Flintlock Flyover is Open

Talk about the ever expanding north side of KC.
SWFan
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Flintlock Flyover is Open

Post by SWFan »

Flintlock Flyover opened yesterday. This weekend I walked down there and could tell it was ready. The road was all striped. They still had some median work to do and none of the sidewalks had been done yet so expect construction to continue for months yet.
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Re: Flintlock Flyover is Open

Post by maison rustique »

What a disaster this thing is! We can't make a turn onto Liberty Drive from our street (which has no other outlet). It was a complete standstill on Liberty Drive this morning. This city really needs to get some decent people in the planning department. And then listen to them.
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Re: Flintlock Flyover is Open

Post by flyingember »

maison rustique wrote:What a disaster this thing is! We can't make a turn onto Liberty Drive from our street (which has no other outlet). It was a complete standstill on Liberty Drive this morning. This city really needs to get some decent people in the planning department. And then listen to them.
Bent Oaks? That exits onto Flintlock.
The other two neighborhoods in that area have 5 outlets each.
No sure where you live but nothing sounds like that description of being around that area.
I'll assume Bent Oaks.

The stated purpose of the flyover was to *increase* traffic in the area. Not kidding. Wait until another 30k people are added to Liberty and one of their major routes is right by your home. I think the major retail development to your south is back on too. Not 100% certain though on this.

S liberty parkway opens up 3000 acres once finished (in 2014?). That's the same size as Shoal Creek give or take

The failure was a developer to make any development with a single exit and design it so a second one couldn't be built. And then for any resident to assume traffic would stay at 1990 levels forever

You now live along a major alternative route from KC to Independence (once S Liberty Parkway is completed)


As an aside, you're complaining about traffic on the first day of school. And right after hundreds of kids were moved to a new school their parents didn't have to go to last year with the grade changes Wait two weeks and see if its still bad
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Re: Flintlock Flyover is Open

Post by maison rustique »

The traffic was at 7:30 am--before there was any school activity at Alexander Doniphan. Traffic was backed up as far up Liberty Drive (toward 152) as we could see, down past our neighborhood near High/Marvel.

See my post in the other thread. We had no idea any of this was happening when we bought our property 4 years ago. It had all been decided long before we knew we were moving to Missouri. No disclosure was made when we bought our house.
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Re: Flintlock Flyover is Open

Post by flyingember »

maison rustique wrote:The traffic was at 7:30 am--before there was any school activity at Alexander Doniphan. Traffic was backed up as far up Liberty Drive (toward 152) as we could see, down past our neighborhood near High/Marvel.

See my post in the other thread. We had no idea any of this was happening when we bought our property 4 years ago. It had all been decided long before we knew we were moving to Missouri. No disclosure was made when we bought our house.
Sounds like middle school traffic. Near High Drive? If Snowdrop that intersection has a light for access. I know it well. The other options in that area have alternatives, either via Kings Highway or through Canterbury. The last neighborhood around I could see it being hard to turn out of if people were rude.

Your realtor did a very poor job it sounds like. South Liberty Parkway was planned back in 2004. The Flintlock Flyover was planned in 2008. No realtor worth anything saw 3000 more acres of homes and did anything but learn more.

Incidently, here's phase 2 of S. Liberty Parkway. Currently planned for 2014 funding
http://www.ci.liberty.mo.us/bids.aspx?bidID=41

Whitehall Station shows up currently as 2014 as well.
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Re: Flintlock Flyover is Open

Post by maison rustique »

Just sent you a message with more info on location.

Our realtor had only been in Missouri herself for about a year, though I do feel she should have known more about what was happening here. I can't say for other states, but in California, if there is development planned within x number of miles of any property (or farther if it will affect traffic flow near the property), the seller must disclose that information with all the documentation from the city (or county or state). I've discovered other things that I find lacking here--no inspections required as they are in California. Don't get me started on the deplorable state of healthcare here. ;-)
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Re: Flintlock Flyover is Open

Post by shinatoo »

maison rustique wrote:Just sent you a message with more info on location.

Our realtor had only been in Missouri herself for about a year, though I do feel she should have known more about what was happening here. I can't say for other states, but in California, if there is development planned within x number of miles of any property (or farther if it will affect traffic flow near the property), the seller must disclose that information with all the documentation from the city (or county or state). I've discovered other things that I find lacking here--no inspections required as they are in California. Don't get me started on the deplorable state of healthcare here. ;-)
Since when is a homeowner in any state required to be informed about any development near their home? Are you saying that if I sell my home the state should require me to tell the potential buyer about ANY development in "X" (pretty vague) number of miles, and be liable if there is one that I missed. How would I even know that? And if you tell me I should go to the planning commission and find out, they I will tell you that's exactly what you should have done. Plus plans are just plans, there are tons of developments that get planned and nothing ever happens or they get changed. You buy or build out in a greenfield, it's on you to do discovery on what is planned on being built around you.

I'm calling bullshit on this one. Prove that California requires this or retire your argument.
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Re: Flintlock Flyover is Open

Post by flyingember »

from the additional info, it sounds like this is a result of poor school district communication relating to the middle school redistricting and the new street

Liberty Drive was the old best way to get to that school from the north. both schools where that street meets Flintlock primarily serve the far side of I-35 now.
now a bunch of parents are still taking Liberty Drive while Flinklock is higher capacity and more direct and has less traffic.
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Re: Flintlock Flyover is Open

Post by maison rustique »

shinatoo wrote:
maison rustique wrote:Just sent you a message with more info on location.

Our realtor had only been in Missouri herself for about a year, though I do feel she should have known more about what was happening here. I can't say for other states, but in California, if there is development planned within x number of miles of any property (or farther if it will affect traffic flow near the property), the seller must disclose that information with all the documentation from the city (or county or state). I've discovered other things that I find lacking here--no inspections required as they are in California. Don't get me started on the deplorable state of healthcare here. ;-)
Since when is a homeowner in any state required to be informed about any development near their home? Are you saying that if I sell my home the state should require me to tell the potential buyer about ANY development in "X" (pretty vague) number of miles, and be liable if there is one that I missed. How would I even know that? And if you tell me I should go to the planning commission and find out, they I will tell you that's exactly what you should have done. Plus plans are just plans, there are tons of developments that get planned and nothing ever happens or they get changed. You buy or build out in a greenfield, it's on you to do discovery on what is planned on being built around you.

I'm calling bullshit on this one. Prove that California requires this or retire your argument.
Well, I don't have time to dig further, but if you will take a look here:

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/ ... 30027.html

you will see that California has more stringent disclosure laws. I can't tell you if it was county or city, but the 2 homes we sold there, we were required to sign disclosures about development in the area that might cause more noise or traffic.
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Re: Flintlock Flyover is Open

Post by shinatoo »

maison rustique wrote:
shinatoo wrote:
maison rustique wrote:Just sent you a message with more info on location.

Our realtor had only been in Missouri herself for about a year, though I do feel she should have known more about what was happening here. I can't say for other states, but in California, if there is development planned within x number of miles of any property (or farther if it will affect traffic flow near the property), the seller must disclose that information with all the documentation from the city (or county or state). I've discovered other things that I find lacking here--no inspections required as they are in California. Don't get me started on the deplorable state of healthcare here. ;-)
Since when is a homeowner in any state required to be informed about any development near their home? Are you saying that if I sell my home the state should require me to tell the potential buyer about ANY development in "X" (pretty vague) number of miles, and be liable if there is one that I missed. How would I even know that? And if you tell me I should go to the planning commission and find out, they I will tell you that's exactly what you should have done. Plus plans are just plans, there are tons of developments that get planned and nothing ever happens or they get changed. You buy or build out in a greenfield, it's on you to do discovery on what is planned on being built around you.

I'm calling bullshit on this one. Prove that California requires this or retire your argument.
Well, I don't have time to dig further, but if you will take a look here:

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/ ... 30027.html

you will see that California has more stringent disclosure laws. I can't tell you if it was county or city, but the 2 homes we sold there, we were required to sign disclosures about development in the area that might cause more noise or traffic.
Nothing in that link that says anything about anything other than what you have experienced on that property while you lived there.
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Re: Flintlock Flyover is Open

Post by Joe Smith »

The simple fact that you even bought a house in Liberty shows you didn't do your homework as well. It's a well-known traffic nightmare. Liberty's city planning department sucks.
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Re: Flintlock Flyover is Open

Post by zlohban »

1) Liberty Drive is what used to be called an "Alternative Hi way" it has always been busy and used to be my main route to downtown before S Withers was extended.

2) The Flyover has been dreamed, written and talked about in the schools and businesses for over a decade. Common knowledge posted on the city website.

3) I can always get to the heart of downtown and parked long before, in shorter time than my JoCo work mates.

4) I was in heaven when I timed the trip to 152 and Flintlock at 5 minutes going 3 miles non-stop from my garage.

5) Thank you Liberty and Kansas City for the great planning, I love the fly-over and will travel it daily.

6) Thanks to just Liberty for assuring that it's growth is cohesive from neighborhood to neighborhood leaving few if any major gaps in development from old areas to new. The traffic? Well it's traffic. Deal with it.
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Re: Flintlock Flyover is Open

Post by KCMax »

shinatoo wrote:
maison rustique wrote:Just sent you a message with more info on location.

Our realtor had only been in Missouri herself for about a year, though I do feel she should have known more about what was happening here. I can't say for other states, but in California, if there is development planned within x number of miles of any property (or farther if it will affect traffic flow near the property), the seller must disclose that information with all the documentation from the city (or county or state). I've discovered other things that I find lacking here--no inspections required as they are in California. Don't get me started on the deplorable state of healthcare here. ;-)
Since when is a homeowner in any state required to be informed about any development near their home? Are you saying that if I sell my home the state should require me to tell the potential buyer about ANY development in "X" (pretty vague) number of miles, and be liable if there is one that I missed. How would I even know that? And if you tell me I should go to the planning commission and find out, they I will tell you that's exactly what you should have done. Plus plans are just plans, there are tons of developments that get planned and nothing ever happens or they get changed. You buy or build out in a greenfield, it's on you to do discovery on what is planned on being built around you.

I'm calling bullshit on this one. Prove that California requires this or retire your argument.
http://ocpropertynews.com/seller-disclosures/
Potential seller disclosures would include such things as leaky windows, noisy neighbors, major major construction, possible noise from motor vehicles and airplanes, or building development projects nearby.
http://www.zillowblog.com/2011-11-15/5- ... sclosures/
1. What is a disclosure?
Disclosure statements, which can come in a variety of forms, are the buyer’s opportunity to learn as much as they can about the property and the seller’s experience in it.

Potential seller disclosures range from knowledge of leaky windows to loud neighbors to information about a major construction or development project nearby. Not only do disclosure documents serve to inform buyers, they can protect the sellers from future legal action. It is the seller’s chance to lay out anything that can negatively affect the value, usefulness or enjoyment of the property.
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Re: Flintlock Flyover is Open

Post by maison rustique »

Thank you, KC Max. :-)
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Re: Flintlock Flyover is Open

Post by shinatoo »

maison rustique wrote:Thank you, KC Max. :-)
There is nothing in any of those links that state the seller is required to disclose anything about nearby development.
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Re: Flintlock Flyover is Open

Post by maison rustique »

Potential seller disclosures would include such things as leaky windows, noisy neighbors, major major construction, possible noise from motor vehicles and airplanes, or building development projects nearby.
Read again.
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Re: Flintlock Flyover is Open

Post by zlohban »

I'm calling Bull Sh** on this topic. After driving the new flyover at least 2x a day, sometimes 4x, at 6:30, 7:00, 7:30 and 8:00 AM, and various afternoon times also, NOT ONCE was there a traffic problem, definitely not a problem that would keep one from entering Liberty Drive.
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Re: Flintlock Flyover is Open

Post by maison rustique »

I love that this is a free world where we can all have and express our own opinions. :-) Think what a dull place it would be if we all thought and felt the same way.
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Re: Flintlock Flyover is Open

Post by longviewmo »

Is it really that horrible to have to wait two minutes?
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Re: Flintlock Flyover is Open

Post by shinatoo »

maison rustique wrote:
Potential seller disclosures would include such things as leaky windows, noisy neighbors, major major construction, possible noise from motor vehicles and airplanes, or building development projects nearby.
Read again.
I read it twice. It's just a bloggers advice/opinion, as you can tell by the words "Potential" and "would", instead of "Required" and "Must".

But just because I had 5 minuted to search Google, I found the official "State of California Department of Real Estate Disclosures in Real Property Transactions Sixth Edition". http://www.dre.ca.gov/files/pdf/re6.pdf It covers both state and municipal requirements for disclosures. In relation to your original complaint; you are required to disclose if your property is CURRENTLY adjacent to wildlife refuge, land zoned for industrial use, land used for timber harvest, or within one mile of a ordnance range or storage facility.

There is absolutely nothing about knowledge of future developments within "X" number of miles and any traffic it might cause.

If you are going to buy a home in a developing area, expect more development. Learn the difference between opinion and fact. Don't believe everything you read on the internet.
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