Bluhawk

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mgsports
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Re: Bluhawk

Post by mgsports » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:53 pm

Their's other Outlet stores not in KC area yet that ar new by.

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Re: Bluhawk

Post by joshmv » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:12 am

mistervinix wrote:They keep scaling back this thing:

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/de ... 5m-phase-1

An article in today's Star says the Cosmophere will be added "in a later phase." Boy, is that a common theme with these projects. The museum also seems smaller than in earlier versions. I remember a drawing of it that showed a mockup of a Saturn V outside the museum.

The main project also will feature an "outlet center." Because that worked so well in Olathe at the Great Mall.

We'll see in another 10 years...
The cosmosphere was originally planned to be around 60,000 sq. ft. and now it's 40,000 which is slightly smaller than the already small museum at Prairie Fire. I'm not expecting much out of it but chances are the plans will change again before they start on that phase. The same goes for the outlet center. It's hard to criticize shrinking or changing retail space plans in the current climate.

The trend of half-ass developments around KC are infuriating to me, and Bluhawk may not be any different but I don't really dislike anything about the upcoming phase. The multi-sport complex "Sport Stable" sounds great and if it's really 300,000 sq. ft. that's huge. The one in Denver is well reviewed and is about 175,000 sq. ft. You can see more about it on page 7 of their new press kit...

http://bluhawk.poweredbyfmg.com/wp-cont ... 2-18-4.pdf

I'm sure Lamar Hunt is happy there's still a focus on youth hockey, training, and other ice sports.

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Re: Bluhawk

Post by GRID » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:21 pm

The only reason this development has the cosmosphere is to get STAR bonds and if they reduce the size of the cosmosphere, that's more STAR bond money that can go to other parts of the project. It's the same exact thing as Prairie Fire. They are only adding these things to get the STAR bonds which not only pay for the little museums, but much of the rest of the project.

This project is a total joke. JoCo is overbuilt as it is with retail and when you factor in the Speedway area and the changes occurring with brick and mortar retail, this is a retarded project and it's even more retarded that it's mostly funded by tax money. Yet still even in 2018 after all money that KS has wasted on other STAR projects and the poaching of KCMO companies using PEAK incentives combined with the Brownback experiment almost nobody cares or will protest this project. People will protest it for being too dense, but they won't care about the corporate welfare part of it. These same people will loudly comment on social media that KC is wasting money on the P&L district incentive though.

If it's built, it will likely kill the Legends STAR bonded outlet mall which doesn't have the demographics to compete is something comparable opens in JoCo.

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Re: Bluhawk

Post by mgsports » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:07 pm

Good maybe they will get some Drive-Thru's. Maybe Belk and so on.

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Re: Bluhawk

Post by joshmv » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:02 pm

GRID wrote:The only reason this development has the cosmosphere is to get STAR bonds and if they reduce the size of the cosmosphere, that's more STAR bond money that can go to other parts of the project. It's the same exact thing as Prairie Fire. They are only adding these things to get the STAR bonds which not only pay for the little museums, but much of the rest of the project.

This project is a total joke. JoCo is overbuilt as it is with retail and when you factor in the Speedway area and the changes occurring with brick and mortar retail, this is a retarded project and it's even more retarded that it's mostly funded by tax money. Yet still even in 2018 after all money that KS has wasted on other STAR projects and the poaching of KCMO companies using PEAK incentives combined with the Brownback experiment almost nobody cares or will protest this project. People will protest it for being too dense, but they won't care about the corporate welfare part of it. These same people will loudly comment on social media that KC is wasting money on the P&L district incentive though.

If it's built, it will likely kill the Legends STAR bonded outlet mall which doesn't have the demographics to compete is something comparable opens in JoCo.

:lol: ya, I'm sure BluHawk is going to kill Legends who paid off their STAR bonds 5 years early. Your Kansas bashing has gotten lazy and nonsensical, any chance you can take it back to city-data?

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Re: Bluhawk

Post by GRID » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:29 pm

joshmv wrote:
GRID wrote:The only reason this development has the cosmosphere is to get STAR bonds and if they reduce the size of the cosmosphere, that's more STAR bond money that can go to other parts of the project. It's the same exact thing as Prairie Fire. They are only adding these things to get the STAR bonds which not only pay for the little museums, but much of the rest of the project.

This project is a total joke. JoCo is overbuilt as it is with retail and when you factor in the Speedway area and the changes occurring with brick and mortar retail, this is a retarded project and it's even more retarded that it's mostly funded by tax money. Yet still even in 2018 after all money that KS has wasted on other STAR projects and the poaching of KCMO companies using PEAK incentives combined with the Brownback experiment almost nobody cares or will protest this project. People will protest it for being too dense, but they won't care about the corporate welfare part of it. These same people will loudly comment on social media that KC is wasting money on the P&L district incentive though.

If it's built, it will likely kill the Legends STAR bonded outlet mall which doesn't have the demographics to compete is something comparable opens in JoCo.

:lol: ya, I'm sure BluHawk is going to kill Legends who paid off their STAR bonds 5 years early. Your Kansas bashing has gotten lazy and nonsensical, any chance you can take it back to city-data?
Haha, Doesn't matter if the bonds have been paid off or not, it's still a retail project mostly funded by Kansas tax dollars that will be heavily impacted by another project seeking the same tenants that will also be heavily funded by Kansas tax payers. You can almost justify the use of STAR bonds near the speedway to jump start an area in desperate need of investment. But if you don't think STAR bonding these projects in JoCo, especially this one, is ridiculous, then it's no wonder you don't like my posts and it's no wonder you are fine with Kansas corporate welfare. : :lol:

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Re: Bluhawk

Post by brewcrew1000 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:11 pm

Looks like Bluhawk Hockey Arena might end up being a bust and Price Brothers are going after the Great Mall Site for a Hockey Arena/Redevelopment. I'm starting to think these Price Brothers guys are a bunch of Con Artists just chasing Star Bonds from City to City

https://www.kansascity.com/news/politic ... 10595.html

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Re: Bluhawk

Post by WSPanic » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:53 pm

brewcrew1000 wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:11 pm
Looks like Bluhawk Hockey Arena might end up being a bust and Price Brothers are going after the Great Mall Site for a Hockey Arena/Redevelopment. I'm starting to think these Price Brothers guys are a bunch of Con Artists just chasing Star Bonds from City to City

https://www.kansascity.com/news/politic ... 10595.html
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it sounds like the Price Bros. are working with Bluhawk, but it's a different group (Woodbury Corp) that's going after the Great Mall. It's a race to free money!

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Re: Bluhawk

Post by brewcrew1000 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:11 pm

Yeah, your right, i read that wrong, i was just assuming Price Brothers was going after both sites with the same plan. It looks like this new group does mainly projects out of Salt Lake City

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Re: Bluhawk

Post by empires228 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:27 am

joshmv wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:12 am
mistervinix wrote:They keep scaling back this thing:

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/de ... 5m-phase-1

An article in today's Star says the Cosmophere will be added "in a later phase." Boy, is that a common theme with these projects. The museum also seems smaller than in earlier versions. I remember a drawing of it that showed a mockup of a Saturn V outside the museum.

The main project also will feature an "outlet center." Because that worked so well in Olathe at the Great Mall.

We'll see in another 10 years...
The cosmosphere was originally planned to be around 60,000 sq. ft. and now it's 40,000 which is slightly smaller than the already small museum at Prairie Fire. I'm not expecting much out of it but chances are the plans will change again before they start on that phase. The same goes for the outlet center. It's hard to criticize shrinking or changing retail space plans in the current climate.

The trend of half-ass developments around KC are infuriating to me, and Bluhawk may not be any different but I don't really dislike anything about the upcoming phase. The multi-sport complex "Sport Stable" sounds great and if it's really 300,000 sq. ft. that's huge. The one in Denver is well reviewed and is about 175,000 sq. ft. You can see more about it on page 7 of their new press kit...

http://bluhawk.poweredbyfmg.com/wp-cont ... 2-18-4.pdf

I'm sure Lamar Hunt is happy there's still a focus on youth hockey, training, and other ice sports.
http://www.hutchnews.com/news/20190129/ ... evelopment

And now the cosmosphere completely pulled out of the project.
GRID wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:29 pm
joshmv wrote:
GRID wrote:The only reason this development has the cosmosphere is to get STAR bonds and if they reduce the size of the cosmosphere, that's more STAR bond money that can go to other parts of the project. It's the same exact thing as Prairie Fire. They are only adding these things to get the STAR bonds which not only pay for the little museums, but much of the rest of the project.

This project is a total joke. JoCo is overbuilt as it is with retail and when you factor in the Speedway area and the changes occurring with brick and mortar retail, this is a retarded project and it's even more retarded that it's mostly funded by tax money. Yet still even in 2018 after all money that KS has wasted on other STAR projects and the poaching of KCMO companies using PEAK incentives combined with the Brownback experiment almost nobody cares or will protest this project. People will protest it for being too dense, but they won't care about the corporate welfare part of it. These same people will loudly comment on social media that KC is wasting money on the P&L district incentive though.

If it's built, it will likely kill the Legends STAR bonded outlet mall which doesn't have the demographics to compete is something comparable opens in JoCo.

:lol: ya, I'm sure BluHawk is going to kill Legends who paid off their STAR bonds 5 years early. Your Kansas bashing has gotten lazy and nonsensical, any chance you can take it back to city-data?
Haha, Doesn't matter if the bonds have been paid off or not, it's still a retail project mostly funded by Kansas tax dollars that will be heavily impacted by another project seeking the same tenants that will also be heavily funded by Kansas tax payers. You can almost justify the use of STAR bonds near the speedway to jump start an area in desperate need of investment. But if you don't think STAR bonding these projects in JoCo, especially this one, is ridiculous, then it's no wonder you don't like my posts and it's no wonder you are fine with Kansas corporate welfare. : :lol:
I tend to see quite a few more people from Missouri at the legends then from Kansas. There’s always a fair amount of people from Nebraska there too. Most of the Kansas plates of their are from outside of Johnson and Wyandotte County.

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Re: Bluhawk

Post by GRID » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:10 am

So now you have two STAR bond projects in JoCo basically competing against each other. The Bluehawk and the Great Mall redevelopment. Both trying hard to find something, anything, that they can say is a "destination" so they can build out these projects in outer suburbia with tax revenue rather than private investment. It really does not get more comical than this.

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Re: Bluhawk

Post by mistervinix » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:37 am

GRID wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:10 am
So now you have two STAR bond projects in JoCo basically competing against each other. The Bluehawk and the Great Mall redevelopment. Both trying hard to find something, anything, that they can say is a "destination" so they can build out these projects in outer suburbia with tax revenue rather than private investment. It really does not get more comical than this.
Time to revisit the Legoland or World Of Oz ideas...

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Re: Bluhawk

Post by GRID » Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:48 am

mistervinix wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:37 am
GRID wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:10 am
So now you have two STAR bond projects in JoCo basically competing against each other. The Bluehawk and the Great Mall redevelopment. Both trying hard to find something, anything, that they can say is a "destination" so they can build out these projects in outer suburbia with tax revenue rather than private investment. It really does not get more comical than this.
Time to revisit the Legoland or World Of Oz ideas...
Yes, at least those are true destinations. However, it seems like KC has lost a lot of it's super regional tourism draw that it had in the 70's and 80's. Do people from Omaha, Wichita, Des Moines etc still come to KC as often as they used to? Like Worlds of Fun for example. They don't seem to draw near the crowds they used to and the park has not kept up with other mid sized amusement parks. Attendance is low enough they don't get very many new rides and Cedar Point blows it off for the most part, even though it's a nice small park.

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Re: Bluhawk

Post by mgsports » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:43 am

Places it can go North OP,Shawnee,KCK,Olathe Gateway phase 2.

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Re: Bluhawk

Post by empires228 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:37 am

mgsports wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:43 am
Places it can go North OP,Shawnee,KCK,Olathe Gateway phase 2.
I don't know what you're excited for, but if you're talking about the Cosmosphere, then it's unlikely the Cosmosphere is going to build a satellite location elsewhere in Johnson County since they couldn't make the financials work even with it being subsidized. Hutch will StarBond it to keep it exclusive before that ever happens.
GRID wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:48 am
mistervinix wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:37 am
GRID wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:10 am
So now you have two STAR bond projects in JoCo basically competing against each other. The Bluehawk and the Great Mall redevelopment. Both trying hard to find something, anything, that they can say is a "destination" so they can build out these projects in outer suburbia with tax revenue rather than private investment. It really does not get more comical than this.
Time to revisit the Legoland or World Of Oz ideas...
Yes, at least those are true destinations. However, it seems like KC has lost a lot of it's super regional tourism draw that it had in the 70's and 80's. Do people from Omaha, Wichita, Des Moines etc still come to KC as often as they used to? Like Worlds of Fun for example. They don't seem to draw near the crowds they used to and the park has not kept up with other mid sized amusement parks. Attendance is low enough they don't get very many new rides and Cedar Point blows it off for the most part, even though it's a nice small park.
Wichita is a definite yes. They're always complaining about how they need a development like Legends, or Sealife, or their own Worlds of Fun on every single news article on Facebook even when its an article about a positive change or development in the metro. Never mind the fact that if Wichita ever saw Nordstrom Rack build a store and Restoration Hardware return then KC wouldn't have much over them in terms of shopping. Long gone are the days of Bonwit Teller, Saks, and FAO Schwarz. They were supposed to see a Great Wolf Lodge copycat water park open way out on the west side of the metro, but it was canceled ages ago. It now sounds like a hotel and water park of a similar scale will be constructed by the Sedgwick County Zoo on Zoo property in an effort to boost out of state tourism. Some articles on the zoo are saying that it's now the states most popular tourist attraction, which would mean that it either passed Legends in visitors or Legends is seeing a decline in traffic now that the newness has worn off. It's stayed strong longer than anyone though and hasn't needed two shots in the arm to keep it going over the years like Zona Rosa has.

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Re: Bluhawk

Post by brewcrew1000 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:59 am

Looks like they are got Star Bonds approved for the Arena and another hockey team may be coming, lol we are just cannibalizing ourselves silly in this metro when it comes to entertainment ventures/locations

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... bonds.html

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Re: Bluhawk

Post by mgsports » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:38 am

Yes but just have Mavericks in area.

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Re: Bluhawk

Post by flyingember » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:51 am

mgsports wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:38 am
Yes but just have Mavericks in area.
Including the hockey team, attendence at the Independence arena is about 500,000 annually across about 100 events. So it's drawing about 5000 people per.

This one is estimating over 3.5 million, or 7x larger for hockey and sports. At the same level of attendence that's two events per day. Everything about the plan is unrealistic

First Hockey Arena: Sprint Center
Second Hockey Arena: Independence
Third Hockey Arena: Overland Park

And it's not the first sports center either
Kemper already is one


This is exactly what's been said, it's a developer trying to find something they can cannibalize within the region in order to get enough incentives to not need to pay for their entire project. Kansas just had to look and see there's not enough demand for the hockey arenas we already have and even if you argue there will be No cannibalizing they should know it was a bad idea.

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Re: Bluhawk

Post by mgsports » Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:39 pm

Olathe to but it and OP Youth.

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Re: Bluhawk

Post by GRID » Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:40 pm

And people still get way more worked up over using TIFs downtown while this stuff is just fine. Even though this is way way worse. Truly absurd corporate welfare in suburban greenfields. Some things never change.

And 3.5 million people are going to visit a suburban hockey arena? That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard. That's like 1.5 million MORE people than the Chiefs AND Royals draw per year. And this is in a market that already has a successful suburban arena which it will compete with.

Mind blown...

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