trailerkid wrote:
the parking is excessive and the reason why the project is a joke.
It's not excessive for a hotel and apartments of this size. Sadly there is not enough transit at this spot to constrain the parking, especially considering KU Med employees already consume most of the street parking that would normally be available for overflow.
The project is only joke to people who spend way too much time trying to be cynical about everything. While it's not perfect, it's certainly progress for KCK. Dismissing it is the real joke.
dangerboy wrote:
It's not excessive for a hotel and apartments of this size. Sadly there is not enough transit at this spot to constrain the parking, especially considering KU Med employees already consume most of the street parking that would normally be available for overflow.
you trot out the tired "it's better than what's there now" defense. no one is arguing that, but if you're going to do a $35 M project and take $6 M in public funding don't build a strip mall with a huge parking lot in the back. why is structured parking and expanding the footprint of the building not an option? i'm guessing this might even be an attractive project for a full service hotel like Westin or Hilton instead of a likely Holiday Inn or whatever. Demand more.
it's funny how the PS building on the Plaza is open to endless debate (which is a much better project adding no new parking, no tax incentives, adding density, and LEED standards) but this garbage which is getting public funding as well as a CID isn't even open to design criticism.
Last edited by trailerkid on Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Demand more with your own cash. Why don't you sink millions into an experiment where all the people who are going to stay at the new hotel can't park. Many of the KU med patients come from rural areas around the Midwest. Imagine coming to town with your sick loved one to a reservation at a hotel across the street from the hospital and there is no where to park. Maybe more bike parking would help the hotel visitor - I hear a biking from Garden City, KS to KCK is nice in July or February, especially with a cancer patient in tow.
the project is getting PUBLIC FINANCING. so "my cash" if I live/shop in WyCo is going to a giant parking lot. why is structured parking out of the question? maybe the $6 M in taxpayer money should go into parking that isn't wasteful, unsafe and future blight.
trailerkid wrote:
the project is getting PUBLIC FINANCING. so "my cash" if I live/shop in WyCo is going to a giant parking lot. why is structured parking out of the question? maybe the $6 M in taxpayer money should go into parking that isn't wasteful, unsafe and future blight.
I see your point, but I don't get the ire over having the parking tucked in back. Its certainly better than the usual suburban model of putting it up front, and its not like having the parking in back is disturbing the urban fabric of the area behind it - its just a bunch of apartment units with - surface parking lots. I guess I'm more concerned with making Rainbow first a dense pedestrian-oriented avenue, and less concerned about the auxilary streets for now. First things first.
trailerkid wrote:
it's funny how the PS building on the Plaza is open to endless debate (which is a much better project adding no new parking, no tax incentives, adding density, and LEED standards) but this garbage which is getting public funding as well as a CID isn't even open to design criticism.
Easy - one involves demolition in an already dense, vibrant, and historic setting with a project that could very well be a significant downgrade from the status qou - while the other invovles demolition of suburban strip crap that could be mistaken for virtually any freeway exit ramp in America with a replacement that couldn't possibly be worse than whats there.
If you are at all familiar with the plan, they are doing one level of below grade parking on the southwest corner - hiding over 80 spaces. With the rest of the lot over that. Going any more vertical would cost way too much for the potential revenue on the site. A parking structure can cost $10k to $20k per slot depending on the structure chosen and the skin put on it. This site is relatively small for those numbers and barley works well enough from a return standpoint to generate an equity investor.
Then again, profit and / or incentive to build is not your concern. In fairy land, everyone just does what the futurist punditry wants and we all share the costs and benefits equally. La la la la lalala...
Hurst wrote:
Then again, profit and / or incentive to build is not your concern. In fairy land, everyone just does what the futurist punditry wants and we all share the costs and benefits equally. La la la la lalala...
When you take public handouts in a very high profile location...YES!
Lost in the wilderness aren't you. Can you even balance a checkbook? The public revenue added to the site is to do some of things that can't be done otherwise - it does not turn a project into a not-for-profit venture. If that is the goal then you would never have any new development other than government growth. In case you missed the class, private enterprise is driven by profit - even if you think profit is not important. You can push your idealistic way and get all of nothing.
Hurst wrote:
Lost in the wilderness aren't you. Can you even balance a checkbook? The public revenue added to the site is to do some of things that can't be done otherwise - it does not turn a project into a not-for-profit venture. If that is the goal then you would never have any new development other than government growth. In case you missed the class, private enterprise is driven by profit - even if you think profit is not important. You can push your idealistic way and get all of nothing.
Look at Fritzel's Oread Hotel development & the Eldridge expansion in Lawrence and then look at this mess. Take some notes. He could teach you guys some stuff about infill in a city. Lawrence has more parking issues than this stretch of 1960s fry pits could ever have.
Don't ask the public the fund your strip mall hotel and expect no critique. Do it ON YOUR OWN and I'll give you more rope to hang yourself.
trailerkid wrote:
Look at Fritzel's Oread Hotel development & the Eldridge expansion in Lawrence and then look at this mess. Take some notes. He could teach you guys some stuff about infill in a city. Lawrence has more parking issues than this stretch of 1960s fry pits could ever have.
Don't ask the public the fund your strip mall hotel and expect no critique. Do it ON YOUR OWN and I'll give you more rope to hang yourself.
I don't think the financial feasibility of building a hotel on Mass Street in Lawrence and one near Memorial Stadium is quite the same as the financial feasibility as a building at 39th and Rainbow in this economy.
trailerkid wrote:
Don't ask the public the fund your strip mall hotel and expect no critique. Do it ON YOUR OWN and I'll give you more rope to hang yourself.
KCMax wrote:
I don't think the financial feasibility of building a hotel on Mass Street in Lawrence and one near Memorial Stadium is quite the same as the financial feasibility as a building at 39th and Rainbow in this economy.
so you're arguing 39th/Rainbow with a major hospital, med school, nursing school and 8,000 employees adjoining is a less desirable opportunity than 12/Oread or 7th/Mass for a hotel?
Do it ON YOUR OWN and I'll give you more rope to hang yourself.
A couple points and I will stop arguing with the fence post:
1) You won't give anybody anything - it is obvious by your comments that you control nothing of significance and have never had P & L responsibility for anything so I am sure you are not a decision maker wherever it is you work, play, volunteer, etc.
2) It is not my project but I do know that KCK, KU and most of the surrounding property owners are very happy and excited with this potential upgrade to the area.
3) There is plenty of rope to hang yourself in real estate in this economy anyway.
trailerkid wrote:
so you're arguing 39th/Rainbow with a major hospital, med school, nursing school and 8,000 employees adjoining is a less desirable opportunity than 12/Oread or 7th/Mass for a hotel?
There is a great population for 39th to draw from, but its still speculative as to whether this development can draw them. OTOH, we already KNOW Mass Street is a bustling vibrant area with many shoppers/diners with disposable dollars.
Look at the area around 39th and Rainbow. Its payday lenders and cell phone stores. Its fast food stores. There's a reason for that. Look at Mass Street. It has Asian fusion restaurants, sushi places and a microbrew. There's a reason for that. Mass Street is already built. Its what Rainbow is TRYING to be. I don't know why you'd apply the same standard to both.
And then there's the current economy which has just made every development that much harder. You're comparing apples to elephants.
KCMax wrote:
There is a great population for 39th to draw from, but its still speculative as to whether this development can draw them. OTOH, we already KNOW Mass Street is a bustling vibrant area with many shoppers/diners with disposable dollars.
Look at the area around 39th and Rainbow. Its payday lenders and cell phone stores. Its fast food stores. There's a reason for that. Look at Mass Street. It has Asian fusion restaurants, sushi places and a microbrew. There's a reason for that. Mass Street is already built. Its what Rainbow is TRYING to be. I don't know why you'd apply the same standard to both.
And then there's the current economy which has just made every development that much harder. You're comparing apples to elephants.
i'm waiting for the comparison to 12th/Oread which is in the KU ghetto.
the oread expansion btw is on top of a parking lot which has been vacant for decades now.
KCMax wrote:
There is a great population for 39th to draw from, but its still speculative as to whether this development can draw them. OTOH, we already KNOW Mass Street is a bustling vibrant area with many shoppers/diners with disposable dollars.
Look at the area around 39th and Rainbow. Its payday lenders and cell phone stores. Its fast food stores. There's a reason for that. Look at Mass Street. It has Asian fusion restaurants, sushi places and a microbrew. There's a reason for that. Mass Street is already built. Its what Rainbow is TRYING to be. I don't know why you'd apply the same standard to both.
And then there's the current economy which has just made every development that much harder. You're comparing apples to elephants.
Not to mention that for the 8k faculty/staff/etc. (no idea if TK's # is remotely credible or not) you would be comparing to 20k+students and however many thousand faculty and staff - probably at least tripple the head count.
LenexatoKCMO wrote:
Not to mention that for the 8k faculty/staff/etc. (no idea if TK's # is remotely credible or not) you would be comparing to 20k+students and however many thousand faculty and staff - probably at least tripple the head count.
do you want me to expand my footprint to include Volker, Westport, I-35 access, the Plaza which would all be parts of the bigger picture for this property?
trailerkid wrote:
do you want me to expand my footprint to include Volker, Westport, I-35 access, the Plaza which would all be parts of the bigger picture for this property?
You mean the additional competition? Those are all established areas this development will have to compete with - its only real advantage is proximity.
