Sporting Kansas City

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AlkaliAxel
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Re: Sporting Kansas City

Post by AlkaliAxel »

beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:26 pm
AlkaliAxel wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:15 pm 3. I'm skeptical downtown wouldn't be able to support them all. NBA & MLB play in opposite seasons, and SKC plays at home like once every other week. I don't see the problem.
I think it'd just be a huge pressure on our system. Imagine a concert at T-Mobile with games at SKC and Royals at the same time. That's not counting other events (conventions, First Friday, etc.). You would be overdemanding the supply.
I hear this reasoning all the time about "what if the concert and the games happen..etc" but to me I think we need to *embrace* that as a city. Having the concert and a game on the same night is what living in a real downtown is all about. If there is a problem hosting both, then find a way to make a it work where we can have both at once. It should create the demand to fix that if it's a problem anyway. KC shouldn't be turning things away because we think it's too much.
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Re: Sporting Kansas City

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AlkaliAxel wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:37 pm I hear this reasoning all the time about "what if the concert and the games happen..etc" but to me I think we need to *embrace* that as a city. Having the concert and a game on the same night is what living in a real downtown is all about. If there is a problem hosting both, then find a way to make a it work where we can have both at once. It should create the demand to fix that if it's a problem anyway. KC shouldn't be turning things away because we think it's too much.
My comment relates more to the experience for people coming DT for a sporting event. Have we had a professional sporting event in our DT in the last 100 years? There will be some fairly large transition pains implementing just one new team here, let alone 3. The "come early to the game and have a beer at a bar or get dinner at a restaurant" would be problematic with multiple stacked, large events. There's just not the capacity there. Parking would take some time for many people who have literally NEVER been DT. There's no mass transit. My thought was just to stagger the new teams DT in an effort to allow for some growing pains and allow infrastructure to catch up and avoid mass chaos and a poor viewpoint of our new DT.
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Re: Sporting Kansas City

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normalthings wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:00 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:40 pm From what I'm hearing, this one might be a race. I don't know if DT can really support three franchises (NBA, SKC, MLB). One of these will be left out and getting an NBA relocation seems to be the cities first priority. So, the other two need to make some big moves to get a spot DT. My prediction is that the Chiefs help push for the Royals to be the winner. The Royals would give them sole control of TSC and give them standing to get additional money for their stadium as well.
heard this from a pretty connected/powerful contact this week:


Within 5 years, there will be a professional team playing downtown or with a stadium well under construction.
I'd be very surprised if the royals aren't downtown soon. Sporting KC wants to be downtown but issues.

I'd be surprised if we don't start hearing some leaks soon. There's a very vocal 18th and Vine group but I don't see how it's not east village.

The royals want to come downtown 😂
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Re: Sporting Kansas City

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beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:35 pm
AlkaliAxel wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:37 pm I hear this reasoning all the time about "what if the concert and the games happen..etc" but to me I think we need to *embrace* that as a city. Having the concert and a game on the same night is what living in a real downtown is all about. If there is a problem hosting both, then find a way to make a it work where we can have both at once. It should create the demand to fix that if it's a problem anyway. KC shouldn't be turning things away because we think it's too much.
My comment relates more to the experience for people coming DT for a sporting event. Have we had a professional sporting event in our DT in the last 100 years? There will be some fairly large transition pains implementing just one new team here, let alone 3. The "come early to the game and have a beer at a bar or get dinner at a restaurant" would be problematic with multiple stacked, large events. There's just not the capacity there. Parking would take some time for many people who have literally NEVER been DT. There's no mass transit. My thought was just to stagger the new teams DT in an effort to allow for some growing pains and allow infrastructure to catch up and avoid mass chaos and a poor viewpoint of our new DT.
If downtown becomes the center of streetcar/lrt lines to NKC, KCK, Independence Ave, Plaza, JoCo it might start to be able to put a dent in event traffic for an NBA, SKC, or concert.

5*12*200 = 12,000


Bars and restaurants will be easy to put in place if the teams come downtown. It is rail, parking, roads, that are a concern.
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Re: Sporting Kansas City

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WoodDraw wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:57 pm
normalthings wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:00 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:40 pm From what I'm hearing, this one might be a race. I don't know if DT can really support three franchises (NBA, SKC, MLB). One of these will be left out and getting an NBA relocation seems to be the cities first priority. So, the other two need to make some big moves to get a spot DT. My prediction is that the Chiefs help push for the Royals to be the winner. The Royals would give them sole control of TSC and give them standing to get additional money for their stadium as well.
heard this from a pretty connected/powerful contact this week:


Within 5 years, there will be a professional team playing downtown or with a stadium well under construction.
I'd be very surprised if the royals aren't downtown soon. Sporting KC wants to be downtown but issues.

I'd be surprised if we don't start hearing some leaks soon. There's a very vocal 18th and Vine group but I don't see how it's not east village.

The royals want to come downtown 😂
18th & Vine is politically favorable.
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Re: Sporting Kansas City

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normalthings wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:01 pm Bars and restaurants will be easy to put in place if the teams come downtown. It is rail, parking, roads, that are a concern.
In the long term, yes. But, the launch is critical and I’d hate to see suburbanite prophecies of “the parking will be terrible” and “there will be nowhere to eat”, turn into reality. I’d love the Pelicans, Royals and SKC all DT. I just think a stairstep approach (2-3 years between additional teams) would be ideal.
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Re: Sporting Kansas City

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I think this is why highway capping/removal gets even more important. It was mentioned here earlier before that the sheer size of downtown wouldn’t be big enough to handle that many cars/people. That’s why I think long term here we should look into tearing out the East loop too so that we can expand the loop and accommodate this growth.

If East loop isn’t removed to make up for this, then Crossroads is gonna be built up and become a downtown extension and lose its “character”. Personally I don’t mind that but I know some do.
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Re: Sporting Kansas City

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normalthings wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:14 pm
WoodDraw wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:57 pm
normalthings wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:00 pm

heard this from a pretty connected/powerful contact this week:


Within 5 years, there will be a professional team playing downtown or with a stadium well under construction.
I'd be very surprised if the royals aren't downtown soon. Sporting KC wants to be downtown but issues.

I'd be surprised if we don't start hearing some leaks soon. There's a very vocal 18th and Vine group but I don't see how it's not east village.

The royals want to come downtown 😂
18th & Vine is politically favorable.
Very.
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Re: Sporting Kansas City

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flyingember wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:58 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:26 pm
AlkaliAxel wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:15 pm 3. I'm skeptical downtown wouldn't be able to support them all. NBA & MLB play in opposite seasons, and SKC plays at home like once every other week. I don't see the problem.
I think it'd just be a huge pressure on our system. Imagine a concert at T-Mobile with games at SKC and Royals at the same time. That's not counting other events (conventions, First Friday, etc.). You would be overdemanding the supply.
Not even close to pressure is likely.

Kauffman Holds 37,900
T-Mobile Center holds 19000.
Soccer is 18500

Downtown has 110,000 workers. The three sports teams will have more carpooling. Assume 2.5 people per spot as many couples, families, frined groups go to sporting events.

So peak downtown use would be 5-6pm with 100,000+ cars
all three places with an event at once would be ~30,000 cars

It's more a matter of physical space for stadiums than if downtown could handle three teams at once, even replacing sporting with the chiefs.
If multiple events happen at the same time, it would also depend on where each facility was placed. If the baseball stadium is in the East Village, people could access it from the East Loop exit ramps, and Heart of America Bridge via Oak. If Sporting KC is at Washington Square Park/Crown Center, people would access that from other directions. Even if Sporting KC is at 19th and Forest in the Jazz District, people would take different routes and exits.

Sure there will be backups in traffic, but big cities always have backups in traffic when there are a lot of activities location in one area.

While an NBA team might be a priority, unfortunately, I don't think Kansas City is a big enough media market right now to convince a team owner to move here. There are larger markets without a team, and other cities growing at a much faster rate.

Kansas City needs to focus more on growing the Metro population.
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Re: Sporting Kansas City

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beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:28 pm
normalthings wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:01 pm Bars and restaurants will be easy to put in place if the teams come downtown. It is rail, parking, roads, that are a concern.
In the long term, yes. But, the launch is critical and I’d hate to see suburbanite prophecies of “the parking will be terrible” and “there will be nowhere to eat”, turn into reality. I’d love the Pelicans, Royals and SKC all DT. I just think a stairstep approach (2-3 years between additional teams) would be ideal.
1 restaurant is more than there are at TSC today. Like the airport, the experience today is soo bad that anything would be an improvement. I agree that parking and transport is a big issue that must be fixed.


I think we are lying to ourselves if we think people will ride increased buses like they would a dedicated ROW rail line.
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Re: Sporting Kansas City

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FangKC wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:24 pm
flyingember wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:58 pm
beautyfromashes wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:26 pm
I think it'd just be a huge pressure on our system. Imagine a concert at T-Mobile with games at SKC and Royals at the same time. That's not counting other events (conventions, First Friday, etc.). You would be overdemanding the supply.
Not even close to pressure is likely.

Kauffman Holds 37,900
T-Mobile Center holds 19000.
Soccer is 18500

Downtown has 110,000 workers. The three sports teams will have more carpooling. Assume 2.5 people per spot as many couples, families, frined groups go to sporting events.

So peak downtown use would be 5-6pm with 100,000+ cars
all three places with an event at once would be ~30,000 cars

It's more a matter of physical space for stadiums than if downtown could handle three teams at once, even replacing sporting with the chiefs.
If multiple events happen at the same time, it would also depend on where each facility was placed. If the baseball stadium is in the East Village, people could access it from the East Loop exit ramps, and Heart of America Bridge via Oak. If Sporting KC is at Washington Square Park/Crown Center, people would access that from other directions. Even if Sporting KC is at 19th and Forest in the Jazz District, people would take different routes and exits.

Sure there will be backups in traffic, but big cities always have backups in traffic when there are a lot of activities location in one area.

While an NBA team might be a priority, unfortunately, I don't think Kansas City is a big enough media market right now to convince a team owner to move here. There are larger markets without a team, and other cities growing at a much faster rate.

Kansas City needs to focus more on growing the Metro population.
Respectfully I’m gonna have to disagree with you on this on Fang as per the NBA. Yes Seattle and Vegas might be better markets but we all know they’re getting expansion teams. The next best markets are Tampa, Nashville, San Diego, Austin. But 3 of those markets are way way too close other already small markets. And San Diego doesn’t have a viable venue. KC is really the only one left standing there.
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Re: Sporting Kansas City

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AlkaliAxel wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:57 pm
FangKC wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:24 pm
flyingember wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:58 pm

Not even close to pressure is likely.

Kauffman Holds 37,900
T-Mobile Center holds 19000.
Soccer is 18500

Downtown has 110,000 workers. The three sports teams will have more carpooling. Assume 2.5 people per spot as many couples, families, frined groups go to sporting events.

So peak downtown use would be 5-6pm with 100,000+ cars
all three places with an event at once would be ~30,000 cars

It's more a matter of physical space for stadiums than if downtown could handle three teams at once, even replacing sporting with the chiefs.
If multiple events happen at the same time, it would also depend on where each facility was placed. If the baseball stadium is in the East Village, people could access it from the East Loop exit ramps, and Heart of America Bridge via Oak. If Sporting KC is at Washington Square Park/Crown Center, people would access that from other directions. Even if Sporting KC is at 19th and Forest in the Jazz District, people would take different routes and exits.

Sure there will be backups in traffic, but big cities always have backups in traffic when there are a lot of activities location in one area.

While an NBA team might be a priority, unfortunately, I don't think Kansas City is a big enough media market right now to convince a team owner to move here. There are larger markets without a team, and other cities growing at a much faster rate.

Kansas City needs to focus more on growing the Metro population.
Respectfully I’m gonna have to disagree with you on this on Fang as per the NBA. Yes Seattle and Vegas might be better markets but we all know they’re getting expansion teams. The next best markets are Tampa, Nashville, San Diego, Austin. But 3 of those markets are way way too close other already small markets. And San Diego doesn’t have a viable venue. KC is really the only one left standing there.
Nashville should be way ahead of us.

Nashville will pass KC in size in the next few years. Has 1 "major" major league team and 2 "minor" major league teams. Enough tourists to fill every home game. More money and big businesses there.

KC has 2 "major" major league teams and 1 "minor" major league team.


Edit.

"Major" Major = MLB, NFL
"Minor" Major = NHL, MLS
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Re: Sporting Kansas City

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normalthings wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 11:03 pm
AlkaliAxel wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:57 pm
FangKC wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:24 pm

If multiple events happen at the same time, it would also depend on where each facility was placed. If the baseball stadium is in the East Village, people could access it from the East Loop exit ramps, and Heart of America Bridge via Oak. If Sporting KC is at Washington Square Park/Crown Center, people would access that from other directions. Even if Sporting KC is at 19th and Forest in the Jazz District, people would take different routes and exits.

Sure there will be backups in traffic, but big cities always have backups in traffic when there are a lot of activities location in one area.

While an NBA team might be a priority, unfortunately, I don't think Kansas City is a big enough media market right now to convince a team owner to move here. There are larger markets without a team, and other cities growing at a much faster rate.

Kansas City needs to focus more on growing the Metro population.
Respectfully I’m gonna have to disagree with you on this on Fang as per the NBA. Yes Seattle and Vegas might be better markets but we all know they’re getting expansion teams. The next best markets are Tampa, Nashville, San Diego, Austin. But 3 of those markets are way way too close other already small markets. And San Diego doesn’t have a viable venue. KC is really the only one left standing there.
Nashville should be way ahead of us.

Nashville will pass KC in size in the next few years. Has 1 "major" major league team and 2 "minor" major league teams. Enough tourists to fill every home game. More money and big businesses there.

KC has 2 "major" major league teams and 1 "minor" major league team.


Edit.

"Major" Major = MLB, NFL
"Minor" Major = NHL, MLS
Yeah but Nashville is way way too close to the Memphis Grizzles to hold a team. That's why they're pursuing MLB and not NBA. Not to mention they're already hosting NHL and NFL in the winter. They're not a market I'd be worried about as a competitor for NBA at all. San Diego probably the only main threat since they're trying to get arena built.
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Re: Sporting Kansas City

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AlkaliAxel wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 11:07 pm

Yeah but Nashville is way way too close to the Memphis Grizzles to hold a team.
The two cities are just over three hours away from each other and in two different TV markets so that would be enough of a separation. I wouldn't be surprised if many are looking forward to seeing games between the two, two natural rivals. And I'm sure the local arena wouldn't mind having a second team in the winter.
And let's not forget Nashville is the state capital of Tennessee and has a lot of money floating around.
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Re: Sporting Kansas City

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Nashville isn't that big, and neither is Memphis. Memphis is already the poorest team in the NBA and has the nearly the worst attendance. It's a huge stretch to have two small-metro NBA teams in both of those cities that are in the same state and 3 hours away from each other when you already Atlanta and Charlotte looming nearby as well. Usually in a situation like that, you have a team that the whole state roots for (Memphis). On top of that, they're already hosting NHL and NFL in the winter time as well. For all these reasons, that's why Nashville is pursuing MLB and has little interest in going for NBA. They have no sports in Tennessee in the summer seasons and are overloaded in winter sports.

But...if Nashville did get an NBA team, Memphis would undoubtedly move. Even without Nashville having NBA they've looked into relocating. So you'd still see a balancing act anyway where I think KC would come out with a team.

Bottom line is that there are just better NBA markets than Nashville, like KC and San Diego. KC has more people, has the arena with great location, no NHL to compete with, and would have a much much bigger reach from where to draw NBA fans and viewers from. It's not even close really. That's why every legit article discussing the next NBA cities KC is always in the three cities mentioned. But again, this is why Nashville is pursuing MLB and rightly so for them.
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Re: Sporting Kansas City

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I think downtown soccer makes perfect sense but Illiag loves village west soo much.
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Re: Sporting Kansas City

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Not really sure there's a specific spot for this...

The KC NWSL team announced their new team name at halftime.

The Kansas City Current.

Obvious reasons, new riverfront stadium..etc.
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Re: Sporting Kansas City

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normalthings wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:31 pm I think downtown soccer makes perfect sense but Illiag loves village west soo much.
Downtown MLS not going to happen for a long while
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Re: Sporting Kansas City

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normalthings wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:05 pm Downtown MLS not going to happen for a long while
In the 1990s all the baseball ballparks were copying suburban style and working to move to that part of metros to capture that demographic. Then, Camden Yards was built in 1993 and in the decade after most all of the new ballparks were urban inspired and looking to connect people to DTs. A lot can change in a short amount of time. Your "long time" could be very relative. I personally think you will see a decision by SKC to move downtown in the next decade. It's inevitable.
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Re: Sporting Kansas City

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beautyfromashes wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 11:56 pm
normalthings wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:05 pm Downtown MLS not going to happen for a long while
In the 1990s all the baseball ballparks were copying suburban style and working to move to that part of metros to capture that demographic. Then, Camden Yards was built in 1993 and in the decade after most all of the new ballparks were urban inspired and looking to connect people to DTs. A lot can change in a short amount of time. Your "long time" could be very relative. I personally think you will see a decision by SKC to move downtown in the next decade. It's inevitable.
1 decade is a long time. I believe in 10 years they will announce plans to move downtown.
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