Closed Bars and Restaurants

[WSPanic]

100% serious question.

[mean]

What is the difference between Lee's Summit and Overland Park? 100% serious question.

About 100,000 people.

[chrizow]

I have a good friend that grew up in Lee's Summit and I would describe his family as "redneck rich."  Very rural MO Ozarks family but still driving SLKs living in a McMansion. I get that.

you pretty much are touching on it here.  LS (and blue springs, etc.) have become more upscale suburbs recently, but i do think there is a distinctly more "country" tinge to the folks there generally.  sure, there are your typical doctors and lawyers and middle managers, etc., but my unscientific impression of east jackson co. money is that it tends to be more of your tradesperson/entrepreneur-made good (drywallers, roofers, or ray adams types) who are more likely to spend their ample coin on a top-model F250 and a $1,200 grill to cook price chopper burgers on than wagyu burgers and truffle fries.  not that there is anything wrong with this.

it's also a huge haul from LS and BS to downtown or college blvd (where probably 90% of high-earning jobs are), so i really don't think you get as many white collar types out there as in the Plaza/BKS/JoCo axis.  as an anecdotal illustration of this, i work at a huge law firm and i cannot think of a single attorney, of any age, who lives in eastern jackson county.  we no doubt have a few, but 95% are in the plaza/BKS/JoCo axis, with a few up north and a few wherever else.  the lawyers in lee's summit wear cowboy boots.  (i'm only sort of kidding - and i also am not saying there is anything wrong with this.)

don't get me wrong, there are plenty of Chili's-eating, Dockers-wearing squares in JoCo, but i do think that it's clear that JoCo is a more sophisticated "foodie"type area than east jackson county.  this is evident from the simple fact that Blanc was, indeed, the most "foodie" (for what that's worth) place i can think of in east jack whereas at any given time JoCo has at least a few spots that are interesting, to say nothing of the plethora of international eats and groceries out there.  

[chingon]

OP is where KU graduates go to get fat and raise kids; LS is where MU UCM graduates with MU gear plastered all over their SUVs/houses/children go to get fat and raise kids.

corrected.

[warwickland]

In my limited experience, the difference I've noticed between the spawn of upper middle class JoCoers and upper middle class Lee Summiters is that the folks from LS seem more likely to be into GUNS and/or PHRACKING (or whatever), and maybe anything else to a slight extreme - WEED, METAL, whatever. I'm not really even saying that they seem any more redneck in mannerism, although that could be. Many people seem to be as quick to want to pronounce upper middle class in Lees Summit as south JoCo - at least during the time period that I had an inordinate number of connections to the area.

[aknowledgeableperson]

What is the difference between Lee's Summit and Overland Park? 100% serious question.

1. College Blvd
2. OP population in 2008 - 173,000, LS 2008 population 84,000
3. OP median family income - $91,000, LS median family income $70,000

Beyond that not much difference.

[MoMan]

1. College Blvd
2. OP population in 2008 - 173,000, LS 2008 population 84,000
3. OP median family income - $91,000, LS median family income $70,000

Beyond that not much difference.

According to the city-data.com Web site, the median household income for Lee's Summit in 2009 was $74,437.  It was $68,519 for Overland Park.

So Overland Park has more office buildings and more people, but Lee's Summit has wealthier residents.

[shinatoo]

I now live i Lees Summit and am too fat to fit in my jorts, and my kids don't play soccer. That said, the big difference that I see is a more KC friendly attitude in Lees Summit, a lot fewer non natives. Most people from out of town tend to locate in JoCo where Lees Summit people tend to be from the area. There are a lot of "country" people in Lees Summit, whether you want to call that red neck or not is up to you. For example the Sanders Rail Plan would probably pass by a wide margin in Lee's Summit where a similar plan wouldn't in JoCo. There is also a larger African American presence in Lee's Summit. Many Many people that grew up in Raytown and South KC. Blue Springs is more Redneck and Independence origin.

I don't thin B2 gave it long enough. That shopping center still hasn't entrenched itself out here. Summit Crossing (across the highway) is more connected with the community and is always busy, Summit Fair where B2 was is kind of isolated and is still being built out. It's main tenants, Macy's and JCPenneys, don't attract the same about of traffic as Best Buy, Target and Lowes. But that should all change.

B2 was always busy when I went so I am befuddled as to why they couldn't make it. They didn't have frontage on any well traveled route so I don't think a lot of people even new they were there. Plus I only new they moved in by word of mouth, i never saw any kind of marketing whatsoever. You had to be going to Penney's and happen to look over from whatever road that is to even see them.

I get a much greater Redneck/white trash vibe from Blue Springs.

[aknowledgeableperson]

According to the city-data.com Web site, the median household income for Lee's Summit in 2009 was $74,437.  It was $68,519 for Overland Park.

So Overland Park has more office buildings and more people, but Lee's Summit has wealthier residents.

I used family instead of household.

From wiki:

According to a 2007 estimate, the median income for a household in the city was $70,405, and the median income for a family was $91,806.[12]

12.^ http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/AC ... _industry=

For LS it was

According to a 2007 estimate, the median income for a household in the city was $71,821, and the median income for a family was $82,737

So I need to change my number from $70,000 to $83,000.


Question:  Difference between "household" and "family"?

[trailerkid]

Rumors going around town (on Summit Fair facebook page) that Blanc is financially over-extended. Remember they opened the Plaza store & the Lee's Summit store this year as well as ongoing construction of the Omaha store. the Omaha store's expected opening is already 4 months behind schedule of the previous November 2010 opening date. i'm starting to get some JP Wine Bar deja vu.

Interesting that the announced Little Rock-area Blanc location (in an RED mall remarkably similar to Summit Fair) was cancelled even after filing construction documents with the city. Evidently, this location was part of a franchisee agreement.

Trouble in paradise?

[mean]

I'd be pretty surprised if what you're suggesting wasn't pretty much precisely the case, based on what we're seeing. Obviously, businesses which start up and expand that rapidly without inadvertently shooting their own faces off are the exception to the rule. Even worse is trying to rapidly expand a business which may or may not be based on a short term fad.

[jchgh2]

I've only been to Blanc once but felt ripped off.  The food was ok, but it sure as hell wasn't worth the price (this was early on before price went up everywhere)

[dangerboy]

Rumors going around town (on Summit Fair facebook page) that Blanc is financially over-extended. Remember they opened the Plaza store & the Lee's Summit store this year as well as ongoing construction of the Omaha store.

Not surprisingly when you're trying to build a chain without investors.

[grovester]

I've only been to Blanc once but felt ripped off.  The food was ok, but it sure as hell wasn't worth the price (this was early on before price went up everywhere)

Food was only worth the price with the ambience of the Westport location.  Not flying in the burbs.

[trailerkid]

Not surprisingly when you're trying to build a chain without investors.

Really? 

I think Joyce Smith's reporting was pretty lazy and simplistic. No background info on the chain trying to open 4 new stores in one year or the fact Little Rock was dropped or the fact the Omaha store is behind schedule. How can you open 4 new stores without any investment money? How long does it take for a restaurant to become profitable and pay for your store anyway? I'm guessing a lot longer than Lee's Summit location was open. Then Jenny Vergara or whatever her name is chimes in on the Blanc page saying there's no use "beating a dead horse" in Lee's Summit so they can concentrate on the Omaha store. Huh? Whatever happened to trying to run a good, sustainable business? Sounds like they don't have much business sense.

[mean]

Whatever happened to trying to run a good, sustainable business? Sounds like they don't have much business sense.

I'd like to believe this isn't true, but given what we know, it seems pretty obvious.

[Pancho_and_Lefty]

Good riddance.  B2 and Blanc's is probably the most overblown and overhyped concept/restaurant in the metro.  What is so sophisticated about what boils down to hamburger joint made to look like an IKEA show room.  The atmosphere sucked and at Blanc's downtown you can't even get free refills on soda. 

LS residents appreciate quality...we just didn't see any when it came to this restaurant.  The sushi/japanese/thai place next to it is a different story...that place rocks.

[Pancho_and_Lefty]

Also, as an educated, white collar accountant living in Lee's Summit I can tell you that there are many a folk in this town who are just as educated, smart, and sophisticated as anywhere else in the metro.

[smh]

Good riddance.  B2 and Blanc's is probably the most overblown and overhyped concept/restaurant in the metro

That's a pretty bold statement. I quite enjoy the Plaza location, though I don't make it down there too often. I loved the Westport location.

Also, as a side note, I enjoy that you refer to it as the downtown location. That sort of plays into discussions had elsewhere on the forum about how some who don't live in the city view the whole Plaza-River corridor as downtown. My parents feel the same way. They're from Branson.

[Jess]

I now live i Lees Summit and am too fat to fit in my jorts, and my kids don't play soccer. That said, the big difference that I see is a more KC friendly attitude in Lees Summit, a lot fewer non natives. Most people from out of town tend to locate in JoCo where Lees Summit people tend to be from the area. There are a lot of "country" people in Lees Summit, whether you want to call that red neck or not is up to you. For example the Sanders Rail Plan would probably pass by a wide margin in Lee's Summit where a similar plan wouldn't in JoCo. There is also a larger African American presence in Lee's Summit. Many Many people that grew up in Raytown and South KC. Blue Springs is more Redneck and Independence origin.

I don't thin B2 gave it long enough. That shopping center still hasn't entrenched itself out here. Summit Crossing (across the highway) is more connected with the community and is always busy, Summit Fair where B2 was is kind of isolated and is still being built out. It's main tenants, Macy's and JCPenneys, don't attract the same about of traffic as Best Buy, Target and Lowes. But that should all change.

B2 was always busy when I went so I am befuddled as to why they couldn't make it. They didn't have frontage on any well traveled route so I don't think a lot of people even new they were there. Plus I only new they moved in by word of mouth, i never saw any kind of marketing whatsoever. You had to be going to Penney's and happen to look over from whatever road that is to even see them.

I get a much greater Redneck/white trash vibe from Blue Springs.

I agree with your assessment of b:2 and possible marketing/visibility issues in Lee's Summit. I live in LS (though we haven't been issued our jorts or soccer match seat cushions yet), and having been familiar with the Blanc concept from when we lived near their original Westport location, we patronized the place, gave them favorable word of mouth despite the stupid pricing.  When they opened, hardly anything else in Summit Fair WAS open, retail-wise, so it wasn't a particular destination.  It's just in recent months starting to get a hint of traffic, with the opening of more tenants' storefronts (however, several more dining options have opened, as well...yes, dreaded chains, all, but also probably more cost-effective, and therefore, competition).  I don't know how you locate in a tucked-away pocket of a very much still-under-development shopping area that's not on a main drag, do virtually no advertising, and expect that people will know you're there.  But even at this rate, I never ate there a time when it wasn't packed, and it reviewed very well.  While the price points may have caused eye rolls (and they did at the original and Plaza sites, as well), it certainly wasn't too overpriced for the average person in LS who dines out, or out of bounds with the pricing for other area non-fast food or diner restaurants. I don't think I'm buying the whole "it was losing money, people just didn't patronize the place" rationale...and most of the reporting I've read on it hints at other issues. I've read a bit on other forums that hint at management problems, and the potential financial overextension that others on here mention, and certainly playing with the branding was a misstep, which they seem to have acknowledged.  Dunno, but it certainly didn't seem poised to fail, nor did it seem to neglect to draw a regular customer base.  

As for the perceived hillbilly culture of Lee's Summit, we moved to the community from Kansas City, ourselves, and haven't noticed any higher a skank quotient than where we lived in Waldo (a little less raping, though).  We live near downtown, not in a newer subdivision, and most of our neighbors are people who've lived here there whole lives, not transplants, though we are.  The whole "people in Lee's Summit aren't sophisticated enough to support a 'posh' urban concept, or anything but a chain" thing holds little water with me...for one thing, it's hard to make an argument that burgers and fries and beer are the epitome of posh, no matter how much truffle oil you douse them with...still just humble ground beef and fried food.  For another, its suburban outpost of SPIN! Pizza seems to have made the "urban haunt goes suburban satellite" move go fairly decently.  And for yet another, locally-owned "boutique" concepts of all kinds actually DO fly in Lee's Summit and see a GREAT DEAL of community support...they just have had the sense to locate in the successful downtown, which is groomed for that sort of thing, and not in suburban lifestyle centers, flanked by Olive Garden and Noodles and Co. and the like.