lite."  Even that seems a little generous.  This isn't an awful trade or anything but it definitely feels like a missed opportunity.  That might be at least in part due to restrictions imposed on Moore by Greinke's no trade clause, but it's frustrating all the same.  Word on Greinke is that he was basically just bored last season -- which isn't to say that on a contender he would have repeated 2009, but does mean last year shouldn't be taken as an indication that 2009 was an aberration or a fluke.  If that's the case, we just traded away one of the best pitchers in the game right now for a decent but underwhelming package.  This isn't Neifi Perez or anything but it definitely feels like we've stumbled yet again with a big trade.  Plus, not that this actually matters much, but we threw in cash too?  We just traded away a Cy Young winner in his prime, signed for like $12 million or whatever per year for the next two seasons and we had to throw in cash to sweeten the deal?  Seriously?  I've only read a few columns about it so far but the mood seems to range from Law's pessimism to a more apologist "the Royals had to make this move, so they did all right under the circumstances" type of attitude -- not really seeing a lot of "Dayton really knocked it out of the park on this one."

Law's conclusion kind of sums it up best:

The final piece I don't understand is Kansas City's urgency to trade Greinke now. He has two years left before free agency, giving them two trade deadlines and another offseason to trade him if they couldn't do something in the next two months. If Greinke did request or demand a trade already, the Royals could have told him they'd love to accommodate him as long as he cut down his no-trade list. This offer from Milwaukee may well have been the best the market was offering today, but that doesn't mean the Royals had to accept it today. Greinke couldn't have been burning a hole in their pocket -- perhaps they thought he'd fall through the one Jeff Francoeur is about to burn in it -- and there was a real possibility that Greinke would have started out strong in 2011 and boosted his value in trade. The Royals will see a lot of major league return in this trade, with Cain, Escobar and perhaps Jeffress all appearing in Kansas City in 2011, but this wasn't the best long-term move for a franchise with so much promise coming from within.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog?nam ... id=5935647

[MidtownCat]

I didn't disagree with you.  Just wasn't what I think of as a "fan".  So you don't like the trade?  You think Greinke is going to be a hall of famer?

You obviously do disagree with what consitutes a 'fan', but I'm not going to get in an argument over such a stupid talking point.

And this has nothing to do with whether or not Zack Greinke is going to be a hall of famer.  Another nice straw man.

What he is, is a very good, and at times elite level MLB pitcher and the face of the franchise.  A guy that is the only single attraction for a non-competitive ball club that consistently draws fans to the ballpark and symobilizes some semblence of hope for the future.  As far as the trade goes, I agree with Keith Law.  See above. I agree that it's a fiasco and I thought I made that pretty clear.  What's the urgency to unload a Cy Young winning all-star pitcher for mid-level prospects with two years left on his contract?  

That's asinine, but typical Royals front office management.

[KCPowercat]

Didn't Zack kinda push this issue/trade?  Ill admit I haven't followed it closely.

I dig your passion for the royals.

[KCRoyal]

Didn't Zack kinda push this issue/trade?  Ill admit I haven't followed it closely.

I dig your passion for the royals.

Yeah, pretty much.  Zack had a no-trade clause in his contract.  That limited the teams the Royals could trade with.  Reports say that the Nationals were interested and were willing to meet KC's demands, but Greinke used his no-trade.  Than Milwaukee came in the picture and Zack was okay with that move.

[KCMax]

I'm okay with the trade. I agree with some of phuq's points that we limited ourselves and what was the rush anyway, but on the face of it its certainly not a bad deal, and its a great deal better than the Beltran deal (Beltran was for 3 months, Milwaukee has Greinke for 2 years so it should be a great deal better!)

Escobar is a terrific defender and hit in the minors. I wouldn't expect much power from him, but he has great speed and if he can post a decentish OBA, he could be a valuable player. I can see him hitting a lot of triples in our deep alleys.

I like Cain more than most. I think he's a young David DeJesus. He was already productive at the MLB last year, although in limited time.

Odorizzi has the potential to be a frontline starting pitcher, he's just a long way from the big leagues. Gotta like what he's done thus far.

And Jeffress throws freaking 102 mph. Yea he has trouble with command sometimes and yea he has trouble with the wacky tobaccy, but he throws 102 mph. For the throw-in of a deal, that's a nice haul.

Posnanski is complaining that none of these guys will be elite players, but (1) I don't think baseball men have a great ability to project elite talent among prospects all of the time; and (2) even if they're not elite, they all seem to be more polished than your typical prospect and look to be solid MLBers. We already have elite talent - Moose, Hos, Myers, Monty, we'll need good players around them if we want to compete so we're not signing the Jeff Franceours of the world anymore.

Sad to see Zack go though. On the plus side - no more Yuniesky Betancourt!

[aknowledgeableperson]

I'm okay with the trade.

Agree.  It is a shame the Royals didn't get a young player who would be an all-star this year with other top-tier talent.  However, it doesn't appear the Royals have hurt themselves - got two starters, got some defense, got some speed, players still have options, dumped some payroll, got a longer term starting pitcher, and got rid of a player who was not happy, could end up being trouble in the clubhouse, and not giving 100% when playing.

[droopy]

Posnanski is complaining that none of these guys will be elite players, but (1) I don't think baseball men have a great ability to project elite talent among prospects all of the time; and (2) even if they're not elite, they all seem to be more polished than your typical prospect and look to be solid MLBers. We already have elite talent - Moose, Hos, Myers, Monty, we'll need good players around them if we want to compete so we're not signing the Jeff Franceours of the world anymore.

This is the bit that frustrates and concerns me.  The Royals are touted as having one of the strongest minor league systems going, but the MLB team still fails.  I'd like to see some prosperity on the major league level SOON.  Hopefully at least one of these guys turns into the Royals all-star representative within 5 years, and not because the rest of the team was pitiful (you're welcome Mark Redman)

[KCMax]

This is the bit that frustrates and concerns me.  The Royals are touted as having one of the strongest minor league systems going, but the MLB team still fails.  I'd like to see some prosperity on the major league level SOON.  Hopefully at least one of these guys turns into the Royals all-star representative within 5 years, and not because the rest of the team was pitiful (you're welcome Mark Redman)

Well Cain and Escobar should be in the starting lineup in April. Moose will be here by mid-season most likely and we'll probably see Mike Montgomery, Danny Duffy, Louis Coleman and Chris Dwyer this year as well. John Lamb, Aaron Crow, Christian Colon, Johnny Giovatella and Eric Hosmer will all likely get cups of coffee in September. So we should at least get a ray of hope this year.