2012 - 2013 SEC football

[KC-wildcat]

The argument for the SEC needs to be that it elevates the stature of the football program and the University as a whole. Throwing away 100+ year old rivalries against K-State and most notably KU is only justified if MU is elevated by the move.

MU fans are sorry and pathetic who tote the party line that Mizzou will be no better in the SEC than in the Big XII, but that's OK because they'll "enjoy the bigger check."

say what you want about stability, etc. I think it's complete BS coming from the school that shopped itself to the B1G in the first place, but we've been over that ad nauseam.

Making the move for a few more million dollars in a billion dollar industry is despicable. Just my two cents.

[AllThingsKC]

The argument for the SEC needs to be that it elevates the stature of the football program and the University as a whole. Throwing away 100+ year old rivalries against K-State and most notably KU is only justified if MU is elevated by the move.

I would agree with this, except I don't view Mizzou as the one "throwing away 100+ year rivalries." Mizzou has said they still want to play KU. KU has said "We don't play teams that hurt the Big 12. (except for Colorado, Texas A&M, and maybe Nebraska in the future)."

MU fans are sorry and pathetic who tote the party line that Mizzou will be no better in the SEC than in the Big XII, but that's OK because they'll "enjoy the bigger check."

The bigger check is only one benefit the SEC gives Mizzou. If the competition is about the same in the Big 12 and SEC, then why not be in the more desirable and stable conference? Seems like a no brainier. That's probably why West Virginia tried to join the SEC and ACC before finally joining the Big 12.

say what you want about stability, etc. I think it's complete BS coming from the school that shopped itself to the B1G in the first place, but we've been over that ad nauseam.

Yes, we have. But, Mizzou didn't join the Big 10...and the Big 12 still lost 3 other schools. If just the RUMORS of one school leaving the is enough to create instability and force 3 others schools to leave, then I guess the Big 12 was never stable to begin with.

Making the move for a few more million dollars in a billion dollar industry is despicable. Just my two cents.

I agree with this! I do not like the conference realignment at all, despite being an SEC homer. I don't like what it's doing to college football. I only see it getting worse, not better. But, for whatever reason, that's the direction college football is headed. That is probably why K-State officials (and others) met with Pac-12 officials last year. It's every college for itself. That sucks, IMO, because it takes away the "innocence" of college sports.

[pstokely]

Making the move for a few more million dollars in a billion dollar industry is despicable. Just my two cents.

The system is broken, kU,K-state, or Iowa-State would have done the same if they had the option to get out of the Bevo 10.

[phxcat]

The argument for the SEC needs to be that it elevates the stature of the football program and the University as a whole. Throwing away 100+ year old rivalries against K-State and most notably KU is only justified if MU is elevated by the move.

I would agree with this, except I don't view Mizzou as the one "throwing away 100+ year rivalries." Mizzou has said they still want to play KU. KU has said "We don't play teams that hurt the Big 12. (except for Colorado, Texas A&M, and maybe Nebraska in the future)."

Why should KU bend over backwards to continue the rivalry? That's what MU is trying to make them do by changing conferences and then expecting them to continue it in the non-con. I don't think MU ever had any intention of continuing it, they made the statement knowing that KU would say no. The difference is that KU was honest about it.

[AllThingsKC]

Why should KU bend over backwards to continue the rivalry? That's what MU is trying to make them do by changing conferences and then expecting them to continue it in the non-con. I don't think MU ever had any intention of continuing it, they made the statement knowing that KU would say no. The difference is that KU was honest about it.

KU is honest about it? Bill Self's statement was, "We don't play teams that hurt the Big 12." That's perfectly fine. I respect that. Nobody expects them to switch the rivalry to non-con (especially on short notice). Of course, KU does have games with Colorado and Texas A&M (and possibly Nebraska in the future). That doesn't sound like honesty to me.

[pstokely]

The argument for the SEC needs to be that it elevates the stature of the football program and the University as a whole. Throwing away 100+ year old rivalries against K-State and most notably KU is only justified if MU is elevated by the move.

I would agree with this, except I don't view Mizzou as the one "throwing away 100+ year rivalries." Mizzou has said they still want to play KU. KU has said "We don't play teams that hurt the Big 12. (except for Colorado, Texas A&M, and maybe Nebraska in the future)."

Why should KU bend over backwards to continue the rivalry? That's what MU is trying to make them do by changing conferences and then expecting them to continue it in the non-con. I don't think MU ever had any intention of continuing it, they made the statement knowing that KU would say no. The difference is that KU was honest about it.

more kU's loss than MU's

[KC-wildcat]

more kU's loss than MU's

What, the 2 guaranteed wins in basketball every year?

[pstokely]

more kU's loss than MU's

What, the 2 guaranteed wins in basketball every year?

MU has moved on to bigger and better things, kU is still stuck in the Bevo 10 for however much longer it lasts

[KC-wildcat]

MU has moved on to bigger and betterthings, kU is still stuck in the Bevo 10 for however much longer it lasts

FYP.

[AJoD]

out of conference rivals < in conference rivalries

by a large margin

[AllThingsKC]

out of conference rivals < in conference rivalries

by a large margin

Except for maybe:

Army/Navy
Norte Dame/Michigan
Norte Dame/USC
Florida/Florida State
Missouri/Illinois
Georgia/Georgia Tech
South Carolina/Clemson
Kentucky/Louisville
Kentucky/Indiana
Kentucky/West Virgina
Kansas/North Carolina
Kansas/Colorado
Iowa State/Iowa
North Carolina/South Carolina

[Highlander]

out of conference rivals < in conference rivalries

by a large margin

Except for maybe:

Army/Navy
Norte Dame/Michigan We'll see if this survives the ACC move
Norte Dame/USC ditto
Florida/Florida State
Missouri/Illinois This is not a rivalry regardless of how much a few fans wanted it to happen.
Georgia/Georgia Tech
South Carolina/Clemson
Kentucky/Louisville
Kentucky/Indiana maybe - but barely - Kentucky Louisville is much much bigger
Kentucky/West Virgina eh, also not a rivalry
Kansas/North Carolina not even close to being a rivalry.
Kansas/Colorado Are you kidding?
Iowa State/Iowa
North Carolina/South Carolina Nope, not a rivalry either

Rivalries require two things - regular play and both fan groups have to really care. Mizzou fans cared far more about KSU or OSU and OU than Illinois. That matchup was never a true rivalry. Illinois fans could care less. Some of the ones you mention are great rivalries but KU - Colorado? c'mon man.

What is particularly ironic (and galling) is that all the brilliant Mizzou fans vying for a stronger Mizzou - Illinois rivalry to replace the Mizzou - KU rivalry back in the days of courting the big X (because KU was apparently beneath Mizzou), were the same that stongly pushed for a move to SEC who promptly rivaled us with Arkansas. KU isn't a worthy rival but ARKANSAS is!! What an embarassment to the school and the state.

[AllThingsKC]

Army/Navy
Norte Dame/Michigan We'll see if this survives the ACC move
Norte Dame/USC ditto
Florida/Florida State
Missouri/Illinois This is not a rivalry regardless of how much a few fans wanted it to happen.
Georgia/Georgia Tech
South Carolina/Clemson
Kentucky/Louisville
Kentucky/Indiana maybe - but barely - Kentucky Louisville is much much bigger
Kentucky/West Virgina eh, also not a rivalry
Kansas/North Carolina not even close to being a rivalry.
Kansas/Colorado Are you kidding?
Iowa State/Iowa
North Carolina/South Carolina Nope, not a rivalry either

Army/Navy
Norte Dame/Michigan - They're not in the same conference now. Why would the ACC be any different? (And ND will only play, what, 5 ACC schools?)
Norte Dame/USC - see above.
Florida/Florida State
Missouri/Illinois - An annual game with a 50/50 fanbase seems like a rivlary to me.
Georgia/Georgia Tech
South Carolina/Clemson
Kentucky/Louisville
Kentucky/Indiana - This rivalry was shown during the regular season and again in the Tournament.
Kentucky/West Virgina - Not according to West Virginia fans who wanted to be in the SEC.
Kansas/North Carolina - Not according to Kansas. In fact, that's one reason why KU can't play MU...KU has too many non-con rivalries.
Kansas/Colorado - Why else would KU schedule CU and not MU? They probably want a rivalry. Why have KU/MU when you can have KU/CU?
Iowa State/Iowa
North Carolina/South Carolina - I know fans of both schools who say otherwise.

[Highlander]

Army/Navy
Norte Dame/Michigan We'll see if this survives the ACC move
Norte Dame/USC ditto
Florida/Florida State
Missouri/Illinois This is not a rivalry regardless of how much a few fans wanted it to happen.
Georgia/Georgia Tech
South Carolina/Clemson
Kentucky/Louisville
Kentucky/Indiana maybe - but barely - Kentucky Louisville is much much bigger
Kentucky/West Virgina eh, also not a rivalry
Kansas/North Carolina not even close to being a rivalry.
Kansas/Colorado Are you kidding?
Iowa State/Iowa
North Carolina/South Carolina Nope, not a rivalry either

Army/Navy
Norte Dame/Michigan - They're not in the same conference now. Why would the ACC be any different? (And ND will only play, what, 5 ACC schools?)
Norte Dame/USC - see above.
Florida/Florida State
Missouri/Illinois - An annual game with a 50/50 fanbase seems like a rivlary to me.
Georgia/Georgia Tech
South Carolina/Clemson
Kentucky/Louisville
Kentucky/Indiana - This rivalry was shown during the regular season and again in the Tournament.
Kentucky/West Virgina - Not according to West Virginia fans who wanted to be in the SEC.
Kansas/North Carolina - Not according to Kansas. In fact, that's one reason why KU can't play MU...KU has too many non-con rivalries.
Kansas/Colorado - Why else would KU schedule CU and not MU? They probably want a rivalry. Why have KU/MU when you can have KU/CU?
Iowa State/Iowa
North Carolina/South Carolina - I know fans of both schools who say otherwise.

Sorry but none of that passes the smell test. For a rivalry - MOST the fans at both schools need to care and be passionate about the matchup, not a few fans or fans limited to one city in the fan base like St Louis in the Illinois Mizzou Non Rivalry. Hey, I'll watch a Missouri - Illinois matchup but it means little more than any other game to most fans. There's no tradition for the rest of the matchups, intriguing maybe, but not rivalries. Most of those teams simply do not play each other enough (like KU NC).

There are some great non conference rivalries, no doubt...you named many if not most of them. Stick with the good ones, a lot of the others simply are not rivalries.

[AllThingsKC]

Sorry but none of that passes the smell test. For a rivalry - MOST the fans at both schools need to care and be passionate about the matchup, not a few fans or fans limited to one city in the fan base like St Louis in the Illinois Mizzou Non Rivalry. Hey, I'll watch a Missouri - Illinois matchup but it means little more than any other game to most fans. There's no tradition for the rest of the matchups, intriguing maybe, but not rivalries. Most of those teams simply do not play each other enough (like KU NC).

This is a fair statement. But, non-con rivalries DO exist and I see no reason why the second longest rivalry in college sports can't overcome a non-con schedule. In the mean time, I guess we're stuck with MU/Arky and KU/CU.

[Highlander]

Sorry but none of that passes the smell test. For a rivalry - MOST the fans at both schools need to care and be passionate about the matchup, not a few fans or fans limited to one city in the fan base like St Louis in the Illinois Mizzou Non Rivalry. Hey, I'll watch a Missouri - Illinois matchup but it means little more than any other game to most fans. There's no tradition for the rest of the matchups, intriguing maybe, but not rivalries. Most of those teams simply do not play each other enough (like KU NC).

This is a fair statement. But, non-con rivalries DO exist and I see no reason why the second longest rivalry in college sports can't overcome a non-con schedule. In the time, I guess we're stuck with MU/Arky and KU/CU.

Agreed. Some great non conference rivalries and they are usually built around the same kind of "hatred" Mizzou and KU have for each other. So, there's no reason it cannot or should not happen with KU. Just obstinance - on both sides.

Rivalries are not just selected and happen on demand. That's why Mizzou - Illinois never really took off as much more than a regular season game despite attempts to make it a rivalry. Truth is, there's no real reason for a rivalry with Illinois. Same with Arkansas and Mizzou. Arkansas fans are easy to hate as are most SEC fans but that's not quite enough either. We have a common border but a small percentage of the population actually lives near it so that's not going to make it happen either. Mike Anderson will certainly provide intrigue on the b-ball side and that will make that at least interesting - but not a rivalry. It won't be as much fun in the SEC.

[chaglang]

The Kentucky-Indiana basketball series is off for the foreseeable future because of John Calipari's ego they couldn't agree on a site.

[AJoD]

out of conference rivals < in conference rivalries

by a large margin

Except for maybe:

Army/Navy
Norte Dame/Michigan
Norte Dame/USC
Florida/Florida State
Missouri/Illinois
Georgia/Georgia Tech
South Carolina/Clemson
Kentucky/Louisville
Kentucky/Indiana
Kentucky/West Virgina
Kansas/North Carolina
Kansas/Colorado
Iowa State/Iowa
North Carolina/South Carolina

The only significant college football rivalries above, on the national scene, are Army/Navy, ND/Michigan, ND/USC, Florida/FSU, GA/GTech, South Carolina/Clemson. And that's pretty generous. Army/Navy is historical. The Georgia and South Carolina rivalries are really more of regional interest, leaving three that actually matter. And Notre Dame, Army and Navy are all independents. Leaving one annual football game (Florida/Florida St.) between two teams in separate conferences that has rivalry status and regularly attracts national interest. And none of the college football rivalries above involve two teams from different conferences and different states.

Also if you start a list at the top with the best conference rivalries and the best non-conference rivalries and compare 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2, on down the line---conference rivalries will win every time and continue long past the end of the non-con list.

There's just no way regional antagonism + conference champion implications can't trump regional antagonism alone. There's more at at stake. I like the Iowa-Iowa St game, don't get me wrong. I just don't understand how people can argue that it makes no difference if it's in or out of conference. You separate Michigan and Ohio St or Auburn and Alabama conference-wise and it totally changes the deal. Look at what happened with Nebraska-Oklahoma just by breaking up the divisions.

Also, several of those quoted above are not rivalries.

[aknowledgeableperson]

I would agree with this, except I don't view Mizzou as the one "throwing away 100+ year rivalries." Mizzou has said they still want to play KU. KU has said "We don't play teams that hurt the Big 12. (except for Colorado, Texas A&M, and maybe Nebraska in the future)."

Both sides threw the rivalry nder the bus. Both sides are equally guilty. MU for changing conferences and KU for turning down the offer. Maybe it is time now to "get over it" and move on.

[AllThingsKC]

The only significant college football rivalries above, on the national scene, are Army/Navy, ND/Michigan, ND/USC, Florida/FSU, GA/GTech, South Carolina/Clemson. And that's pretty generous. Army/Navy is historical. The Georgia and South Carolina rivalries are really more of regional interest, leaving three that actually matter. And Notre Dame, Army and Navy are all independents. Leaving one annual football game (Florida/Florida St.) between two teams in separate conferences that has rivalry status and regularly attracts national interest. And none of the college football rivalries above involve two teams from different conferences and different states.

Ok, so non-con rivalries must meet your criteria of: 1) football-only, 2) neither school being independent, 3) both schools being in 2 different states, 4) has national interest. Ok, then. You got me! You've really narrowed down the search.

Does it really matter if some of the best non-con aren't in 2 different states? They're still regional (like KU/MU). Are you suggesting that the second-oldest rivalry in college sports can't be a non-con rivalry because they're in 2 different states?

There's just no way regional antagonism + conference champion implications can't trump regional antagonism alone. There's more at at stake. I like the Iowa-Iowa St game, don't get me wrong. I just don't understand how people can argue that it makes no difference if it's in or out of conference. You separate Michigan and Ohio St or Auburn and Alabama conference-wise and it totally changes the deal. Look at what happened with Nebraska-Oklahoma just by breaking up the divisions.

All very valid points. For me, I look at the Iowa/Iowa State game as not only a rivalry for them, but a battle of 2 different conferences. It may not mean much, but when non-con schools play, their conference pride is at stake too. Of course, that may not be as good as playing for the division/conference. But, personally, I don't find it any less exciting. I have enjoyed the Missouri/Illinois rivalry for that reason.

Also, several of those quoted above are not rivalries.

True. Just like Kansas/Colorado, which I only mentioned because KU is willing to play Colorado in the non-con, but not Mizzou.