Slate: Why St. Louis should move to Illinois

Want to talk about your favorite places besides Kansas City? Post any development news or questions about other cities here.
IraGlacialis
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Re: Slate: Why St. Louis should move to Illinois

Post by IraGlacialis »

The funny thing is that many southern Illinois residents would rather be Missouri ones. And as mentioned, having STL join Illinois would not work in its favor.

The issue with this city-state dream is that it's not like KC and STL are unique among American cities or even those in other countries; I can assure you it's certainly not the worst. Anyplace that has population centers will inevitably cause a division between those areas and the rural ones.
Frankly, despite any troublesome political issues and as hippy-dippy-idealistic as it may sound, I think the state offers great things from both rural and urban sides. And unless your city is at an alpha tier, it should be part of a well-rounded society.
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Re: Slate: Why St. Louis should move to Illinois

Post by KCMax »

There is a troubling trend in many states where state legislatures are prohibiting cities from enacting their own laws on many issues.
IraGlacialis
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Re: Slate: Why St. Louis should move to Illinois

Post by IraGlacialis »

KCMax wrote:There is a troubling trend in many states where state legislatures are prohibiting cities from enacting their own laws on many issues.
Despite my previous point, I don't deny this either. Perhaps a side effect of cities progressing faster than their rural counterparts (including the trend of people moving from the latter to the former), as well as poverty being common in rural areas, leads to a Tall Poppy Syndrome?
The question is how to actually address and fix the issue without demanding Balkanization (which definitely won't fix things but merely shift them around).
I guess that cities such as Chicago simply become powerful and populous enough to not just counter but dominate their legislators. So there's always that path if you can promote substantial immigration.
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Re: Slate: Why St. Louis should move to Illinois

Post by FangKC »

It also comes down to education. A large part of the rural population doesn't advance past a high-school education--if that. In fact, in a lot of areas, the anti-education sentiment is very high, as well as the resentment factor. This is the hotbed of the anti-science, anti-intellectualism streak that is running through our country right now. With it, you get a less sophisticated population often incapable of understanding complex social issues, or politics in general.

This population is also not interested in furthering education on their own--even without college. They don't read and educate themselves out of the simple joy of learning. If you live in rural areas, and do that, you often are socially-cut off from the rest of the town.

Because of a lack of critical thinking skills, they can be easily manipulated, and it's easy to stoke their hatred and resentments.

They are suspicious of anyone with more education than they have. They don't believe in science because, quite frankly, they don't understand it.

This is a very real phenomenon. It's how Rex Sinquefield accomplished having the entire state vote on making KC and STL vote regularly to renew their own earnings taxes. Rural voters were allowed to chime in on that, even though it's really not their business. This appealed to their anti-city resentments, and willingness to stick it to cities.

I grew up in a rural town and intimately know the motivations and fears of the people I grew up with. I was brought up that same way they have been. The only difference is that I was able to go to college, earn a degree, and have enough social mobility to move away and experience the actual world.

When I return to visit, and spend any time hearing the beliefs and attitudes of my family and former townspeople, I often have to sit quietly and endure it. The level of ignorance is often disturbing to me. I can't fault them, and I do understand where it comes from. However, I can't count myself among them.

One of the biggest sources of resentment is that anyone who had the ability to leave, does. Once you have left, a barrier goes up that you can rarely cross again.

I read this article yesterday, and it pretty much explains it.

http://tinyurl.com/l7w6sox
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Re: Slate: Why St. Louis should move to Illinois

Post by ztonyg »

FangKC wrote:It also comes down to education. A large part of the rural population doesn't advance past a high-school education--if that. In fact, in a lot of areas, the anti-education sentiment is very high, as well as the resentment factor. This is the hotbed of the anti-science, anti-intellectualism streak that is running through our country right now. With it, you get a less sophisticated population often incapable of understanding complex social issues, or politics in general.

This population is also not interested in furthering education on their own--even without college. They don't read and educate themselves out of the simple joy of learning. If you live in rural areas, and do that, you often are socially-cut off from the rest of the town.

Because of a lack of critical thinking skills, they can be easily manipulated, and it's easy to stoke their hatred and resentments.

They are suspicious of anyone with more education than they have. They don't believe in science because, quite frankly, they don't understand it.

This is a very real phenomenon. It's how Rex Sinquefield accomplished having the entire state vote on making KC and STL vote regularly to renew their own earnings taxes. Rural voters were allowed to chime in on that, even though it's really not their business. This appealed to their anti-city resentments, and willingness to stick it to cities.

I grew up in a rural town and intimately know the motivations and fears of the people I grew up with. I was brought up that same way they have been. The only difference is that I was able to go to college, earn a degree, and have enough social mobility to move away and experience the actual world.

When I return to visit, and spend any time hearing the beliefs and attitudes of my family and former townspeople, I often have to sit quietly and endure it. The level of ignorance is often disturbing to me. I can't fault them, and I do understand where it comes from. However, I can't count myself among them.

One of the biggest sources of resentment is that anyone who had the ability to leave, does. Once you have left, a barrier goes up that you can rarely cross again.

I read this article yesterday, and it pretty much explains it.

http://tinyurl.com/l7w6sox
I agree completely. Educated people, by and large, live in a completely different world than uneducated people.
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Re: Slate: Why St. Louis should move to Illinois

Post by IraGlacialis »

FangKC wrote:It also comes down to education. A large part of the rural population doesn't advance past a high-school education--if that. In fact, in a lot of areas, the anti-education sentiment is very high, as well as the resentment factor. This is the hotbed of the anti-science, anti-intellectualism streak that is running through our country right now. With it, you get a less sophisticated population often incapable of understanding complex social issues, or politics in general.

This population is also not interested in furthering education on their own--even without college. They don't read and educate themselves out of the simple joy of learning. If you live in rural areas, and do that, you often are socially-cut off from the rest of the town.

Because of a lack of critical thinking skills, they can be easily manipulated, and it's easy to stoke their hatred and resentments.
Yeah, I noticed that trend as well.
Of course, the problem is that, be you in a rural or inner city area, trying to drag them kicking and screaming (as you mention with the point about social ostracism of those who are considered "nerdy", there does have to be some dragging) into enlightenment leads leads to further resentment of perceived "outsiders meddling around in business that's not theirs".
Granted, I guess if the younger generation does learn something in the process, the bleating of the older one could be rendered moot within a few decades.
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