Oak Park Mall

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Re: Oak Park Mall

Post by flyingember »

herrfrank wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:43 pm Having high-quality public school options is a major stumbling block for core KCMO, even when the parents are open to private schooling.
So many private schools run through 8th grade so the public option is important.
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Re: Oak Park Mall

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Re: Oak Park Mall

Post by FangKC »

Need Tudor's Biscuit World.

http://tudorsbiscuitworld.com/
mgsports
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Re: Oak Park Mall

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Yes to Paris Bagette and New IHOP.
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Re: Oak Park Mall

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Yes to Tudor's Biscuit World. :lol:
empires228
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Re: Oak Park Mall

Post by empires228 »

I went to the mall today for coffee (right now actually).The second floor parking deck entrance to the Nordstrom wing has safety barricades including one that’s blocking the handicap door button because of how badly it is deteriorating and the roof has sometime over the past several months fallen out in several places because of heavy water damage. I knew there were a few spots where CBL was just throwing plaster over black mold near Dillard’s Men & Home, but the mall physically looks bad right now between the aforementioned issues and the carpeting covered in old gum and Duck tape. When I say water damage, I mean it’s prevalent even though the much younger Nordstrom wing. Part of the ceiling is down near Altar’d State.

Independence Center and Crown Center aren’t exactly pristine either, but both are in better physical condition, at least visibly, than Oak Park is right now. I know CBL is still in bankruptcy, but there have been issues reported across multiple properties the last few months. I’d they can’t afford to operate, maybe they need to liquidate…
earthling
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Re: Oak Park Mall

Post by earthling »

If OP Mall doesn't make it, some ideas for dead mall conversions that could work...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomvandera ... ty-assets/
earthling
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Re: Oak Park Mall

Post by earthling »

Said 'if' not 'when'. Not expecting it to either but with parent emerging from bankruptcy and losing Nordstoms, if they don't return solidly back on feet could sell to new owner that is experienced in mall conversions as it's now 'a thing'. Would be good candidate for new urbanism mixed use with still strong but less element of shopping.
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Re: Oak Park Mall

Post by empires228 »

Goonies wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:25 am
earthling wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:22 am If OP Mall doesn't make it, some ideas for dead mall conversions that could work...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomvandera ... ty-assets/
Oak Park isnt going to fail
I wouldn’t bet on that. It was one of the nations most profitable centers in the early 2000s and now it’s not even CBL’s best performing mall. Bringing in Nordstrom only works if you don’t chase off the likes of Talbots, Jos A Banks, Ann Taylor, J.Crew, Banana Republic, Lacoste, and Gap in return, part of which was caused by Copaken being an incompetent manager near the end. Copaken didn’t have a very good track record when they sold off Oak Park, Eastland, and Hickory Point. They built 10 enclosed malls in total and gave up on the malls in Hays and St. Joseph during planning and construction. Only three of their malls were still healthy in 2000, and only one of them is still healthy in 2021. CBL did a few good things at the start, but their renovation of the mall was rather cheap compared to the renovations Simon, Macerich, and GGP/Brookfield perform on their nicer properties. They then sold 50% ownership in their top malls and took out some hefty loans to avoid bankruptcy in the 2010s. Oak Park has one of those loans and it’s probably going to mature in the near future. They defaulted on three malls now who had loans from that era, the most recent being Park Plaza in Little Rock. Both ownership groups also completely dropped the ball. Town center has changed ownerships 3 to 4 times now and nobody has ever taken advantage of that and the fact that Oak Park has Nordstrom to bring in better stores before they were grabbed up by Leawood. When Nordstrom inevitably leaves, and I believe they’ll be open on the Plaza in 2023 when they go pull the weeds on the construction site, there isn’t much they can do to fill that spot. JCP isn’t far from joining Wards and Sears in the history books, and Dillard’s should consolidate the two stores into one building as it is. The men’s store is outdated and filthy. Just two years ago I had people on city data telling me that Independence Center had no chance of kicking the bucket and it has hemorrhaged so many high-quality tenants since then. While it is true that Oak Park has lost a large number of stores over the past 10 years due to retail bankruptcies, it’s also true that high-quality tenants are no longer opening in the mall and that others have just point-blank left.

Crocs, Body Shop, Panera, Yankee Candles, Lacoste, Banana Republic, Talbots, Jos. a Banks, Dairy Queen, J.crew, Soma, Apricot Lane, Starbucks, Ann Taylor, and Nordstrom all left because of weak sales in the market or specificity at Oak Park.

Justice, Body Central, Bebe, The Foundry, The Limited, Wet Seal, RadioShack, DEB, Vanity (which never opened), Teavana, The Walking Company, NY&Co, Microsoft (did anyone shop there?), Brookstone, Crazy 8, and Payless no longer exist. Three of the spaces have been filled by some of the last national tenants to come to the mall, Vans, Shoe Department, Trade Home, Altar’d State, and Dry Goods. Three of those stores were really good grabs, but Dry Goods and Altar’d State have now saturated the market with multiple stores and the Oak Park locations are no longer the draw they were 3-5 years ago.

Gap left in a leasing dispute, but would likely be gone at this point regardless.

American Girl, Swarovski, and Abercrombie Kids have closed most of their retail operations across the board post pandemic, but still exist at this time. Swarovski closed before they put this in motion, and they’ve sent closed on the Plaza as well.

What other stores does the mall risk losing? The following companies are all in rough financial shape right now; JCPenney, Aldo, Chico’s, White House Black Market, Maurice's, XXI, Express, Victoria’s Secret (who funnily enough bailed on Town Center last year), GameStop, Abercrombie, Tradehome, and Hallmark.

On top of this, several chains like Maurices, Buckle, Claire’s, and GAP Inc. have made it clear that they want out of enclosed malls and have been relocating stores to strip malls, power centers, and lifestyle centers. Some of these chains were already making these moves, but the pandemic has definitely accelerated that pace as these outdoor Shopping Center is tended to avoid being closed and locked down. Even in small markets, I’ve noticed that Claire’s, Bath & Body, Hallmark, Rue21, Kay, Riddle’s, Buckle, Hibbett Sports, and Maurice's have been bailing on malls for open-air storefronts. Payless and Christopher & Banks were both bailing on malls for strip malls long before their bankruptcies as well. Really, The only companies that really need these large enclosed malls anymore are the ones that have not been able to figure out another path of operations. Stores like Icing, Lolly & Pops, Auntie Anne’s, Yankee Candle, and even XXI have found it hard to exist in even some of the nations premier outdoor centers.

Do I think that Oak Park will be gone and closed in five years? No, but I have a feeling we’re going to see an increase in stores not renewing their leases the minute Nordstrom leaves. Independence Center dying slowly like Metro North and the Topeka and West Wichita malls rather than rapidly like Bannister, Ward Parkway, or Chesterfield over in STL makes me think that Oak Park will chug on in a state of slow decline for another 10 years before it starts to get really bad. However, the ceiling situation could speed that up significantly.
earthling
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Re: Oak Park Mall

Post by earthling »

If it doesn't sell, I don't see it holding much relevance... not to the degree it used to. If it does sell, who knows what could happen. The options are all over the place with mall conversions and it's a hot thing now. Not a time to be stuck in the last century for investors. Plaza owners need to take notice too. Invest into this century or limp along into the past.
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Re: Oak Park Mall

Post by mgsports »

Maybe get a Grocery store or chain not in area.
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Re: Oak Park Mall

Post by empires228 »

mgsports wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:21 pm Maybe get a Grocery store or chain not in area.
The area has already had several grocery chains and they have decided to focus on the 95th and Antioch area. Hyvee and Aldi are already down the street, HyVee has another store at 87th and Pflumm, Hen House has a store at College and Quivera, and there’s a long empty Dillons at 75th and Quivera. When it comes to pulling other new chains into the neighborhood that aren’t grocery stores, I don’t think CBL has that power at this point. They pulled in vans several years ago, who then also opened on the plaza and legends nulling that pull. Altar’d State, Evereve, and Dry Goods also went on to open locations outside of Oak Park. There aren’t many chains left that KC doesn’t have. They can’t backfill the mall space with like a TJ Maxx or Ulta like other malls have because those chains are already in the mall area. They could eliminate a ton of vacant space by moving stores around and opening an Old Navy, similar to how they backfilled vacant stores when H&M and XXI moved in, but GAP Inc. Has publicly announced that they are trying to get out of malls. They recently relocated Topeka, they are in the process of closing out town east in Wichita for a new off-mall store, and a friend who is helping with that move said that they’re looking to move the Independence store out to Adams Dairy Landing, possibly the old GAP Outlet. Buckle has already been proactive in KS getting out of older malls. They’ve moved their stores in Topeka, Garden City, and in the west mall in Wichita so far. They have plans for new stores off-Mall in Dodge City and Hays.
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Re: Oak Park Mall

Post by mgsports »

Something like Sky Zone,Pizza Ranch,Top Golf.
Last edited by mgsports on Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oak Park Mall

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TJMAXX and More is across the Street from Mall and Steinmart space still available same with former Toysrus and Sports Authority spaces. Marshall's,Off Broadway,Famous Footwear,Urban Outfitters,Green Market,Big Lots,General Dollar,Dollar, General,Five Below,BAM,Family Dollar among stores In area that's not near by. Not in area but still in business Mejier,BJ's Wearhouse and others. Amazon might be coming to area. Groceries Stores lot nearby not In KC area and even if get one location for Ramey Price Cutter and yes Target,Academy Sports and Outdoors,,Costco,Sam's Club,stores in Mall,Homegoods,Dollar Tree and so on sell Groceries. Half Price Books but might be relocating In same area on Metcalf. Menards former Kohls if Quktrip wasn't their.
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Re: Oak Park Mall

Post by jbean3535 »

AME Golf & Brew is coming to Oak Park Mall this September to the former Microsoft Store space.

https://shawneemissionpost.com/2022/07/ ... ew-150092/

I'll be the first to say, "what?". This seems like an odd location without it having an outside entrance. With them only having 2 simulators, it sounds like a bar first, social golfing experience second.
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Re: Oak Park Mall

Post by Cratedigger »

I am blown away by how many golf/putt putt bars there are in KC
empires228
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Re: Oak Park Mall

Post by empires228 »

Better than nothing I guess. Meanwhile, Towne East in Wichita is landing Daily Thread and Earthbound, both stores with no presence at Oak Park. Simon is also renovating Towne East, which was last updated alongside Oak Park. CBL really needs to do something about the water-scared ceilings and tired carpeting at Oak Park to make the mall look fresh again.
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Re: Oak Park Mall Update

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empires228 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:56 pm
jbean3535 wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:12 am
empires228 wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:28 pm

They're also closing at malls far more successful like the St. Louis Galleria, Chandler Fashion Center, and Flatirons Crossing.
I understand that. But it doesn't discount the fact that it's another major (area-exclusive) retailer that's pulling out.
At the moment, the only "exclusive" stores left at Oak Park are Abercrombie, Oakley, Eddie Bauer, Fossil, Lush, and Lego. Build-a-Bear has two other locations, Hollister has Legends now, there's four other H&M stores, four other XXI, 4 other American Eagle, 3 other Altar'd State, two other Dillard's, one other Coach (Independence closed last year), three other Barnes & Noble (Independence closed last month), and one other Dry Goods. All of the other stores that a mall of this size would have in STL or Denver are at Town Center Plaza including Pottery Barn, Apple, RH, The Container Store, and then you have the ones that left Oak Park for TCP like GAP, Banana Republic, J.Crew. Talbots, and Jos. A Banks.
Visited Oak Park Mall today, Fossil has closed permanently.

A shame. I enjoyed having one in the metro. Would love it if the Plaza picks them up somehow
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Re: Oak Park Mall Update

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 »

Cratedigger wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 6:36 pm
empires228 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:56 pm
jbean3535 wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:12 am

I understand that. But it doesn't discount the fact that it's another major (area-exclusive) retailer that's pulling out.
At the moment, the only "exclusive" stores left at Oak Park are Abercrombie, Oakley, Eddie Bauer, Fossil, Lush, and Lego. Build-a-Bear has two other locations, Hollister has Legends now, there's four other H&M stores, four other XXI, 4 other American Eagle, 3 other Altar'd State, two other Dillard's, one other Coach (Independence closed last year), three other Barnes & Noble (Independence closed last month), and one other Dry Goods. All of the other stores that a mall of this size would have in STL or Denver are at Town Center Plaza including Pottery Barn, Apple, RH, The Container Store, and then you have the ones that left Oak Park for TCP like GAP, Banana Republic, J.Crew. Talbots, and Jos. A Banks.
Visited Oak Park Mall today, Fossil has closed permanently.

A shame. I enjoyed having one in the metro. Would love it if the Plaza picks them up somehow
They had a solid service team there as well, got my battery swapped there because they could actually reseal the watch properly. Shame they closed, but agreed, they would be a perfect fit for the plaza
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Re: Oak Park Mall Update

Post by empires228 »

Cratedigger wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 6:36 pm
empires228 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:56 pm
jbean3535 wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:12 am

I understand that. But it doesn't discount the fact that it's another major (area-exclusive) retailer that's pulling out.
At the moment, the only "exclusive" stores left at Oak Park are Abercrombie, Oakley, Eddie Bauer, Fossil, Lush, and Lego. Build-a-Bear has two other locations, Hollister has Legends now, there's four other H&M stores, four other XXI, 4 other American Eagle, 3 other Altar'd State, two other Dillard's, one other Coach (Independence closed last year), three other Barnes & Noble (Independence closed last month), and one other Dry Goods. All of the other stores that a mall of this size would have in STL or Denver are at Town Center Plaza including Pottery Barn, Apple, RH, The Container Store, and then you have the ones that left Oak Park for TCP like GAP, Banana Republic, J.Crew. Talbots, and Jos. A Banks.
Visited Oak Park Mall today, Fossil has closed permanently.

A shame. I enjoyed having one in the metro. Would love it if the Plaza picks them up somehow

I think Fossil knows better. The writing has been on the wall for upscale retail in KC for a while… I fully expect ALDO, Johnston & Murphy, Oakley, Abercrombie, Evereve, White House Black Market, and Chico’s to exit Oak Park as soon their leases expire too, much as American Girl, Talbots, Jos a Banks, Ann Taylor, J. Crew, Banana Republic, and Swarovski did before them and Nordstrom attempted to do. The “real housewives of Leawood” crowd doesn’t even leave Dillard’s to go to Nordstrom at Oak Park and the malls demographic shifts hard to rowdy teens and young adults in the afternoons. CBL is still doing the bare minimum upkeep and their leasing efforts have only brought in chains that usually locate in small towns (Riddles and Tradehome) or lower end malls (Versona). The St. Louis Galleria is struggling with a lot of the same problems with many of their high end stores having moved over, or closed in favor of the Plaza Frontenac branches and the only thing Brookfield has been able to get to go in there was a mega Foot Locker concept with literally 0% interest from national chains in permanent replacements for stores like RH, Papyrus, and Janie & Jack that have been vacant for 3-4 years now (I know the leasing manager for the mall). CBL (owner of Oak Park) meanwhile owns three tanking malls in St. Louis and one healthy one. I wouldn’t even think that Fossill would relocate to Town Center where the north side of the property is doing fairly poorly and maintenance on the sidewalks, landscaping, statues/fountains, and parking lot has gone to hell.
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